Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I can’t help thinking what might have happened if someone on that train just offered the guy a water bottle and the lunch or snack they had in their bag.

On the 1 train during the morning commute in NYC, a homeless guy went around asking for food or money. Someone kindly offered him the yogurt and apple she was bringing to her office for breakfast. The homeless guy was peeved and threw the yogurt and apple down on the floor whereupon the yogurt container broke and splattered. And he was yelling about how he didn't want that kind of food.

I ride the subway everyday to work and when angry nutsos like this show up, people usually leave the car immediately. Nobody wants to sit around and see how unhinged these people can become.
This guy who was in a chokehold already had 2 records of assaulting women. Most people get up and leave the presence of people like this because of the possibility that he/she chooses you to vent their spleen. Most of us are sick of having to go out of our way to avoid them. I think the guy who put him in a chokehold was probably sick of seeing this tyranny of the homeless over the MTA like most of us are.
Back in the 80s and 90s, the Guardian Angels rode the subway, you could tell who they were by their outfit and how buff they were. They just quietly stood around. Nobody messed around when they were in the car. We really need them back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Society has basically washed its hands of dealing with violent mentally ill and homeless people, and individuals are left to defend themselves. In this new paradigm, the homeless and mentally ill cannot be locked up, but if you misjudge a situation and hurt them, you will go to jail. I'm sure the Marine will go to jail. But if the situation were reversed and the mentally ill man killed the Marine, no one would be talking about this at all. We are a truly sick society.

How most people deal with this is by moving as far away from this problem as possible. We pay out the nose for homes in "safe" neighborhoods (no section 8 housing nearby), and to send our kids to private school (no underperforiming trouble makers who suck 90% of the teacher's attention).

We find ways to inoculate our daily lives from the other half and the upside-down rules of navigating that half.

When actually face to face with members of that other half, we just get up and leave like most people on the subway do when faced with a homeless nutjob and forget about that unpleasant experience promptly.

Americans talk the talk about DEI and social justice but do not walk it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society has basically washed its hands of dealing with violent mentally ill and homeless people, and individuals are left to defend themselves. In this new paradigm, the homeless and mentally ill cannot be locked up, but if you misjudge a situation and hurt them, you will go to jail. I'm sure the Marine will go to jail. But if the situation were reversed and the mentally ill man killed the Marine, no one would be talking about this at all. We are a truly sick society.

The marine will not go to jail. In fact, I doubt he will be indicted.

it’s NYC, of course he will be indicted. Some grandstanding DA will indict this ham sandwich ASAP.

This is not the proverbial ham sandwich. They’re going to put this in grand jury and call multiple passengers from the train, including the people that called 911 and probably the people that helped Penny; play the complete video from the train (not just what has been released thus far), which likely will show the guy acting aggressive and threatening as opposed to just begging for water or food; and an indictment will not be returned.

Here are some of the witnesses:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that people think the Marine should know the "necessary" amount of time to choke someone and would know what amount is "more than necessary." Perhaps I don't have as much experience choking people as the former prosecutor has, where he can be precise when he finds himself needing to subdue someone. You know, one of those everyday situations where you fear for your life and have to choke someone for just the right amount of time to make them pass out but not die.

Anyone who took fifth grade level biology knows that a human can’t live without food for three weeks, water for three days, and air for three minutes. If he maintained the chokehold for between seven and fifteen minutes as some witnesses have reported, that is beyond excessive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society has basically washed its hands of dealing with violent mentally ill and homeless people, and individuals are left to defend themselves. In this new paradigm, the homeless and mentally ill cannot be locked up, but if you misjudge a situation and hurt them, you will go to jail. I'm sure the Marine will go to jail. But if the situation were reversed and the mentally ill man killed the Marine, no one would be talking about this at all. We are a truly sick society.

The marine will not go to jail. In fact, I doubt he will be indicted.

He likely will. Many such cases.

Back in 1651, Thomas Hobbes wrote a massively influential book that outlined social contract theory as we conceive of it today. It said that people voluntarily surrender their right to protect themselves to the government, who promises to protect them in exchange for their compliance.

Our government no longer views itself as needing to protect normal, law abiding, sane citizens from criminals or insane people. While I can't condone extra judicial homicide, I also don't know how long we can continue like this with rampant crime, mass shootings, etc and our society continuing to function. Think of those Uvalde parents, literally cuffed by the police as they stood outside the school listening to their children being murdered. This cannot continue.

100%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can’t help thinking what might have happened if someone on that train just offered the guy a water bottle and the lunch or snack they had in their bag.

On the 1 train during the morning commute in NYC, a homeless guy went around asking for food or money. Someone kindly offered him the yogurt and apple she was bringing to her office for breakfast. The homeless guy was peeved and threw the yogurt and apple down on the floor whereupon the yogurt container broke and splattered. And he was yelling about how he didn't want that kind of food.

I ride the subway everyday to work and when angry nutsos like this show up, people usually leave the car immediately. Nobody wants to sit around and see how unhinged these people can become.
This guy who was in a chokehold already had 2 records of assaulting women. Most people get up and leave the presence of people like this because of the possibility that he/she chooses you to vent their spleen. Most of us are sick of having to go out of our way to avoid them. I think the guy who put him in a chokehold was probably sick of seeing this tyranny of the homeless over the MTA like most of us are.
Back in the 80s and 90s, the Guardian Angels rode the subway, you could tell who they were by their outfit and how buff they were. They just quietly stood around. Nobody messed around when they were in the car. We really need them back.

