Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
If he is scum, any woman sleeping with him is dumb. It doesn't matter when they got him.
If you buy a fresh tomato, you throw it away when it's rotten. You don't get to eat a rotten tomato and feel smart while looking down on whoever bought the rotten one. You are both eating it. That's dumb.
I haven't followed this person in detail, but people are multi-faceted. An adulterer is not entirely scum because no human is. If you make a vow and especially if you have children, it makes sense to try to work on the marriage before giving it up unless there was never a true marriage to begin with and someone lied or omitted information. I'm not really understanding why you have such a need to put the wife down here.
Because she is putting the other woman down for seeing value in her DH. How can't she see that that woman saw what she saw and decided to try to get it for herself? Yes, she lost. But she tried. Yes, she is wicked to try to steal him, but the DH is the heartless person here. Who does that to their family?
Calling that woman dumb is calling herself dumb. The man clearly has some value to both of them.
I don't think this is the same scenario though. The affair woman knows the man is a cheater and still pursues him. The married woman didn't and didn't marry under that premise. Again of course the cheater has some good qualities. That's what was meant by a person is not entirely bad. But it's not the same scenario for both women. You are equalizing them when they are not equal.
So both of them find value in cheaters. They are not so different.
This is America. She can divorce him if cheating is so repulsive. She is still with him because he has value to her. And he has value to the other woman too.
Look, I am not leaving my husband if he cheats. But I am not delusional enough to convince myself that other women are dumb for trying to snatch him. Of course they would want to snatch him. The man can cook, clean take care of the children and still bring good bread home. Plus, sex skills are great. Why wouldn't another woman want that? It's on him to know what is good for him. He will be the only dumb and heartless one if he cheats. Not the woman trying to get something I find very valuable.
I mean, unless he had no value? Then she and I would be dumb to want him.
All of this. It's a different time period and behavior that each person is picking up this man and there are different responsibilities each woman has. While the man has some value, it's obvious that he's going down a bad road and will be more susceptible in the future. This is all the wife is saying.
The person is a liar, compartmentalizer and gaslighter that the original married partner didn't see or that developed over the course of a few decades long marriage--at 28-30 the guy could have been sincere legit and honest at 45-50+ he could have grown entitled after he became wealthy or he could have developed new habits like drinking or been in a complete glut of low self-esteem and/or internal issues that come out in midlife rearing their ugly head and he/she justitfies doing bad things. And by justifying them they go down a path of disregard for responsibility, for fidelity, for honesty, for putting kids/spouse first, and often become very critical and nasty to justify the affair.
The person he is cheating with at this time KNOWS he is cheating. They are part of the illicit dishonest relationship, a partner in crime. They are getting this person at their absolute lowest. The spouse didn't knowingly choose a liar, gaslighter, cheater---that info was kept well hidden and if the person knew likely would not have procreated with them, married them, etc. NOW they have their children to think about. Children are a VERY big consideration for people that aren't selfish and only thinking about their crotch.
Back to rotten tomato analogy.
If you are with him, you are as dumb as the other woman is.
I say any woman who wants my DH is smart. Selfish, but smart. He is worth all the trouble and more
People aren't a tomato. This is just a dumb analogy. No one believes you are actually married with kids.
So people do have some value even when they are rotten huh?
I must be an AP because I don't buy your mental gymnastics about how useless your cheating husbands are and how dumb the AP is yet you keep them for the children's sake.
Do you sleep with them for the children too? Get off your high horse and stop looking down on people. You are not as smart as you think you are
Cray Cray
I might be crazy but I am not sleeping with a useless man or a man going " down a bad road" as you put it.
That takes some pretty low self esteem. How do you even get aroused by that trash?
Most dump him. And then he dumps the AP and starts playing the field. The end. The wife gets $, the AP gets...I'm not sure what she gets. Onto the next married guy I guess.
Who cares what the AP gets?
Those who stay should be aware that they are insulting themselves when they insult the APs for being dumb enough to come after their trashy husbands.
If they leave, they can say whatever. AP and husbands can now be maggots.
I get this is your feeling, but the majority of people understand that some people have weak times of their lives and are enticed then or they understand they have to be careful because of their kids or money or whatever. No one is perfect and everyone has their own threshold. What you seem to be oblivious to is the fact that each of these women are getting this man at different times under different assumptions and responsibilities to themselves and society which you refuse to recognize.
