Holding my boundary. Let him be mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, can your MIL handle your DD solo for a few hours every weekend? That way, you and DH both get solo time at once, and the rest of the weekend you spend together as a family? I agree solo time is important, but when both parents work FT, there is not a lot of quality time during the week, so weekends are precious.

I also don’t think your solo time should be spent on home organization or grocery shopping or working. Do the errands together, the three of you. And keep weekends free of work (or alternatively designate 3 weeknights to keep free of work). Spend your solo time in r&r mode.

I said the same as above. Look around the grocery store and Target on a Saturday morning, it's all kids with their parents. Why waste your time alone doing what could be done with the kid. My kids all loved going to Target, by the way. And do grocery delivery. Order school crap from Amazon. This doesn't have to be as hard as OP is making it out to be. But she really seems to want to maximize the victimhood. Her precious Saturday morning time is being squandered this way.

So let dad take over the shopping and child errands and take his daughter shopping with him. Done.

Sure why not. But op probably realizes she already gets the better shift maybe she thought it was the right thing to do. The morning person has a longer day. There are other ways to get the chores done so it’s weird that op wastes her “me” time doing them. Get the groceries delivered, Amazon, but she is a glutton for punishment and takes the hard road. None of this makes a lot of sense.

I agree and wonder if this is a troll? If not it is really sad, for all 3 of them.

OP, your anger will not vanish when you file for divorce, I don't think. I don't think the current situation is sustainable, one or both of you is an affair waiting to happen but I think the same feelings will be there even after the split. You said you think so too.

Can you table the issues re: your obligations and try to go back in your history to find some of the roots of the rage and some of the patterns that are being replicated? Maybe journal or find a support group or a CBT or DBT therapist that will help you regulate some of your reactivity? Maybe a meditation practice and a book like Wherever You Go, There You Are?

There have been a few questions about your childhood experiences but your posts are just about DH and everyday obligations and chores. What makes you feel connected to yourself and others? What gives you joy? When do you laugh? You seem to have a very Calvinist approach to life yet it makes you miserable, yet you do not adopt other common approaches. It's a bit confusing. If you did outsource so the "burdens" would be gone, what would your identity be? Where would the anxiety focus then? If there was a cleaning service, a weekend babysitter, Amazon and grocery delivery? Are there any times that you are not "achieving" - cleaning, running errands that are optional, exercising, enriching kid, etc? What did you and DH do for dates before you were married?

You did not mention friends, family traditions, time with neighbors, etc. Chores, $ and power struggles seems to occupy so much of your sense of self and your time, when you could outsource and are financially stable. Did your family have issues around money? You mention DH losing one job, common, but now you don't trust him to be employed? There is a lot of anxiety around a lot of issues, a lot of time alone ruminating, all of that stokes the anger. But, if God forbid, DH's plane crashed, would you still rage about having to keep the house afloat financially and carry the insurance? Most of us take those things for granted, the weight and resentment you put on them speak to core wounds. Cutting DH loose is not going to resolve any of that, you need to do that introspection and processing.

[Anonymous]

OP, you said you work in a law firm. Doesn't that require some weekend work? Where does that fit in with all of the chores that could be outsourced but are not? What do Sundays look like?

I don't know anyone who is in BigLaw with a young kid who spends hours running errands, does not order groceries, does all their own cleaning, works out, etc. Do you socialize with friends, colleagues, neighbors? Your description is confusing about work demands and the degree of isolation you all seem to have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone lecturing OP as if she hasn't tried multiple solutions with this guy? Did you catch the list where they wrote out chores and he included filling out their newborn's birth certificate? I'm not saying I have the answer, but it's bizarre reading "well you just have to say/do/work on X" over and over again. She has, it hasn't worked, and if she says nothing, he takes advantage.

It's much more useful to hear from the PP(s) who's marriages have come back from these situations than from people admonishing OP to do one more thing.

I still can’t stop laughing at padding his list with “managing the Hulu and Netflix passwords.” He should be embarrassed.