+1.
Today a homeless man on the street asked me for food. He was polite and elderly. I gave him some of the groceries I was carrying.
This is a very different scenario from an aggressive, mentality unstable person in an enclosed space with no escape option. Yes, we should be kind and not turn our backs on those in need. We should also be vigilant and aware of our surroundings at all times. I am the mother of young children and don’t want them orphaned because I tried to help someone who is beyond help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A different former prosecutor here, I have watched the video and I think the former Marine gets convicted of whatever form of homicide he is properly charged with. He choked the guy several minutes beyond the guy going limp and unresponsive, while bystanders filmed and urged him to let go. The case is almost exactly the same as Floyd, .

To me there is a huge difference in my expectations for the police to NOT "accidentally" kneel on a guy til he's dead, and a random passenger on the subway subduing a passenger.

Put me on that jury, I'm not convicting this guy.

- I only vote Dem

Ditto. I am a New Yorker and a registered Democrat. That marine is not guilty in my eyes. But yes, I am very sad for the diseased man. Our system failed him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He’d been arrested 42 times.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12045021/Eric-Adams-starts-war-words-AOC-Jordan-Neely-death.html

And? “Been arrested multiple times” doesn’t excuse murder. That’s not how the law works.

Hope the “Marine” rots in jail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope the guy has great witnesses and a jury with common sense of it come to that

I would jump at the chance to be on his jury. Lock him up and throw away the key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’d been arrested 42 times.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12045021/Eric-Adams-starts-war-words-AOC-Jordan-Neely-death.html

And? “Been arrested multiple times” doesn’t excuse murder. That’s not how the law works.

Hope the “Marine” rots in jail.

precisely why our society is so broke. When ppl say go woke, go broke, they used to be referring to finances. Now, it just means society in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’d been arrested 42 times.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12045021/Eric-Adams-starts-war-words-AOC-Jordan-Neely-death.html

And? “Been arrested multiple times” doesn’t excuse murder. That’s not how the law works.

Hope the “Marine” rots in jail.

Your “kindness” isnt showing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A different former prosecutor here, I have watched the video and I think the former Marine gets convicted of whatever form of homicide he is properly charged with. He choked the guy several minutes beyond the guy going limp and unresponsive, while bystanders filmed and urged him to let go. The case is almost exactly the same as Floyd, .

To me there is a huge difference in my expectations for the police to NOT "accidentally" kneel on a guy til he's dead, and a random passenger on the subway subduing a passenger.

Put me on that jury, I'm not convicting this guy.

- I only vote Dem

Yeah I guarantee the prosecutors don’t want to go anywhere near this landmine. The highly decorated Marine isn’t going to be convicted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society has basically washed its hands of dealing with violent mentally ill and homeless people, and individuals are left to defend themselves. In this new paradigm, the homeless and mentally ill cannot be locked up, but if you misjudge a situation and hurt them, you will go to jail. I'm sure the Marine will go to jail. But if the situation were reversed and the mentally ill man killed the Marine, no one would be talking about this at all. We are a truly sick society.

The marine will not go to jail. In fact, I doubt he will be indicted.

it’s NYC, of course he will be indicted. Some grandstanding DA will indict this ham sandwich ASAP.

This is not the proverbial ham sandwich. They’re going to put this in grand jury and call multiple passengers from the train, including the people that called 911 and probably the people that helped Penny; play the complete video from the train (not just what has been released thus far), which likely will show the guy acting aggressive and threatening as opposed to just begging for water or food; and an indictment will not be returned.

Here are some of the witnesses:

If you actually bothered to read the article it does not support your position. One witness wasn’t even on the train car, and the other witness said other people on the train reported Neely was threatening people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’d been arrested 42 times.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12045021/Eric-Adams-starts-war-words-AOC-Jordan-Neely-death.html

And? “Been arrested multiple times” doesn’t excuse murder. That’s not how the law works.

Hope the “Marine” rots in jail.

My guess is that it's easy for you to pretend this couldn't happen to you or the people you love. You cannot relate to the people who've been left to defend themselves from rampant violence with nothing but their bare hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A different former prosecutor here, I have watched the video and I think the former Marine gets convicted of whatever form of homicide he is properly charged with. He choked the guy several minutes beyond the guy going limp and unresponsive, while bystanders filmed and urged him to let go. The case is almost exactly the same as Floyd, the only difference being that while Floyd barely made any trouble for police this guy was apparently yelling for food and water. Nobody there knew his arrest history it cannot possibly be relevant to whether the Marine’s actions were justified - they were not justified to the level that he took them. Whether the Marine has PTSD or we find out he has other history that might explain his motivation to choke the guy much longer than necessary only time will tell.

I can’t help thinking what might have happened if someone on that train just offered the guy a water bottle and the lunch or snack they had in their bag.

You’re not a prosecutor. If someone offered him water, the response may very well have been him unleashing a torrent of verbal and/or physical abuse on him.

So really there was no choice but to kill him.

Nice strawman

How is it a straw man if it is exactly what happened?