Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nothing less than closing the TJ magnet, reclaiming the school for the local community, and county-wide redistricting is acceptable. Either FCPS cares about equity or it does not. TJ does not mitigate pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education; it magnifies them.

Okay, so you're on board with a countywide redistricting to have equity in base schools to mitigate the pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education, too. Got it.

If they had another neighborhood school, it would require boundary changes and create redistributing opportunities not otherwise available.

TJ, of course, has turned out to be a uniquely self-inflicted wound by FCPS.

You can make all sorts of boundary changes and redistributing opportunities possible if there is a priority of mitigating "pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education," as that PP expresses is of concern to her. So, no need to just focus on the neighborhood around TJ -- do it countywide. I am 100% certain that none of the posters on here so outraged about TJ demographics would support such a thing. It's hypocrisy and it's based, in part, on anti-Asian racism.

TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho

The “anti-Asian” claim is a red herring advanced as often as not by White parents whose own kids attend or attended TJ and who are perfectly fine with the decades-long near-total exclusion of Black and Hispanic kids. Of course, there are some Asians posting on this thread who also enjoy their kids’ privileged status within FCPS and are indifferent to TJ’s negative impact on other FCPS students.

Actually, TJ has a positive impact on students in the northern Virginia.

It fosters hyper-competitive behavior and cheating.

It sends a message to non-Asian kids, especially Black and Hispanic kids, that they are inferior.

It contributes to overcrowding and longer commutes for other FCPS high school students.

It encourages FCPS to ignore other schools as long as it can point to one highly ranked school.

It fosters hyper-competitive behavior and cheating.- No it does not. TJ encourages and promotes academics more than sports which SCHOOLS are supposed to do. After all, the main purpose of a high school is to educate kids first before sports or ECs. Also, it is not true that TJ has more cheating than other schools and that is racist to assume that Asians cheat. Asians have the lowest crime rate of any groups in the country.

It sends a message to non-Asian kids, especially Black and Hispanic kids, that they are inferior.- No it does not. In fact, fcps bends over backwards to actively go out of its way to recruit black and hisoanic kids to apply to TJ and the specific programs to do so were posted earlier.

It contributes to overcrowding and longer commutes for other FCPS high school students. - No it does not. There would be more overcrowding and commuting issues for the base schools without TJ.

It encourages FCPS to ignore other schools as long as it can point to one highly ranked school. - No it does not. TJ partnership pays for the extra equipment and other facilities and parents make substantial donations for programs and materials at TJ. In addition, surrounding jurisdictions also pay substantial amounts each year to fcps for their students attending TJ which is a plus for fcps.

The cheating at TJ is legion is legion and regularly discussed on TJVents, by TJ students at School Board meetings, and among parents in the communities that send kids to TJ.

Again, TJ may discuss cheating more than other schools but that does not mean there is more cheating going on at TJ. If you go on the fcps website, you will see that TJ enjoys the fewest infractions of any hifg schools in the county. Stop assuming Asians cheat-that is racist.

If you don’t think the paltry admission of non-Asian students to TJ and the mistreatment of the Black and Hispanic students who attend has not sent a message to those kids that they are unwelcome - and that participation in these half-hearted attempts to create a level playing field are a farce - then you are simply delusional.

What mistreatment of Black and Hispanic students? Do you mean the elaborate and fictitious account of the proven to be false account of the supposed black TJ student postings that were posted in this forum recently? I think Asian students at TJ are at times harassed and assaulted by black student(s) at TJ.


TJ only educated about 1300 county students, when it could accommodate over 2000 county students, and thus contributes to the overcrowding at other schools.

You forget that TJ is a VA Governor's school for the benefit of all of the surrounding jurisdictions not just for the benefit of fcps. Dont't act like TJ belongs to fairfax county only.

The contributions of the TJ Partnership Fund and the enrollment fees paid by other jurisdictions only inure to the benefit of TJ. As stated, this enables FCPS to ignore the poor conditions at, and performance of, other schools, because they can always say they must be doing something right if TJ is highly ranked. Never mind that similarly situated jurisdictions that actually care about equity, rather than simply talk about it, eschew such magnet schools in favor of focusing on all their schools. FCPS could be asking businesses to support FCPS generally, but those efforts are handicapped by the targeted appeals of the Partnership Fund to businesses to support a single, high-profile school.

TJ promotes rigorous academics, studying and other activities related to academics for all of the surrounding counties. Do you want to promote partying, bullying, drug use, sex, playing video games etc. instead of studying or activities related to studying for high school students. Most people would find it strange that you are complaining that we have a high performing high school in the area that promotes academic achievement LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing less than closing the TJ magnet, reclaiming the school for the local community, and county-wide redistricting is acceptable. Either FCPS cares about equity or it does not. TJ does not mitigate pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education; it magnifies them.