Actually they seem quite similar to me, both very defensive, unable to admit fault, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that you have to set clear expectations and boundaries with a spouse who doesn’t proactively parent and would leave the work to you unless you said something.

There is a lot of pressure for women to pick up the slack and take on more work at home to keep the peace. It’s entirely fair to request an even distribution of labor at home and to not want to be taken advantage of.

Also, I don’t think real concerns over consistent inequalities with division of labor should be reduced to “tantrums” or “bean counting”. Flexibility is so important but both partners need to be offering it and it shouldn’t result in one partner continuously taking on the bulk of the work. That’s a pattern of behavior and it only leads to resentment and frustration

Op here. This. He doesn’t proactively parent. Or proactively do things around the house. If I don’t ask him to do things, he’s satisfied to sit and either catch up on work or watch tv. Then he grumbles or half asses the task.

Recent example/ I asked him to please put away the dish towels as I folded laundry. He put them on top of
The stove. Not in the drawer next to the stove. Jsut on top of the stove. Go ahead and flame me All you want but the weaponized incompetence and “I’ll don’t best she will do the rest” attitude is GRATING. It makes me feel taken advantage of and used. And that he feels his time is so much more important that he can’t be bothered. I wanted a partner out of marriage. Not an intern waiting for assignments. At least an intern would do things more than half assed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, any socializing with other couples, other families, date nights?

Is there anything you still like about him?

If you got cleaning and childcare for a few hours on the weekend, do you think it would be possible for the 2 of you to reconnect?

Do either or both of you come from divorced families or one with a SAHM? You don't seem to have a model for being a team as a family unit, I'm a bit confused. Do you ever run errands all together, cook together, go to the park together?

Do you think your contempt for him is linked to his lower earning status? Were you happy and connected prior to the baby? Have you been away together even for a night since she was born to get couple time?

Dh comes from divorced family. His family was wealth during childhood, his mother did not work, and she outsourced everything. She did not cook, she did not clean. She also was not warm. She is not an option for childcare. She is not *that type of grandma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that you have to set clear expectations and boundaries with a spouse who doesn’t proactively parent and would leave the work to you unless you said something.

There is a lot of pressure for women to pick up the slack and take on more work at home to keep the peace. It’s entirely fair to request an even distribution of labor at home and to not want to be taken advantage of.

Also, I don’t think real concerns over consistent inequalities with division of labor should be reduced to “tantrums” or “bean counting”. Flexibility is so important but both partners need to be offering it and it shouldn’t result in one partner continuously taking on the bulk of the work. That’s a pattern of behavior and it only leads to resentment and frustration

Op here. This. He doesn’t proactively parent. Or proactively do things around the house. If I don’t ask him to do things, he’s satisfied to sit and either catch up on work or watch tv. Then he grumbles or half asses the task.

Recent example/ I asked him to please put away the dish towels as I folded laundry. He put them on top of
The stove. Not in the drawer next to the stove. Jsut on top of the stove. Go ahead and flame me All you want but the weaponized incompetence and “I’ll don’t best she will do the rest” attitude is GRATING. It makes me feel taken advantage of and used. And that he feels his time is so much more important that he can’t be bothered. I wanted a partner out of marriage. Not an intern waiting for assignments. At least an intern would do things more than half assed.

Please get marriage therapy or your intense focus on details will kill you and his inabilty to focus on details will kill him.

If you've already tried therapy and want to dismiss the idea "because it didn't work," either try again or admit you are both failures are being married because your expections and his expectations are so ill-matched and because you both communicate horribly. And you both are focused on minutiae and keeping score and both have to be right, right, right.

Find a new couples therapist and commit to therapy (and to letting the towels thing just GO) if you want to stay married. I don't actually know why you married each other in the first place. Did you ever love each other? Why do your score-keeping parenting and household chores destroy whatever positives you saw in each other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you and your husband have a sex life? Have you had sex since the 3 year old was born?