Nope.
I will not recognize assumptions and responsibilities as excuses for a woman sleeping with a man she does not think highly of. Women are being dishonest and foolish by claiming cheating is so repulsive and then sleeping with cheaters.
Put your money where your mouth is ( or crotch is, whichever). Buy a separate bed, close your legs and tell him you are done effing him. He can stay and take care of his "responsibilities" if you cannot leave due to those responsibilities. But effing you has to cease to be one before you start claiming high intelligence and morals
Otherwise, just keep queit and sleep with trash in peace instead of pretending to be smarter than the sidepieces.
Who says they aren't at least for a time period?
Why does she want to sleep with him when he knows he sleeps with his wife ? The wife has no idea, but the AP knows the guy she bangs is banging someone else and sleeping next to her every night. I don’t get that. Oh yeah- he never sleeps with his wife which is her usual argument. Oh ok
Because the affair sex makes the husband and AP feel amazing and alive again. That is why they are having an affair.
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
If he is scum, any woman sleeping with him is dumb. It doesn't matter when they got him.
If you buy a fresh tomato, you throw it away when it's rotten. You don't get to eat a rotten tomato and feel smart while looking down on whoever bought the rotten one. You are both eating it. That's dumb.
I haven't followed this person in detail, but people are multi-faceted. An adulterer is not entirely scum because no human is. If you make a vow and especially if you have children, it makes sense to try to work on the marriage before giving it up unless there was never a true marriage to begin with and someone lied or omitted information. I'm not really understanding why you have such a need to put the wife down here.
Because she is putting the other woman down for seeing value in her DH. How can't she see that that woman saw what she saw and decided to try to get it for herself? Yes, she lost. But she tried. Yes, she is wicked to try to steal him, but the DH is the heartless person here. Who does that to their family?
Calling that woman dumb is calling herself dumb. The man clearly has some value to both of them.
I don't think this is the same scenario though. The affair woman knows the man is a cheater and still pursues him. The married woman didn't and didn't marry under that premise. Again of course the cheater has some good qualities. That's what was meant by a person is not entirely bad. But it's not the same scenario for both women. You are equalizing them when they are not equal.
So both of them find value in cheaters. They are not so different.
This is America. She can divorce him if cheating is so repulsive. She is still with him because he has value to her. And he has value to the other woman too.
Look, I am not leaving my husband if he cheats. But I am not delusional enough to convince myself that other women are dumb for trying to snatch him. Of course they would want to snatch him. The man can cook, clean take care of the children and still bring good bread home. Plus, sex skills are great. Why wouldn't another woman want that? It's on him to know what is good for him. He will be the only dumb and heartless one if he cheats. Not the woman trying to get something I find very valuable.
I mean, unless he had no value? Then she and I would be dumb to want him.
All of this. It's a different time period and behavior that each person is picking up this man and there are different responsibilities each woman has. While the man has some value, it's obvious that he's going down a bad road and will be more susceptible in the future. This is all the wife is saying.
The person is a liar, compartmentalizer and gaslighter that the original married partner didn't see or that developed over the course of a few decades long marriage--at 28-30 the guy could have been sincere legit and honest at 45-50+ he could have grown entitled after he became wealthy or he could have developed new habits like drinking or been in a complete glut of low self-esteem and/or internal issues that come out in midlife rearing their ugly head and he/she justitfies doing bad things. And by justifying them they go down a path of disregard for responsibility, for fidelity, for honesty, for putting kids/spouse first, and often become very critical and nasty to justify the affair.
The person he is cheating with at this time KNOWS he is cheating. They are part of the illicit dishonest relationship, a partner in crime. They are getting this person at their absolute lowest. The spouse didn't knowingly choose a liar, gaslighter, cheater---that info was kept well hidden and if the person knew likely would not have procreated with them, married them, etc. NOW they have their children to think about. Children are a VERY big consideration for people that aren't selfish and only thinking about their crotch.
Back to rotten tomato analogy.
If you are with him, you are as dumb as the other woman is.
I say any woman who wants my DH is smart. Selfish, but smart. He is worth all the trouble and more
People aren't a tomato. This is just a dumb analogy. No one believes you are actually married with kids.
