First day drop off -- MD tags

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those numbers don't point to a huge issue for me. Much lIke drug testing welfare recipients, you spend a lot in an attempt to recoup from.a few. It probably costs more to investigate this supposed fraud than it does to find the minority of cheaters in investigated cases. Furthermore, your broad-ranging and wildly offensive comments about how "those people" need to go to chruches in their own communities has pretty much tainted the well.

There are multiple posters here, you're not debating with one person.

As for the wildly offensive comments about DC's commuter churches, I don't know where you live, but for the people in DC who live very close to one of the commuter churches in densely populated neighborhoods, it's an issue. I don't know about WaPo but the commuter church phenomenon and the related parking issue have been covered in the city paper, in the PoPville blog, other local blogs. Some of the people complaining about the illegal parking are black BTW, generally younger, with different views on religion, urban living. It's not strictly a white gentrifier versus black native washingtonian thing. My sense is that this thread is your first time encountering this church issue, so maybe you have not had the best introduction to it.

Adding: if you live WOTP, this church issue probably doesn't happen in your neighborhood. I think it's a capitol hill and EOTP thing.

Holy Trinity in Georgetown is the ultimate commuter church. With a large number of registered parishioners, it draws from Washington, Virginia and Maryland. While there is some offstreet parking at Visitation School on Sundays, most parking is on the streets. I don't hear a lot of Georgetowners complaining about Holy Trinity, perhaps because it is near the university and the neighborhood is used to being a destination for lots of things anyway.

[Anonymous]

No. It happens in our neighborhood. Many people at our church live in Maryland.

I just don't find parking an issue, because I have two legs and can walk to my car where ever it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. It happens in our neighborhood. Many people at our church live in Maryland.

I just don't find parking an issue, because I have two legs and can walk to my car where ever it is.

You didn't specify your neighborhood. There aren't many upper NE neighborhoods with parking problems. WOTP is not densely populated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It happens in our neighborhood. Many people at our church live in Maryland.

I just don't find parking an issue, because I have two legs and can walk to my car where ever it is.

You didn't specify your neighborhood. There aren't many upper NE neighborhoods with parking problems. WOTP is not densely populated.

Upper "NW"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those numbers don't point to a huge issue for me. Much lIke drug testing welfare recipients, you spend a lot in an attempt to recoup from.a few. It probably costs more to investigate this supposed fraud than it does to find the minority of cheaters in investigated cases. Furthermore, your broad-ranging and wildly offensive comments about how "those people" need to go to chruches in their own communities has pretty much tainted the well.

There are multiple posters here, you're not debating with one person.

As for the wildly offensive comments about DC's commuter churches, I don't know where you live, but for the people in DC who live very close to one of the commuter churches in densely populated neighborhoods, it's an issue. I don't know about WaPo but the commuter church phenomenon and the related parking issue have been covered in the city paper, in the PoPville blog, other local blogs. Some of the people complaining about the illegal parking are black BTW, generally younger, with different views on religion, urban living. It's not strictly a white gentrifier versus black native washingtonian thing. My sense is that this thread is your first time encountering this church issue, so maybe you have not had the best introduction to it.

I live on Capitol Hill, am a person of color, and can't stand the illegal parking that happens on Sunday. I report all of them and nothing happens because parking enforcement is not out working Sundays. It's a disgrace that people hide behind the cloak of the church and then park like animals. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people blocking driveways and hydrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. It happens in our neighborhood. Many people at our church live in Maryland.

I just don't find parking an issue, because I have two legs and can walk to my car where ever it is.

Sure, but on that walk, you take your life in your hands navigating the cars that are blocking crosswalks, making illegal u-turns to enter/leave a spot, and double parked, not to mention the legal angled parking (with ever-increasing time limits) that severely limits pedestrian/bike visibility. Illegal parking is dangerous for pedestrians, other drivers, and bicyclists. I remain baffled that it's not enforced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It happens in our neighborhood. Many people at our church live in Maryland.

I just don't find parking an issue, because I have two legs and can walk to my car where ever it is.

Sure, but on that walk, you take your life in your hands navigating the cars that are blocking crosswalks, making illegal u-turns to enter/leave a spot, and double parked, not to mention the legal angled parking (with ever-increasing time limits) that severely limits pedestrian/bike visibility. Illegal parking is dangerous for pedestrians, other drivers, and bicyclists. I remain baffled that it's not enforced.