Is he a lawyer too?

Were you a SAHM when he lost his job?

Divorce looks really likely for you guys. Unless you get therapy I'm not sure you will be less angry and resentful of an ex-DH.

OP, what was your childhood like? How was your rx with your dad? Do you have issues with authority figures at work? It just feels like there is so much anger and unhappiness and disconnection and resentment. Maybe some patterns are being recreated?

I have never not worked. He made more than me after law school, but I’ve always worked.
Definitely have huge resentment surrounding his period of unemployment. He decided to pursue a passion project after being laid off they takes twice as much time and makes 1/3 of his prior salary. We are not wealthy. If we had more money I would outsource more things like cleaning babysitters for date night etc. I have asked him for years to consider (even apply) for higher paying jobs. He will not. And before I get flamed again, NO I’m not going to be the one to go run for a higher paying job bc I carry the benefits and I need to make sure we are stable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that you have to set clear expectations and boundaries with a spouse who doesn’t proactively parent and would leave the work to you unless you said something.

There is a lot of pressure for women to pick up the slack and take on more work at home to keep the peace. It’s entirely fair to request an even distribution of labor at home and to not want to be taken advantage of.

Also, I don’t think real concerns over consistent inequalities with division of labor should be reduced to “tantrums” or “bean counting”. Flexibility is so important but both partners need to be offering it and it shouldn’t result in one partner continuously taking on the bulk of the work. That’s a pattern of behavior and it only leads to resentment and frustration

Op here. This. He doesn’t proactively parent. Or proactively do things around the house. If I don’t ask him to do things, he’s satisfied to sit and either catch up on work or watch tv. Then he grumbles or half asses the task.

Recent example/ I asked him to please put away the dish towels as I folded laundry. He put them on top of
The stove. Not in the drawer next to the stove. Jsut on top of the stove. Go ahead and flame me All you want but the weaponized incompetence and “I’ll don’t best she will do the rest” attitude is GRATING. It makes me feel taken advantage of and used. And that he feels his time is so much more important that he can’t be bothered. I wanted a partner out of marriage. Not an intern waiting for assignments. At least an intern would do things more than half assed.

Please get marriage therapy or your intense focus on details will kill you and his inabilty to focus on details will kill him.

If you've already tried therapy and want to dismiss the idea "because it didn't work," either try again or admit you are both failures are being married because your expections and his expectations are so ill-matched and because you both communicate horribly. And you both are focused on minutiae and keeping score and both have to be right, right, right.

Find a new couples therapist and commit to therapy (and to letting the towels thing just GO) if you want to stay married. I don't actually know why you married each other in the first place. Did you ever love each other? Why do your score-keeping parenting and household chores destroy whatever positives you saw in each other?

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s hard to not keep score and “bean count” when I look around and can’t figure out what he contributes to make life run easier smoother etc. I don’t see what positives he adds to my life, much of the time. I don’t need him for finances, and it’s not like he is leading the charge re parenting or the home. It’s hard to think of wiping the slate clean.

I was busting my ass working saving money while pregnant and he refused to get out there and try to make more money. I am so resentful for that. I begged him to take a non passion project job to pad our accounts for preparation for baby. I felt like I was thinking about what was best for us and our growing family, and he was only thinking about him. That still feels true today. I don’t know how to just wipe that resentment away. Especially when it keeps Manifesting in different forms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The amount of deflection on this thread makes my head spin. She's not mad that he makes less. She's mad that he's makes less *and*:

- does less around the house and
- does less childcare and
- lets her pick up his slack and finally
- sends ragey texts that she doesn't love her kid

Mess less money, or do less around the house, but not both.

- Single mom who does it all so I know exactly what's involved with doing both

Thank you. This sums up so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, any socializing with other couples, other families, date nights?

Is there anything you still like about him?

If you got cleaning and childcare for a few hours on the weekend, do you think it would be possible for the 2 of you to reconnect?