So people do have some value even when they are rotten huh?
I must be an AP because I don't buy your mental gymnastics about how useless your cheating husbands are and how dumb the AP is yet you keep them for the children's sake.
Do you sleep with them for the children too? Get off your high horse and stop looking down on people. You are not as smart as you think you are
Cray Cray
I might be crazy but I am not sleeping with a useless man or a man going " down a bad road" as you put it.
That takes some pretty low self esteem. How do you even get aroused by that trash?
Most dump him. And then he dumps the AP and starts playing the field. The end. The wife gets $, the AP gets...I'm not sure what she gets. Onto the next married guy I guess.
Who cares what the AP gets?
Those who stay should be aware that they are insulting themselves when they insult the APs for being dumb enough to come after their trashy husbands.
If they leave, they can say whatever. AP and husbands can now be maggots.
I get this is your feeling, but the majority of people understand that some people have weak times of their lives and are enticed then or they understand they have to be careful because of their kids or money or whatever. No one is perfect and everyone has their own threshold. What you seem to be oblivious to is the fact that each of these women are getting this man at different times under different assumptions and responsibilities to themselves and society which you refuse to recognize.
Nope.
I will not recognize assumptions and responsibilities as excuses for a woman sleeping with a man she does not think highly of. Women are being dishonest and foolish by claiming cheating is so repulsive and then sleeping with cheaters.
Put your money where your mouth is ( or crotch is, whichever). Buy a separate bed, close your legs and tell him you are done effing him. He can stay and take care of his "responsibilities" if you cannot leave due to those responsibilities. But effing you has to cease to be one before you start claiming high intelligence and morals
Otherwise, just keep queit and sleep with trash in peace instead of pretending to be smarter than the sidepieces.
Who says they aren't at least for a time period?
Why does she want to sleep with him when he knows he sleeps with his wife ? The wife has no idea, but the AP knows the guy she bangs is banging someone else and sleeping next to her every night. I don’t get that. Oh yeah- he never sleeps with his wife which is her usual argument. Oh ok
Who cares?
Why does he want to sleep with AP? He is the one with a commitment/ vow.
That should be the only concern here unless AP is married.
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
+100
And it's basic human decency to not engage in activities that will cause direct harm to another person. Good people aren't side pieces and they aren't cheaters. Anyone with basic decency, empathy and decorum does neither of those things.
So cheating husbands are bad people?
Then let them go be with other bad people. Why are these wives keeping them?
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
If he is scum, any woman sleeping with him is dumb. It doesn't matter when they got him.
If you buy a fresh tomato, you throw it away when it's rotten. You don't get to eat a rotten tomato and feel smart while looking down on whoever bought the rotten one. You are both eating it. That's dumb.
I haven't followed this person in detail, but people are multi-faceted. An adulterer is not entirely scum because no human is. If you make a vow and especially if you have children, it makes sense to try to work on the marriage before giving it up unless there was never a true marriage to begin with and someone lied or omitted information. I'm not really understanding why you have such a need to put the wife down here.
Because she is putting the other woman down for seeing value in her DH. How can't she see that that woman saw what she saw and decided to try to get it for herself? Yes, she lost. But she tried. Yes, she is wicked to try to steal him, but the DH is the heartless person here. Who does that to their family?
Calling that woman dumb is calling herself dumb. The man clearly has some value to both of them.
I don't think this is the same scenario though. The affair woman knows the man is a cheater and still pursues him. The married woman didn't and didn't marry under that premise. Again of course the cheater has some good qualities. That's what was meant by a person is not entirely bad. But it's not the same scenario for both women. You are equalizing them when they are not equal.
So both of them find value in cheaters. They are not so different.
This is America. She can divorce him if cheating is so repulsive. She is still with him because he has value to her. And he has value to the other woman too.
Look, I am not leaving my husband if he cheats. But I am not delusional enough to convince myself that other women are dumb for trying to snatch him. Of course they would want to snatch him. The man can cook, clean take care of the children and still bring good bread home. Plus, sex skills are great. Why wouldn't another woman want that? It's on him to know what is good for him. He will be the only dumb and heartless one if he cheats. Not the woman trying to get something I find very valuable.