Okay, so you're on board with a countywide redistricting to have equity in base schools to mitigate the pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education, too. Got it.

If they had another neighborhood school, it would require boundary changes and create redistributing opportunities not otherwise available.

TJ, of course, has turned out to be a uniquely self-inflicted wound by FCPS.

You can make all sorts of boundary changes and redistributing opportunities possible if there is a priority of mitigating "pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education," as that PP expresses is of concern to her. So, no need to just focus on the neighborhood around TJ -- do it countywide. I am 100% certain that none of the posters on here so outraged about TJ demographics would support such a thing. It's hypocrisy and it's based, in part, on anti-Asian racism.

TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho

The “anti-Asian” claim is a red herring advanced as often as not by White parents whose own kids attend or attended TJ and who are perfectly fine with the decades-long near-total exclusion of Black and Hispanic kids. Of course, there are some Asians posting on this thread who also enjoy their kids’ privileged status within FCPS and are indifferent to TJ’s negative impact on other FCPS students.

Actually, TJ has a positive impact on students in the northern Virginia.

It fosters hyper-competitive behavior and cheating.

It sends a message to non-Asian kids, especially Black and Hispanic kids, that they are inferior.

It contributes to overcrowding and longer commutes for other FCPS high school students.

It encourages FCPS to ignore other schools as long as it can point to one highly ranked school.

It fosters hyper-competitive behavior and cheating.- No it does not. TJ encourages and promotes academics more than sports which SCHOOLS are supposed to do. After all, the main purpose of a high school is to educate kids first before sports or ECs. Also, it is not true that TJ has more cheating than other schools and that is racist to assume that Asians cheat. Asians have the lowest crime rate of any groups in the country.

It sends a message to non-Asian kids, especially Black and Hispanic kids, that they are inferior.- No it does not. In fact, fcps bends over backwards to actively go out of its way to recruit black and hisoanic kids to apply to TJ and the specific programs to do so were posted earlier.

It contributes to overcrowding and longer commutes for other FCPS high school students. - No it does not. There would be more overcrowding and commuting issues for the base schools without TJ.

It encourages FCPS to ignore other schools as long as it can point to one highly ranked school. - No it does not. TJ partnership pays for the extra equipment and other facilities and parents make substantial donations for programs and materials at TJ. In addition, surrounding jurisdictions also pay substantial amounts each year to fcps for their students attending TJ which is a plus for fcps.

Literally every response in here is wrong except for the last one.

[Anonymous]

Here's an idea:
Each year, there are probably 50-100 TJ applicants who are clearly better than the rest. Admit those. Then, the remaining semi-finalists are all going to be fairly comparable. So, lottery off the remaining spots to the semi-finalists, but in a racially and gender balanced way.

This would let the truly elite kids into TJ, but it would also increase diversity among the remainder of the student body, considering that among the TJ applicants, #101 - 1000 are all probably pretty comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agree. And high school sports teams should also be based on lottery.

The whole notion of arbitrary tryouts that skew towards athletes that have been prepped is unjust and racist.

All kids deserve the chance to play on the teams and with equal playing time. The diversity of the team will only make the team better.

What about the school orchestra? Too many Asians practice a lot, take private music lessons, and play their instruments at a higher level. Instead, they should place kids who aren't very good at their instruments and don't practice much into the top orchestra so they can increase diversity. Who cares if the orchestra sounds any good? /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Agree. And high school sports teams should also be based on lottery.

The whole notion of arbitrary tryouts that skew towards athletes that have been prepped is unjust and racist.

All kids deserve the chance to play on the teams and with equal playing time. The diversity of the team will only make the team better.

What about the school orchestra? Too many Asians practice a lot, take private music lessons, and play their instruments at a higher level. Instead, they should place kids who aren't very good at their instruments and don't practice much into the top orchestra so they can increase diversity. Who cares if the orchestra sounds any good? /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's an idea:
Each year, there are probably 50-100 TJ applicants who are clearly better than the rest. Admit those. Then, the remaining semi-finalists are all going to be fairly comparable. So, lottery off the remaining spots to the semi-finalists, but in a racially and gender balanced way.

This would let the truly elite kids into TJ, but it would also increase diversity among the remainder of the student body, considering that among the TJ applicants, #101 - 1000 are all probably pretty comparable.

This is pretty much 100% correct. There are the cream of the crop, and there's a lot of commonality among the rest of the semifinalists.