As a PP said, the parking enforcement people generally don't work on Sundays. And the cops won't ticket near a church, at least not on Sunday. It's largely a political understanding. While many of the congregants have moved out of the District, the ministers of certain churches remain a powerful political force in DC. Mayors and many councilmembers want to keep them sweet.

[Anonymous]

It's not the blocking driveways or hydrants that will get church parking changed. It's going to take a body, maybe one with a stroller, that was crossing with a legal right of way, and illegally parked cars make it hard for the car driver and pedestrian to see each other -- and someone gets plowed over and dies. The above poster that noted the angled turns is spot on.

Sad to say, but I think this is the only way there is political clout to enforce the law. I think it happens in the next 1-3 years. Lots of church drivers are getting older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not the blocking driveways or hydrants that will get church parking changed. It's going to take a body, maybe one with a stroller, that was crossing with a legal right of way, and illegally parked cars make it hard for the car driver and pedestrian to see each other -- and someone gets plowed over and dies. The above poster that noted the angled turns is spot on.

Sad to say, but I think this is the only way there is political clout to enforce the law. I think it happens in the next 1-3 years. Lots of church drivers are getting older.

This behavior IS rather similar to the mindset of the MD residency cheaters: that of self-righteous entitlement to break the law. There is probably some kind of super-nurtured victimization status, strongly embedded in the psyche, that allows someone to justify this type of behavior. In their minds, it's not a desire to break the law that motivates their behavior, but that there's a pre-existing grievance that entitles them to a special exception to the reach of the law. When a child acts out in this way, the parents' discipline serves to prevent its recurrence; but in this case, the "parent" is the City government, which clearly doesn't care, which therefore serves to justify the behavior in the minds of the perpetrators. It's a self-perpetuating feedback loop. The only way to get rid of it is to elect a different parent who's willing to discipline. This is a problem that probably has reach far beyond school seats and Sunday parking.

[Anonymous]

Admittedly I don't know capitol hill very well, but your paternalistic tone when speaking about grown adults is offensive. In my neighborhood, no one is parking illegally but I've still heard complaints. The real us vs them mentality is just so, so strange here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the blocking driveways or hydrants that will get church parking changed. It's going to take a body, maybe one with a stroller, that was crossing with a legal right of way, and illegally parked cars make it hard for the car driver and pedestrian to see each other -- and someone gets plowed over and dies. The above poster that noted the angled turns is spot on.

Sad to say, but I think this is the only way there is political clout to enforce the law. I think it happens in the next 1-3 years. Lots of church drivers are getting older.

This behavior IS rather similar to the mindset of the MD residency cheaters: that of self-righteous entitlement to break the law. There is probably some kind of super-nurtured victimization status, strongly embedded in the psyche, that allows someone to justify this type of behavior. In their minds, it's not a desire to break the law that motivates their behavior, but that there's a pre-existing grievance that entitles them to a special exception to the reach of the law. When a child acts out in this way, the parents' discipline serves to prevent its recurrence; but in this case, the "parent" is the City government, which clearly doesn't care, which therefore serves to justify the behavior in the minds of the perpetrators. It's a self-perpetuating feedback loop. The only way to get rid of it is to elect a different parent who's willing to discipline. This is a problem that probably has reach far beyond school seats and Sunday parking.

"super-nurtured victimization status" - that's an apt phrasing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not the blocking driveways or hydrants that will get church parking changed. It's going to take a body, maybe one with a stroller, that was crossing with a legal right of way, and illegally parked cars make it hard for the car driver and pedestrian to see each other -- and someone gets plowed over and dies. The above poster that noted the angled turns is spot on.

Sad to say, but I think this is the only way there is political clout to enforce the law. I think it happens in the next 1-3 years. Lots of church drivers are getting older.

I
As someone with a toddler and a baby, it's a bit hard to walk to my car or house if it's parked several blocks away. This is only worse after a trip to the grocery store, etc. Please be mindful of the residents of a neighborhood when you attend church or school in a neighborhood different from your own.