I mean, unless he had no value? Then she and I would be dumb to want him.
All of this. It's a different time period and behavior that each person is picking up this man and there are different responsibilities each woman has. While the man has some value, it's obvious that he's going down a bad road and will be more susceptible in the future. This is all the wife is saying.
The person is a liar, compartmentalizer and gaslighter that the original married partner didn't see or that developed over the course of a few decades long marriage--at 28-30 the guy could have been sincere legit and honest at 45-50+ he could have grown entitled after he became wealthy or he could have developed new habits like drinking or been in a complete glut of low self-esteem and/or internal issues that come out in midlife rearing their ugly head and he/she justitfies doing bad things. And by justifying them they go down a path of disregard for responsibility, for fidelity, for honesty, for putting kids/spouse first, and often become very critical and nasty to justify the affair.
The person he is cheating with at this time KNOWS he is cheating. They are part of the illicit dishonest relationship, a partner in crime. They are getting this person at their absolute lowest. The spouse didn't knowingly choose a liar, gaslighter, cheater---that info was kept well hidden and if the person knew likely would not have procreated with them, married them, etc. NOW they have their children to think about. Children are a VERY big consideration for people that aren't selfish and only thinking about their crotch.
Back to rotten tomato analogy.
If you are with him, you are as dumb as the other woman is.
I say any woman who wants my DH is smart. Selfish, but smart. He is worth all the trouble and more
People aren't a tomato. This is just a dumb analogy. No one believes you are actually married with kids.
So people do have some value even when they are rotten huh?
I must be an AP because I don't buy your mental gymnastics about how useless your cheating husbands are and how dumb the AP is yet you keep them for the children's sake.
Do you sleep with them for the children too? Get off your high horse and stop looking down on people. You are not as smart as you think you are
Cray Cray
I might be crazy but I am not sleeping with a useless man or a man going " down a bad road" as you put it.
That takes some pretty low self esteem. How do you even get aroused by that trash?
Most dump him. And then he dumps the AP and starts playing the field. The end. The wife gets $, the AP gets...I'm not sure what she gets. Onto the next married guy I guess.
Who cares what the AP gets?
Those who stay should be aware that they are insulting themselves when they insult the APs for being dumb enough to come after their trashy husbands.
If they leave, they can say whatever. AP and husbands can now be maggots.
I get this is your feeling, but the majority of people understand that some people have weak times of their lives and are enticed then or they understand they have to be careful because of their kids or money or whatever. No one is perfect and everyone has their own threshold. What you seem to be oblivious to is the fact that each of these women are getting this man at different times under different assumptions and responsibilities to themselves and society which you refuse to recognize.
Nope.
I will not recognize assumptions and responsibilities as excuses for a woman sleeping with a man she does not think highly of. Women are being dishonest and foolish by claiming cheating is so repulsive and then sleeping with cheaters.
Put your money where your mouth is ( or crotch is, whichever). Buy a separate bed, close your legs and tell him you are done effing him. He can stay and take care of his "responsibilities" if you cannot leave due to those responsibilities. But effing you has to cease to be one before you start claiming high intelligence and morals
Otherwise, just keep queit and sleep with trash in peace instead of pretending to be smarter than the sidepieces.
Who says they aren't at least for a time period?
Why does she want to sleep with him when he knows he sleeps with his wife ? The wife has no idea, but the AP knows the guy she bangs is banging someone else and sleeping next to her every night. I don’t get that. Oh yeah- he never sleeps with his wife which is her usual argument. Oh ok
Who cares?
Why does he want to sleep with AP? He is the one with a commitment/ vow.
That should be the only concern here unless AP is married.
It is mainly but AP's are like drug dealers trying to catch people in a bad moment. They aren't totally innocent.
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
+100
And it's basic human decency to not engage in activities that will cause direct harm to another person. Good people aren't side pieces and they aren't cheaters. Anyone with basic decency, empathy and decorum does neither of those things.
So cheating husbands are bad people?
Then let them go be with other bad people. Why are these wives keeping them?
Yes they are bad people. They aren’t being forthright about wanting to separate. They want the social and logistical benefits of marriage while having sex with someone on the side.
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
If he is scum, any woman sleeping with him is dumb. It doesn't matter when they got him.
