To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

You mean other than immigration/borders, green energy, trans issues, and privileged access through Klain?

I care more about economic issues. Trans rights is easy. A single payer option, doing anything about wealth inequality, anything about housing affordability, and thing about the cost of health care or education. Those are hard and Biden avoided all of them. If anything Trump has more of a populist streak.

Biden has done a ton on these issues. If you are an honest broker, you would look up the legislation Biden proposed and the democrats passed (mostly without ANY GOP support) to see where things like health care costs and wealth inequality have been addressed. Biden also supported union workers, particularly those UAW who were on strike until very recently, having won gains to raise their compensation as compared to the C suite executives. He was able to get drug companies to the table with Medicaid negotiations (that the GOP is trying to undo) and his legislation increasing funding for public education and public housing block grants.

The bolded suggesting Biden has avoided these issues is just flat out wrong.

If he had a fair negotiation partner with the GOP, perhaps more could be done, but the GOP alternative is to let capitalism reign without guardrails, which means the little guy gets screwed at every turn. How is that better?

Trump supported the UAW too. That was easy. Talk to the railroad workers about Biden's union credentials

You mean the Railroad the GOP removed regulations causing deadly injuries?

If only Biden didn't bust their strike, they could have negotiated the protections they were asking for into their agreement. Biden being slightly better than trump isn't a reason to vote for him

We were trying to get out of a COVID economic shock. There was a national economic emergency as to why the railroad strike at that time would have been catastrophic. Remember the whole "supply chain" thing? We were in the middle of that.

Now that it appears as if inflation was in fact transitory, if the Railroad workers want to strike or bargain for more, by all means, go for it.

They can't. The contract he imposed has a no strike clause for the length of its term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

the progressives are fringe to the Democratic party
the evangelicals and MAGAs are core

Kind of a big difference, no?

Of course!

But if the Dems embrace (or appear to embrace) progressive positions, it will have the same effect as R's going MAGA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

I'll buy you a Trump sign so you can proudly express your beliefs to the whole world.

Is the plan to bully people into voting for your guy?

Isn't that the progressive playbook?

If you disagree with defunding the police, you're a racist!

If you express sympathy for Israel, you support genocide!

I'm just speaking to them in their own language.

So yes. Your plan is to bully and mock. Good luck with that!

As I said, I'm adopting the progressive playbook.

I'm sure that they'll embrace it, since it's how they persuade others.

Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

MAGAs are 80% of the Republican Party. We can argue about what percent of Democrats, particularly elected Democrats, are progressive but it’s more like 20% than 80%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

the progressives are fringe to the Democratic party
the evangelicals and MAGAs are core

Kind of a big difference, no?

Of course!

But if the Dems embrace (or appear to embrace) progressive positions, it will have the same effect as R's going MAGA.

This administration is as centrist liberal as one can get. What are the hyper-progessive positions being embraced?

I see funding for the police in three different Biden bills...no defunding.

What else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

I'll buy you a Trump sign so you can proudly express your beliefs to the whole world.

Is the plan to bully people into voting for your guy?

Isn't that the progressive playbook?

If you disagree with defunding the police, you're a racist!

If you express sympathy for Israel, you support genocide!

I'm just speaking to them in their own language.

So yes. Your plan is to bully and mock. Good luck with that!

As I said, I'm adopting the progressive playbook.

I'm sure that they'll embrace it, since it's how they persuade others.

Right?

Sitck it to 'em! Hope you enjoy a President Trump.

[Anonymous]

I will not vote for Biden again. Probably writing in a candidate. Biden is single handedly causing a genocide of Palestinian children in Gaza. He doesn’t deserve anyone’s votes. He deserves to be a senior living facility. He also has done nothing to improve education funding in this country and has not solved the problems of guns. He is a failure in every way and so is every Republican President!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

You mean other than immigration/borders, green energy, trans issues, and privileged access through Klain?

I care more about economic issues. Trans rights is easy. A single payer option, doing anything about wealth inequality, anything about housing affordability, and thing about the cost of health care or education. Those are hard and Biden avoided all of them. If anything Trump has more of a populist streak.

Biden has done a ton on these issues. If you are an honest broker, you would look up the legislation Biden proposed and the democrats passed (mostly without ANY GOP support) to see where things like health care costs and wealth inequality have been addressed. Biden also supported union workers, particularly those UAW who were on strike until very recently, having won gains to raise their compensation as compared to the C suite executives. He was able to get drug companies to the table with Medicaid negotiations (that the GOP is trying to undo) and his legislation increasing funding for public education and public housing block grants.

The bolded suggesting Biden has avoided these issues is just flat out wrong.

If he had a fair negotiation partner with the GOP, perhaps more could be done, but the GOP alternative is to let capitalism reign without guardrails, which means the little guy gets screwed at every turn. How is that better?