[Anonymous]

So is the goal here to get rid of anything merit-based and if the result is that affluent families leave Fairfax County, that would be okay? Honestly our great school system (to include TJ and AAP) and everything positive that flows from it would go away and turn Fairfax County into Prince William County. No thanks. We need to work on raising everyone up, NOT changing the criteria and lowering the standards so that everyone meets a lowered standard.

[Anonymous]

Cheating at TJ: https://www.tjtoday.org/19690/uncategorized/integrity-violation-lecture-reminds-students-of-the-cost-of-cheating/

Minimal acceptance of Black and Hispanic kids at TJ: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

Unwelcoming environment for Black and Hispanic kids at TJ: https://youtu.be/2WXeHe_TTH4

Ownership of 6560 Braddock Road (TJ) by FCPS (not state): https://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/Datalets/Datalet.aspx?sIndex=0&idx=1

Overcrowding at Other FCPS High Schools: https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Adopted-CIP-FY2021-25.pdf

Neglect of Other FCPS Schools: https://annandaleva.blogspot.com/2015/10/stuart-hs-fails-to-achieve-full.html?m=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is the goal here to get rid of anything merit-based and if the result is that affluent families leave Fairfax County, that would be okay? Honestly our great school system (to include TJ and AAP) and everything positive that flows from it would go away and turn Fairfax County into Prince William County. No thanks. We need to work on raising everyone up, NOT changing the criteria and lowering the standards so that everyone meets a lowered standard.

Seems like a total straw-man argument.

[Anonymous]

Posters have said on this thread over and over again that TJ should be closed or students admitted without high standards (ie. by lottery). That isnt a strawman argument. People are actually arguing to lower standards or close completely. I guess if high performers can't have nice things, no one can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I vote for closing TJ.

You gots to find that polling booth first Don't forget that mask or are you doing a mail-in vote?

[Anonymous]

whether anyone wants to believe it or not having the number #1 school in the entire country in your backyard does help all students in the system. Pushing out the high performers wont do anything but leave the system with low performing students. But I guess that is the goal. As long as the low performers don't have to see the high performers winning. Good luck on keeping the tax base needed to financially help those low performers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is the goal here to get rid of anything merit-based and if the result is that affluent families leave Fairfax County, that would be okay? Honestly our great school system (to include TJ and AAP) and everything positive that flows from it would go away and turn Fairfax County into Prince William County. No thanks. We need to work on raising everyone up, NOT changing the criteria and lowering the standards so that everyone meets a lowered standard.

How does a lottery, entry determined by successfully passing the qualification exams, essays and letters of recommendations, make the acceptance process not merit based?

Essentially, the regular selection process gets to the point where a committee of people would go through and make a subjective decision. In the lottery, the applicants would get to that point and then selection would be based on a lottery. Lottery slots are assigned to each middle school. If there are more available slots then kids who made the cut to be included in the lottery, those slots move to a general lottery pool.

What you are saying is that you like the current process because you think your child will pass the exams, write great essays, and have solid letters of recommendation. You are counting on your child being one of the selected 500. So the current process works for you. Or, the process has already worked for you. In the lottery situation, your child has a diminished chance if they are at Carson or one of the other TJ Feeders in favor of qualified candidates from other middle schools that are not massive feeders.

That doesn't mean that the kids in the lottery from other MS have not passed the hurdles to be considered in the final round by the committee. They have passed the merit test just like your kid. Instead of having a group of people compare resumes, some that are packed with activities that are not available to everyone, the lottery chooses the finalists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Posters have said on this thread over and over again that TJ should be closed or students admitted without high standards (ie. by lottery). That isnt a strawman argument. People are actually arguing to lower standards or close completely. I guess if high performers can't have nice things, no one can.

We could have a lottery where the admitted students were still qualified, or we could close TJHSST and still have nice (or nicer) things. Those who simply defend the current situation as ideal will do more to hasten the school’s closure than those who advocate for a new process.

[Anonymous]

No dog in the hunt (in crappy MCPS) but an observation: if Fairfax is anything like MoCo the new immigration patterns (South Korean, South Asian and Russian) made TJ much more competitive than in the 1990s. That’s good. I bet half of the TJ class in the 90s wouldn’t be admitted today. Instead of lowering standards, why doesn’t FCPS copy military academies and create a one year ‘academy’ for those who want to go for TJ? You would take an intensive ‘catch up’ program in 8th grade - maybe even include a summer program sit the same test as Tiger parents’ kids and see if you could get in. Win. Win. I’m actually for abolishing magnets - they are simply there to hide the rot of public schools systems that have grown too large.