Do either or both of you come from divorced families or one with a SAHM? You don't seem to have a model for being a team as a family unit, I'm a bit confused. Do you ever run errands all together, cook together, go to the park together?

Do you think your contempt for him is linked to his lower earning status? Were you happy and connected prior to the baby? Have you been away together even for a night since she was born to get couple time?

Dh comes from divorced family. His family was wealth during childhood, his mother did not work, and she outsourced everything. She did not cook, she did not clean. She also was not warm. She is not an option for childcare. She is not *that type of grandma.

I wasn't suggesting your MIL do childcare, just wondering what templates you both bring for what a family looks like. By your description, maybe he will stay because while your home and marriage do not sound warm either, maybe he is used to it? For childcare, I was suggesting hiring help.

Do you work in BigLaw or a different setting? I'm confused that you don't mention weekend work?

Do you socialize as a couple, with couples, with families? Or is it just chores all the time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that you have to set clear expectations and boundaries with a spouse who doesn’t proactively parent and would leave the work to you unless you said something.

There is a lot of pressure for women to pick up the slack and take on more work at home to keep the peace. It’s entirely fair to request an even distribution of labor at home and to not want to be taken advantage of.

Also, I don’t think real concerns over consistent inequalities with division of labor should be reduced to “tantrums” or “bean counting”. Flexibility is so important but both partners need to be offering it and it shouldn’t result in one partner continuously taking on the bulk of the work. That’s a pattern of behavior and it only leads to resentment and frustration

Op here. This. He doesn’t proactively parent. Or proactively do things around the house. If I don’t ask him to do things, he’s satisfied to sit and either catch up on work or watch tv. Then he grumbles or half asses the task.

Recent example/ I asked him to please put away the dish towels as I folded laundry. He put them on top of
The stove. Not in the drawer next to the stove. Jsut on top of the stove. Go ahead and flame me All you want but the weaponized incompetence and “I’ll don’t best she will do the rest” attitude is GRATING. It makes me feel taken advantage of and used. And that he feels his time is so much more important that he can’t be bothered. I wanted a partner out of marriage. Not an intern waiting for assignments. At least an intern would do things more than half assed.

Please get marriage therapy or your intense focus on details will kill you and his inabilty to focus on details will kill him.

If you've already tried therapy and want to dismiss the idea "because it didn't work," either try again or admit you are both failures are being married because your expections and his expectations are so ill-matched and because you both communicate horribly. And you both are focused on minutiae and keeping score and both have to be right, right, right.

Find a new couples therapist and commit to therapy (and to letting the towels thing just GO) if you want to stay married. I don't actually know why you married each other in the first place. Did you ever love each other? Why do your score-keeping parenting and household chores destroy whatever positives you saw in each other?

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s hard to not keep score and “bean count” when I look around and can’t figure out what he contributes to make life run easier smoother etc. I don’t see what positives he adds to my life, much of the time. I don’t need him for finances, and it’s not like he is leading the charge re parenting or the home. It’s hard to think of wiping the slate clean.

I was busting my ass working saving money while pregnant and he refused to get out there and try to make more money. I am so resentful for that. I begged him to take a non passion project job to pad our accounts for preparation for baby. I felt like I was thinking about what was best for us and our growing family, and he was only thinking about him. That still feels true today. I don’t know how to just wipe that resentment away. Especially when it keeps Manifesting in different forms

I honestly do not see any hope for your marriage. Yet, I think you will be equally if not more unhappy after the split. $ is a huge issue for you, you mention it constantly yet seem to be doing ok financially. You don't seem willing to spend to make life easier and less stressful. 2 households is not cheaper and you may have to pay him child support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone lecturing OP as if she hasn't tried multiple solutions with this guy? Did you catch the list where they wrote out chores and he included filling out their newborn's birth certificate? I'm not saying I have the answer, but it's bizarre reading "well you just have to say/do/work on X" over and over again. She has, it hasn't worked, and if she says nothing, he takes advantage.