If you buy a fresh tomato, you throw it away when it's rotten. You don't get to eat a rotten tomato and feel smart while looking down on whoever bought the rotten one. You are both eating it. That's dumb.
I haven't followed this person in detail, but people are multi-faceted. An adulterer is not entirely scum because no human is. If you make a vow and especially if you have children, it makes sense to try to work on the marriage before giving it up unless there was never a true marriage to begin with and someone lied or omitted information. I'm not really understanding why you have such a need to put the wife down here.
Because she is putting the other woman down for seeing value in her DH. How can't she see that that woman saw what she saw and decided to try to get it for herself? Yes, she lost. But she tried. Yes, she is wicked to try to steal him, but the DH is the heartless person here. Who does that to their family?
Calling that woman dumb is calling herself dumb. The man clearly has some value to both of them.
I don't think this is the same scenario though. The affair woman knows the man is a cheater and still pursues him. The married woman didn't and didn't marry under that premise. Again of course the cheater has some good qualities. That's what was meant by a person is not entirely bad. But it's not the same scenario for both women. You are equalizing them when they are not equal.
So both of them find value in cheaters. They are not so different.
This is America. She can divorce him if cheating is so repulsive. She is still with him because he has value to her. And he has value to the other woman too.
Look, I am not leaving my husband if he cheats. But I am not delusional enough to convince myself that other women are dumb for trying to snatch him. Of course they would want to snatch him. The man can cook, clean take care of the children and still bring good bread home. Plus, sex skills are great. Why wouldn't another woman want that? It's on him to know what is good for him. He will be the only dumb and heartless one if he cheats. Not the woman trying to get something I find very valuable.
I mean, unless he had no value? Then she and I would be dumb to want him.
All of this. It's a different time period and behavior that each person is picking up this man and there are different responsibilities each woman has. While the man has some value, it's obvious that he's going down a bad road and will be more susceptible in the future. This is all the wife is saying.
The person is a liar, compartmentalizer and gaslighter that the original married partner didn't see or that developed over the course of a few decades long marriage--at 28-30 the guy could have been sincere legit and honest at 45-50+ he could have grown entitled after he became wealthy or he could have developed new habits like drinking or been in a complete glut of low self-esteem and/or internal issues that come out in midlife rearing their ugly head and he/she justitfies doing bad things. And by justifying them they go down a path of disregard for responsibility, for fidelity, for honesty, for putting kids/spouse first, and often become very critical and nasty to justify the affair.
The person he is cheating with at this time KNOWS he is cheating. They are part of the illicit dishonest relationship, a partner in crime. They are getting this person at their absolute lowest. The spouse didn't knowingly choose a liar, gaslighter, cheater---that info was kept well hidden and if the person knew likely would not have procreated with them, married them, etc. NOW they have their children to think about. Children are a VERY big consideration for people that aren't selfish and only thinking about their crotch.
Back to rotten tomato analogy.
If you are with him, you are as dumb as the other woman is.
I say any woman who wants my DH is smart. Selfish, but smart. He is worth all the trouble and more
People aren't a tomato. This is just a dumb analogy. No one believes you are actually married with kids.
So people do have some value even when they are rotten huh?
I must be an AP because I don't buy your mental gymnastics about how useless your cheating husbands are and how dumb the AP is yet you keep them for the children's sake.
Do you sleep with them for the children too? Get off your high horse and stop looking down on people. You are not as smart as you think you are
Cray Cray
I might be crazy but I am not sleeping with a useless man or a man going " down a bad road" as you put it.
That takes some pretty low self esteem. How do you even get aroused by that trash?
Most dump him. And then he dumps the AP and starts playing the field. The end. The wife gets $, the AP gets...I'm not sure what she gets. Onto the next married guy I guess.
Who cares what the AP gets?
Those who stay should be aware that they are insulting themselves when they insult the APs for being dumb enough to come after their trashy husbands.
If they leave, they can say whatever. AP and husbands can now be maggots.
I get this is your feeling, but the majority of people understand that some people have weak times of their lives and are enticed then or they understand they have to be careful because of their kids or money or whatever. No one is perfect and everyone has their own threshold. What you seem to be oblivious to is the fact that each of these women are getting this man at different times under different assumptions and responsibilities to themselves and society which you refuse to recognize.