The comment that it will take a body with a stroller to rectify this practice made my blood run cold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:>>>Both of these articles point out that there are investigations into residency fraud, but fewer than half are proven cheaters.

Consistent with claims on this board. Most people are concerend with one or two people at each school.

>>>The WaPo story (about a Ward 8 charter school, something few here on DCUM care about) said that it's a complex and labor intensive task for a school to take on by itself.

Yep. No disagreement there.

>>>But you still have to report your suspicions in order for anything to official to happen. So do that.

I have and I hope others consistently do as well.

The presence of the investigative process, though, served as a deterrent. Lots of people would illegally enroll their kids in free preschool if they thought they could get away with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those numbers don't point to a huge issue for me. Much lIke drug testing welfare recipients, you spend a lot in an attempt to recoup from.a few. It probably costs more to investigate this supposed fraud than it does to find the minority of cheaters in investigated cases. Furthermore, your broad-ranging and wildly offensive comments about how "those people" need to go to chruches in their own communities has pretty much tainted the well.

There are multiple posters here, you're not debating with one person.

As for the wildly offensive comments about DC's commuter churches, I don't know where you live, but for the people in DC who live very close to one of the commuter churches in densely populated neighborhoods, it's an issue. I don't know about WaPo but the commuter church phenomenon and the related parking issue have been covered in the city paper, in the PoPville blog, other local blogs. Some of the people complaining about the illegal parking are black BTW, generally younger, with different views on religion, urban living. It's not strictly a white gentrifier versus black native washingtonian thing. My sense is that this thread is your first time encountering this church issue, so maybe you have not had the best introduction to it.

I'm not the PP, but wondering why bring up churches at all in this context? IIRC, the poster who first brought it up said it's about people who don't like the changes that have been happening in their neighborhood. So...yeah, that's white gentrifier versus black native Washingtonian thing.

I've lived in DC 20+ years, and for the last 11, endured four churches within a two block radius of my house. Yes, Sundays are annoying and possibly dangerous. It's not because the drivers are MD residents with a deep psychological need to break the law (I mean, seriously? WTF.) It's because they're old.

Go anywhere in the city, or suburbs for that matter, and it's like Final Destination on Sunday mornings with all the drivers who took their license exam in the 1950s out on the road. One of the worst places I've experienced it is upper Connecticut Avenue.

But what does it have to do with residency cheaters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those numbers don't point to a huge issue for me. Much lIke drug testing welfare recipients, you spend a lot in an attempt to recoup from.a few. It probably costs more to investigate this supposed fraud than it does to find the minority of cheaters in investigated cases. Furthermore, your broad-ranging and wildly offensive comments about how "those people" need to go to chruches in their own communities has pretty much tainted the well.

There are multiple posters here, you're not debating with one person.

As for the wildly offensive comments about DC's commuter churches, I don't know where you live, but for the people in DC who live very close to one of the commuter churches in densely populated neighborhoods, it's an issue. I don't know about WaPo but the commuter church phenomenon and the related parking issue have been covered in the city paper, in the PoPville blog, other local blogs. Some of the people complaining about the illegal parking are black BTW, generally younger, with different views on religion, urban living. It's not strictly a white gentrifier versus black native washingtonian thing. My sense is that this thread is your first time encountering this church issue, so maybe you have not had the best introduction to it.

I'm not the PP, but wondering why bring up churches at all in this context? IIRC, the poster who first brought it up said it's about people who don't like the changes that have been happening in their neighborhood. So...yeah, that's white gentrifier versus black native Washingtonian thing.

I've lived in DC 20+ years, and for the last 11, endured four churches within a two block radius of my house. Yes, Sundays are annoying and possibly dangerous. It's not because the drivers are MD residents with a deep psychological need to break the law (I mean, seriously? WTF.) It's because they're old.

Go anywhere in the city, or suburbs for that matter, and it's like Final Destination on Sunday mornings with all the drivers who took their license exam in the 1950s out on the road. One of the worst places I've experienced it is upper Connecticut Avenue.

But what does it have to do with residency cheaters?

Nothing. It's a distraction away from the main issue, residency fraud, which the DC school leadership and bureaucracy has yet to take seriously. In this time of way-oversubscribed school lotteries, budget cuts and other challenges, the theft of spots and resources from our public and charter schools is a crime -- legally and morally.