It's much more useful to hear from the PP(s) who's marriages have come back from these situations than from people admonishing OP to do one more thing.

I still can’t stop laughing at padding his list with “managing the Hulu and Netflix passwords.” He should be embarrassed.

+1. That had been laughing, too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, can your MIL handle your DD solo for a few hours every weekend? That way, you and DH both get solo time at once, and the rest of the weekend you spend together as a family? I agree solo time is important, but when both parents work FT, there is not a lot of quality time during the week, so weekends are precious.

I also don’t think your solo time should be spent on home organization or grocery shopping or working. Do the errands together, the three of you. And keep weekends free of work (or alternatively designate 3 weeknights to keep free of work). Spend your solo time in r&r mode.

I said the same as above. Look around the grocery store and Target on a Saturday morning, it's all kids with their parents. Why waste your time alone doing what could be done with the kid. My kids all loved going to Target, by the way. And do grocery delivery. Order school crap from Amazon. This doesn't have to be as hard as OP is making it out to be. But she really seems to want to maximize the victimhood. Her precious Saturday morning time is being squandered this way.

So let dad take over the shopping and child errands and take his daughter shopping with him. Done.

Sure why not. But op probably realizes she already gets the better shift maybe she thought it was the right thing to do. The morning person has a longer day. There are other ways to get the chores done so it’s weird that op wastes her “me” time doing them. Get the groceries delivered, Amazon, but she is a glutton for punishment and takes the hard road. None of this makes a lot of sense.

I agree and wonder if this is a troll? If not it is really sad, for all 3 of them.

OP, your anger will not vanish when you file for divorce, I don't think. I don't think the current situation is sustainable, one or both of you is an affair waiting to happen but I think the same feelings will be there even after the split. You said you think so too.

Can you table the issues re: your obligations and try to go back in your history to find some of the roots of the rage and some of the patterns that are being replicated? Maybe journal or find a support group or a CBT or DBT therapist that will help you regulate some of your reactivity? Maybe a meditation practice and a book like Wherever You Go, There You Are?

There have been a few questions about your childhood experiences but your posts are just about DH and everyday obligations and chores. What makes you feel connected to yourself and others? What gives you joy? When do you laugh? You seem to have a very Calvinist approach to life yet it makes you miserable, yet you do not adopt other common approaches. It's a bit confusing. If you did outsource so the "burdens" would be gone, what would your identity be? Where would the anxiety focus then? If there was a cleaning service, a weekend babysitter, Amazon and grocery delivery? Are there any times that you are not "achieving" - cleaning, running errands that are optional, exercising, enriching kid, etc? What did you and DH do for dates before you were married?

You did not mention friends, family traditions, time with neighbors, etc. Chores, $ and power struggles seems to occupy so much of your sense of self and your time, when you could outsource and are financially stable. Did your family have issues around money? You mention DH losing one job, common, but now you don't trust him to be employed? There is a lot of anxiety around a lot of issues, a lot of time alone ruminating, all of that stokes the anger. But, if God forbid, DH's plane crashed, would you still rage about having to keep the house afloat financially and carry the insurance? Most of us take those things for granted, the weight and resentment you put on them speak to core wounds. Cutting DH loose is not going to resolve any of that, you need to do that introspection and processing.

Dh asked for the morning shift.

I come from supportive parents, who are still married. My dad was definitely involved and very caring, hands on. My mom was also extremely hands on, and very much a martyr. Interestingly, my mom out earned my dad their entitled marriage.

I love to read, travel, I try occasionally to get to a sat am Zumba type class, and I take my dd often to diff museums and parks during our solo time.

When dh is not here, I often feel more alive. I without question feel a peace and calm come over me. From his energy to literally not picking up after him- I feel like a better version of myself. And that’s a lot to type out but I am being honest.

[Anonymous]

Please divorce him, he’s suffered enough. Money isn’t everything.

[Anonymous]

This thread has gotten so long but why are people flaming OP for holding her husband to a previously agreed upon arrangement for splitting household labor fairly?