Nope.
I will not recognize assumptions and responsibilities as excuses for a woman sleeping with a man she does not think highly of. Women are being dishonest and foolish by claiming cheating is so repulsive and then sleeping with cheaters.
Put your money where your mouth is ( or crotch is, whichever). Buy a separate bed, close your legs and tell him you are done effing him. He can stay and take care of his "responsibilities" if you cannot leave due to those responsibilities. But effing you has to cease to be one before you start claiming high intelligence and morals
Otherwise, just keep queit and sleep with trash in peace instead of pretending to be smarter than the sidepieces.
Who says they aren't at least for a time period?
Why does she want to sleep with him when he knows he sleeps with his wife ? The wife has no idea, but the AP knows the guy she bangs is banging someone else and sleeping next to her every night. I don’t get that. Oh yeah- he never sleeps with his wife which is her usual argument. Oh ok
Who cares?
Why does he want to sleep with AP? He is the one with a commitment/ vow.
That should be the only concern here unless AP is married.
It is mainly but AP's are like drug dealers trying to catch people in a bad moment. They aren't totally innocent.
APs have nothing to lose. They are horrible, true. But they have nothing to lose even after the affair ends. The man was never really theirs anyway.
They can only gain. And if these wives truly think there is nothing to gain, they should pass their husbands along and see just how happy the APs will be. 😆
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
+100
And it's basic human decency to not engage in activities that will cause direct harm to another person. Good people aren't side pieces and they aren't cheaters. Anyone with basic decency, empathy and decorum does neither of those things.
So cheating husbands are bad people?
Then let them go be with other bad people. Why are these wives keeping them?
Yes they are bad people. They aren’t being forthright about wanting to separate. They want the social and logistical benefits of marriage while having sex with someone on the side.
So why are " good women" ( the wives) staying and sleeping with these "bad men"?
And don't give me that crap about money, children, status, whatever. This is the 21st century. A nursing degree and a 100k salary after that is a year and a half away. Most of the women on this board can take care of themselves and their children in an apartment or townhouse.
If that big house is worth you staying with a " bad" person and sleeping with a "bad" person, stay quietly. There is nothing intelligent about your decision to stay. It makes no sense.
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
+100
And it's basic human decency to not engage in activities that will cause direct harm to another person. Good people aren't side pieces and they aren't cheaters. Anyone with basic decency, empathy and decorum does neither of those things.
So cheating husbands are bad people?
Then let them go be with other bad people. Why are these wives keeping them?
Yes they are bad people. They aren’t being forthright about wanting to separate. They want the social and logistical benefits of marriage while having sex with someone on the side.
So why are " good women" ( the wives) staying and sleeping with these "bad men"?
And don't give me that crap about money, children, status, whatever. This is the 21st century. A nursing degree and a 100k salary after that is a year and a half away. Most of the women on this board can take care of themselves and their children in an apartment or townhouse.
If that big house is worth you staying with a " bad" person and sleeping with a "bad" person, stay quietly. There is nothing intelligent about your decision to stay. It makes no sense.
^ unless you decide to get off whatever you are smoking and admit that your DH is actually a pretty good catch with some issues that might need tweaking, and that AP has a bad heart but a good eye .
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
+100
And it's basic human decency to not engage in activities that will cause direct harm to another person. Good people aren't side pieces and they aren't cheaters. Anyone with basic decency, empathy and decorum does neither of those things.
So cheating husbands are bad people?
Then let them go be with other bad people. Why are these wives keeping them?
Yes they are bad people. They aren’t being forthright about wanting to separate. They want the social and logistical benefits of marriage while having sex with someone on the side.
So why are " good women" ( the wives) staying and sleeping with these "bad men"?
And don't give me that crap about money, children, status, whatever. This is the 21st century. A nursing degree and a 100k salary after that is a year and a half away. Most of the women on this board can take care of themselves and their children in an apartment or townhouse.
If that big house is worth you staying with a " bad" person and sleeping with a "bad" person, stay quietly. There is nothing intelligent about your decision to stay. It makes no sense.
^ unless you decide to get off whatever you are smoking and admit that your DH is actually a pretty good catch with some issues that might need tweaking, and that AP has a bad heart but a good eye .
Stigma of being divorced and having to face others.
Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.
Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free
I can assure you they get laid for free.
Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?
Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.
They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.
Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.
Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.
No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.
Wow. When you are being used because someone did the calculation and came to the conclusion that you might be 'safer' than a sex worker, and of course it's free.
Why do you assume someone is always being "used" and "discarded" etc etc? It's a mutually beneficial exchange for those people. Doesn't make it right, but it's downright misogynist to always assume the female AP is being used like a piece of trash.
Sure, there are outliers where both APs are on equal footing financially and socially; where the women is in it for the sex and sex only, but I sincerely doubt that is the norm. Misogyny and a power differential is sort built into most affairs. When the majority of women APs cheat with hipster Starbucks baristas instead of corporate Captains of the Universe, I will think differently. These women aren’t victims or admirable feminists, but it is men who appear callous and cruel.
All this verbiage about bike riding, used tube socks, discarded trash and throwing under the bus. Ugly, anti-woman sentiment.
You have no idea. More women are having affairs these days because they have opportunity and independence, like on work travel. As women continue to acquire the same freedoms as men, we will likely see the rate of women participating in affairs increase. The notion that they are all sad little housewives or secretaries, hoping to improve their economic situation, is quite passe.
Yes, the notion is passé and infantilizing, but anecdotally we can point to many posts here from single women looking to marry wealthy men and we hear from betrayed wives how the AP was looking for an upgrade. This article discusses women quitting their jobs at c suite level at 3x the rate of men. Many women are burnt out and want to quit. workinghttps://www.forbes.com/sites/lizelting/2019/08/21/why-women-quit/?sh=20b91c4f16fa
That's unreliable narrators. If you listen to the wives, they are always prettier, thinner and smarter than AP.
Yeah, but APs are already making a dumb decision to try to land a cheater, so why would we assume they're the brightest of the bunch?
I feel pretty confident that I understand the OW's motivations because she was even dumb enough to blog about it obliquely (the heart wants what the heart wants!). Her writing style was "run-on sentences always punctuated by exclamation points." How charming. And she told DH that her sibling had married someone who was divorcing with kids so she thought that was a viable path for her after having aged out of the dating pool in her small community.
To quote Legally Blonde, the OW isn't entirely unfortunate looking, but she's not clearly better looking than me. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm aware of her motivations regarding her affair with my husband.
In the end, OW married an older widower (no kids between them). She's now in her early 40s, so she has probably missed the chance to have kids. I can see the appeal for her of moving to a wealthier nation and marrying a wealthy man with adorable kids. I think she had genuine feelings for him too. Really the true tragedy is that my husband was thinking with his smaller brain and didn't stop to think about the fact that we weren't actually on the verge of divorce and this fantasy was never going to happen. After a couple of weeks he was totally over her, but she wrote sad things on her blog for years until meeting her now-husband.
Yes, I'm invested in the outcome of this story. Sleep with my husband, that's what you get! I feel an odd sense of sorrow on her behalf for never having kids. I'm pretty sure she wanted them and it was probably a matter of fertility and not being able to afford treatment. Wasting her early/mid 30s pining after a married man didn't help either.
The thing I don't feel the need to do is compare our qualities because when you get married, you specifically sign up for a one on one relationship. It's not a competition between me and another woman, and I stomp on the toes of any man who tries to make it one. You don't get to try other partners on for size when you're married . . . I'm a great person, but if I'm not right for you, then we'll divorce. I don't think OW is a completely horrible person, just someone with lower self-esteem and perhaps not the greatest strategic mind. Our primal instincts and society would have fight each other for the male's attention, but nah. I'll pass. If he can't see how great I am he's free to go be with someone else.
Those were my instincts on DDay, and I'm sure they saved me a lot of headaches because OW was prepared to fight me for him. Neither of them was prepared for me to go, "What the hell? Um, no thanks . . . . I am exiting the triangle . . ." And of course that made my husband snap to reality. He actually said out loud, "This is crazy; I don't even know her that well," after I was like, what the hell, get out and go be with her . . . But if I'd played his game and said, oh wow, you are such a stud and of course we both want you, he would have sat on the fence patting himself on the back until one of us pushed him off.
And you made a dumb decision by marrying a cheater. What makes you any brighter than her?
