To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

the progressives are fringe to the Democratic party
the evangelicals and MAGAs are core

Kind of a big difference, no?

Of course!

But if the Dems embrace (or appear to embrace) progressive positions, it will have the same effect as R's going MAGA.

This administration is as centrist liberal as one can get. What are the hyper-progessive positions being embraced?

I see funding for the police in three different Biden bills...no defunding.

What else?

I agree: this has been a center-left admin, which I support.

But we have the progressives here saying that they won't vote for Biden b/c of his centrism.

My point is that if Biden moves left to appease the progressives, he'll lose the middle.

Biden is who he is. He isn't moving to the left. Look at the DCUM thread about the State Department employees who have resigned because he isn't dojng enough for Hamas. It is tough being a centrist, you get attacked from both sides.

At some point, the progressives will either have to realize that incremental change is acceptable, or else deal with living under the likes of Trump for a long time.

That's not what will happen lol. Read a history book. The working class will only take so much. That's why you have Trump. But those mouth breathing dummies are waking up. They're beginning to see who is actually making their lives shitty. They're joining the unions. The tide is changing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

What more would you have expected given both economic and political realities?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

the progressives are fringe to the Democratic party
the evangelicals and MAGAs are core

Kind of a big difference, no?

Of course!

But if the Dems embrace (or appear to embrace) progressive positions, it will have the same effect as R's going MAGA.

This administration is as centrist liberal as one can get. What are the hyper-progessive positions being embraced?

I see funding for the police in three different Biden bills...no defunding.

What else?

I agree: this has been a center-left admin, which I support.

But we have the progressives here saying that they won't vote for Biden b/c of his centrism.

My point is that if Biden moves left to appease the progressives, he'll lose the middle.

Biden is who he is. He isn't moving to the left. Look at the DCUM thread about the State Department employees who have resigned because he isn't dojng enough for Hamas. It is tough being a centrist, you get attacked from both sides.

At some point, the progressives will either have to realize that incremental change is acceptable, or else deal with living under the likes of Trump for a long time.

Totally agree.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

What more would you have expected given both economic and political realities?

A backbone, to do what is so clearly necessary. But we all knew Biden wasn't that guy. But I was bullied into voting for him "to save democracy." Not again.

The planet is burning and the wealthy have hoarded all the money and power. We literally do not have time for more status quo. The octogenarians aren't going to save us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

What more would you have expected given both economic and political realities?

A backbone, to do what is so clearly necessary. But we all knew Biden wasn't that guy. But I was bullied into voting for him "to save democracy." Not again.

The planet is burning and the wealthy have hoarded all the money and power. We literally do not have time for more status quo. The octogenarians aren't going to save us.

Revolution is undoubtedly the best way to get money and power. You go, girl!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

What more would you have expected given both economic and political realities?

A backbone, to do what is so clearly necessary. But we all knew Biden wasn't that guy. But I was bullied into voting for him "to save democracy." Not again.

The planet is burning and the wealthy have hoarded all the money and power. We literally do not have time for more status quo. The octogenarians aren't going to save us.

He passed the most consequential "green" and infrastructure bills in world history. I guess that just isn't enough for you.

Enjoy Trump, who will do SOOOOOO much for the issues that concern you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Months after a ten year old was raped and forced to flee her state to get medical care, he said two sentences about abortion in the State of the Union.

He has not used the power he does have (such as investigating and prosecuting federally hospitals which fail to provide lifesaving care) to protect women in the United States.

He has said not one word about the plight of U.S. Citizens (not Palestinian civilians, U.S. Citizens) trapped in Gaza at risk of death every day right now. He hasn’t called their families. He has not called upon Israel to protect them as citizens of their ally.

That’s what’s not enough.

But here’s the thing, and I hope someone takes this to heart. A year is a long time. He could start fixing some of this tomorrow. Heck, today. But not if people around him say hey don’t worry you’re better than Trump!

He does have to win Michigan. He does have to win women. He has to start acting like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Tell that to the Federal workforce he’s rolling back benefits from right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

MAGA's squeezed out moderates from the right. Progressives will squeeze out moderates from the left. When inequality and injustice is at record levels, the moderates don't matter.

As MLK put it:

but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

Last sentence is a simpleton turning nonsense into an axiom. This pro-Biden crap is pathetic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

MAGA's squeezed out moderates from the right. Progressives will squeeze out moderates from the left. When inequality and injustice is at record levels, the moderates don't matter.

As MLK put it:

but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

In other words, you cannot make a revolution from silk gloves?

Progressive quotes are cute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Months after a ten year old was raped and forced to flee her state to get medical care, he said two sentences about abortion in the State of the Union.

He has not used the power he does have (such as investigating and prosecuting federally hospitals which fail to provide lifesaving care) to protect women in the United States.

He has said not one word about the plight of U.S. Citizens (not Palestinian civilians, U.S. Citizens) trapped in Gaza at risk of death every day right now. He hasn’t called their families. He has not called upon Israel to protect them as citizens of their ally.

That’s what’s not enough.

But here’s the thing, and I hope someone takes this to heart. A year is a long time. He could start fixing some of this tomorrow. Heck, today. But not if people around him say hey don’t worry you’re better than Trump!

He does have to win Michigan. He does have to win women. He has to start acting like it.

What more do you want him to say? He is pro Choice as a policy. He has his DOJ investigating and prosecuting where it can. The GOP set this up as a "state" issue. Biden is losing military appointments because a single GOP senator is protesting military health policy over abortion.

Again, short of having more SCOTUS appointments or more Dem Senators to pass a law codifying Roe, what do you expect him to do? You stated earlier in the thread that words are not enough, but now you are criticizing him for not saying more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

Last sentence is a simpleton turning nonsense into an axiom. This pro-Biden crap is pathetic!

Try running on "Defund the Police" and see how it goes.

Proof is in the pudding. Biden won.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Months after a ten year old was raped and forced to flee her state to get medical care, he said two sentences about abortion in the State of the Union.

He has not used the power he does have (such as investigating and prosecuting federally hospitals which fail to provide lifesaving care) to protect women in the United States.

He has said not one word about the plight of U.S. Citizens (not Palestinian civilians, U.S. Citizens) trapped in Gaza at risk of death every day right now. He hasn’t called their families. He has not called upon Israel to protect them as citizens of their ally.

That’s what’s not enough.

But here’s the thing, and I hope someone takes this to heart. A year is a long time. He could start fixing some of this tomorrow. Heck, today. But not if people around him say hey don’t worry you’re better than Trump!

He does have to win Michigan. He does have to win women. He has to start acting like it.

What more do you want him to say? He is pro Choice as a policy. He has his DOJ investigating and prosecuting where it can. The GOP set this up as a "state" issue. Biden is losing military appointments because a single GOP senator is protesting military health policy over abortion.

Again, short of having more SCOTUS appointments or more Dem Senators to pass a law codifying Roe, what do you expect him to do? You stated earlier in the thread that words are not enough, but now you are criticizing him for not saying more.

It's a progressive purity test.