Trump supported the UAW too. That was easy. Talk to the railroad workers about Biden's union credentials

You mean the Railroad the GOP removed regulations causing deadly injuries?

If only Biden didn't bust their strike, they could have negotiated the protections they were asking for into their agreement. Biden being slightly better than trump isn't a reason to vote for him

We were trying to get out of a COVID economic shock. There was a national economic emergency as to why the railroad strike at that time would have been catastrophic. Remember the whole "supply chain" thing? We were in the middle of that.

Now that it appears as if inflation was in fact transitory, if the Railroad workers want to strike or bargain for more, by all means, go for it.

They can't. The contract he imposed has a no strike clause for the length of its term.

You don’t even know that the railroad workers got paid sick leave several months after the strike ended without having to strike again. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/10/1155763336/freight-rail-workers-union-paid-sick-leave-bernie-sanders-csx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

I'll buy you a Trump sign so you can proudly express your beliefs to the whole world.

Is the plan to bully people into voting for your guy?

Isn't that the progressive playbook?

If you disagree with defunding the police, you're a racist!

If you express sympathy for Israel, you support genocide!

I'm just speaking to them in their own language.

So yes. Your plan is to bully and mock. Good luck with that!

As I said, I'm adopting the progressive playbook.

I'm sure that they'll embrace it, since it's how they persuade others.

Right?

Sitck it to 'em! Hope you enjoy a President Trump.

Wait, I'm confused.

The progressives here have already said that they won't vote for Biden.

With their unerring and unique ability to divine the absolute truth about the whole world that none of the rest of us can see, they've decided that THEY prefer Trump.

So what's to lose?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will not vote for Biden again. Probably writing in a candidate. Biden is single handedly causing a genocide of Palestinian children in Gaza. He doesn’t deserve anyone’s votes. He deserves to be a senior living facility. He also has done nothing to improve education funding in this country and has not solved the problems of guns. He is a failure in every way and so is every Republican President!

So you are blaming Biden for 1) Hamas reignighting the fighting and 2) Israel trying to eradicate Hamas.

How about "Hey Hamas, stop violating international law and using hospitals and schools as shields for your wartime activities?"

He has absolutely increased education funding, you just aren't paying attention.

He has done as much as a president can without a Congress to help, in terms of guns. He is not an authoritarian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

the progressives are fringe to the Democratic party
the evangelicals and MAGAs are core

Kind of a big difference, no?

Of course!

But if the Dems embrace (or appear to embrace) progressive positions, it will have the same effect as R's going MAGA.

This administration is as centrist liberal as one can get. What are the hyper-progessive positions being embraced?

I see funding for the police in three different Biden bills...no defunding.

What else?

I agree: this has been a center-left admin, which I support.

But we have the progressives here saying that they won't vote for Biden b/c of his centrism.

My point is that if Biden moves left to appease the progressives, he'll lose the middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

which is what? Hillary was a great candidate - lots of experience, well educated, etc.

DP but the lesson is you need to be more than better than the other candidate because they’re a catastrophe— you have to be, on your own merits, able to appeal to the voters you need. In Hilary’s case that was progressive voters and women. She didn’t make that case, she didn’t do real outreach to the Bernie supporters and…she lost.

I voted for her but I was literally horrified how she blithely dismissed the women who (correctly) accused her husband of sexual misconduct. As an assault survivor— like up to 1 in 3 women— she did not seem credible to me. And she lost.

So the lesson is when you’re losing support of the Progressives and women you can’t take their votes for granted you have to fix your candidate!

And lose all the centrists.

Progressives are a millstone around the Democratic party's neck.

And what are the MAGAs and Evangelicals to the Republican party?

The base.

But yes, MAGAs are why Trump lost in 2020. The center rejected them.

Progressives present exactly the same problem for the Dems.

Any candidate who embraces progressive policies will lose the center, and any national election.

the progressives are fringe to the Democratic party
the evangelicals and MAGAs are core

Kind of a big difference, no?

Of course!

But if the Dems embrace (or appear to embrace) progressive positions, it will have the same effect as R's going MAGA.

This administration is as centrist liberal as one can get. What are the hyper-progessive positions being embraced?

I see funding for the police in three different Biden bills...no defunding.

What else?

I agree: this has been a center-left admin, which I support.

But we have the progressives here saying that they won't vote for Biden b/c of his centrism.

My point is that if Biden moves left to appease the progressives, he'll lose the middle.

Biden is who he is. He isn't moving to the left. Look at the DCUM thread about the State Department employees who have resigned because he isn't dojng enough for Hamas. It is tough being a centrist, you get attacked from both sides.

At some point, the progressives will either have to realize that incremental change is acceptable, or else deal with living under the likes of Trump for a long time.