At least she has the same moral compass as the men she sleeps with.
You seem to think you are better than them. How did you end up with a slime ball like your DH if you are brighter than AP?
She has higher morals if not the intelligence. When she married he wasn’t a cheater. Enough with the blaming people for things that might happen in the future. We can only control ourselves.
What good did the higher morals serve when she ended up with a trashy man? And she is so moral and intelligent that she keeps him while looking down on the woman who is his actual level.
She should not be talking about other people's intelligence when her moral compass and intelligence led her to scum.
So now people who have affairs are scum to all even if you aren't involved? Over 50% of marriages have affairs. No one can control another person. No one is responsible for another person whether it is alcohol, workaholic, big spender, yeller, laziness, aldulterer among others. We all have the ability to wound ourselves and others or to be misled. You don't sound too kind yourself. Whether it is electronics or another woman this person had low willpower and was enticed by a society that is permissive in this area.
In this context, yes.
If her DH is not good enough for his lower value AP, he is definitely not good enough for his " bright, high moral" wife. Either that or she is not as high value as she thinks she is, be it morally or intellectually.
I feel like you are acting like these are two people dating this person with the same equality. One person the man made a promise to in front of his family and friends and her. It's not a wife's job to keep tabs on her husband to the same level as when she was dating after that promise has been made. It doesn't make her dumb. She just actually believed him and then went about pursuing married life. If he didn't want the job of husband and just wanted to be a boyfriend, he shouldn't have applied.l
+100
And it's basic human decency to not engage in activities that will cause direct harm to another person. Good people aren't side pieces and they aren't cheaters. Anyone with basic decency, empathy and decorum does neither of those things.
So cheating husbands are bad people?
Then let them go be with other bad people. Why are these wives keeping them?
Yes they are bad people. They aren’t being forthright about wanting to separate. They want the social and logistical benefits of marriage while having sex with someone on the side.
So why are " good women" ( the wives) staying and sleeping with these "bad men"?
And don't give me that crap about money, children, status, whatever. This is the 21st century. A nursing degree and a 100k salary after that is a year and a half away. Most of the women on this board can take care of themselves and their children in an apartment or townhouse.
If that big house is worth you staying with a " bad" person and sleeping with a "bad" person, stay quietly. There is nothing intelligent about your decision to stay. It makes no sense.
^ unless you decide to get off whatever you are smoking and admit that your DH is actually a pretty good catch with some issues that might need tweaking, and that AP has a bad heart but a good eye .
Stigma of being divorced and having to face others.
Meh.
You don't open your legs for a man for something like this. You smile and pretend in public and scratch his face behind close doors.
You don't sleep with someone to avoid stigma. That's worse than being a whore.
I find it hard to believe that most affairs start because someone because someone has an endless need for validation
or a lack of empathy or has dastardly tendencies,
I don’t think it was covered here but sometimes feelings just show up out of nowhere, then you realize whats missing in your marriage. Whether due to neglect or familiarity you begin to notice that all those feelings you forgot about are fired up again and instead of looking for ways that you are alike and happy you may start looking for things in your spouse that promote your differences.
A few months of you looking for nothing but ways your spouse has changed or doesn’t get you or doesn’t like you, doesn’t love you etc. will drive you towards your new object of affection. It happens slowly and then all at once and all of a sudden you’re a whole new person with a brand new perspective.
That new perspective can motivate you to refocus on your marriage but sometimes that new perspective can make you lose hope on your marriage so you can throw up your hands and head right into full blown affair.
Anonymous wrote:I like how people think the only consequence of divorce is living in a smaller home. What a phenomenally stupid or disingenuous argument.
I'm convinced the person is just trying to justify how "smart" the AP is because they are one.
Anonymous wrote:I like how people think the only consequence of divorce is living in a smaller home. What a phenomenally stupid or disingenuous argument.
As disingenuous and stupid as sleeping with a man you claim is beneath you or the AP.
Anonymous wrote:I like how people think the only consequence of divorce is living in a smaller home. What a phenomenally stupid or disingenuous argument.
I'm convinced the person is just trying to justify how "smart" the AP is because they are one.
That would only be fair since this argument started with a wife claiming AP was dumb for sleeping with her husband.
But alas, I have a husband who does not cheat, thank goodness.
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