Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cheating at TJ: https://www.tjtoday.org/19690/uncategorized/integrity-violation-lecture-reminds-students-of-the-cost-of-cheating/

No one disputes there may be cheating going on at TJ but you have not shown that there is significantly more cheating at TJ compared to other schools. However, it is a fact that TJ enjoys the fewest school infractions of all the high schools in the county. LOL.

Minimal acceptance of Black and Hispanic kids at TJ: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

No one is disputing this either. You must be running out of arguments.

Unwelcoming environment for Black and Hispanic kids at TJ: https://youtu.be/2WXeHe_TTH4

You have to pinpoint where the relevant segment begins in this 2 hours and 22 minutes video.

Ownership of 6560 Braddock Road (TJ) by FCPS (not state): https://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/Datalets/Datalet.aspx?sIndex=0&idx=1

Link doesn't work. Regardless of which entity owns the building, the point is that TJ is a regional governor's school NOT fcps high school. Pay more attention.

Overcrowding at Other FCPS High Schools: https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Adopted-CIP-FY2021-25.pdf

Again, no dispute there.

Neglect of Other FCPS Schools: https://annandaleva.blogspot.com/2015/10/stuart-hs-fails-to-achieve-full.html?m=1

No dispute there. In fact, TJ was one of the last high school to be renovated in fairfax county. Again, TJ Partnership paid lot of money and the surrounding counties also paid lot of money as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters have said on this thread over and over again that TJ should be closed or students admitted without high standards (ie. by lottery). That isnt a strawman argument. People are actually arguing to lower standards or close completely. I guess if high performers can't have nice things, no one can.

We could have a lottery where the admitted students were still qualified, or we could close TJHSST and still have nice (or nicer) things. Those who simply defend the current situation as ideal will do more to hasten the school’s closure than those who advocate for a new process.

Exactly. Find a way to make it accessible to more people or lose it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters have said on this thread over and over again that TJ should be closed or students admitted without high standards (ie. by lottery). That isnt a strawman argument. People are actually arguing to lower standards or close completely. I guess if high performers can't have nice things, no one can.

We could have a lottery where the admitted students were still qualified, or we could close TJHSST and still have nice (or nicer) things. Those who simply defend the current situation as ideal will do more to hasten the school’s closure than those who advocate for a new process.

Exactly. Find a way to make it accessible to more people or lose it.

I can't believe you people are actually real.

[Anonymous]

No if special ed kids can’t have nice things than DEFINITELY high performers shouldn’t either. Frankly, the ‘Matthew effect’ is already in play for the high performers. So I for one do not lose sleep over brilliant Larla not getting to hang with brilliant Larlo at TJ. They can find each other at South Lakes in the Math Olympiad club...

[Anonymous]

As an immigrant from Eastern Europe, who finished a "special" (i.e. advanced) school, I see this whole discussion from a different perspective. Many ex Soviet countries have special public schools for gifted in different disciplines (math, languages, music, ballet, etc). They are very competitive and kids prepare for those from a very young age. Preparing is necessary and something that is actually measured and taken into account (how many years did you compete in the math competitions, how many years did you play the instrument etc). It is something which is considered very positive and shows that the kid is a hard working student. Also, teachers believe that intelligence and gifts can be developed and improved and they will never accept a kid who is not ready. To prepare for a math school, kids have workbooks starting from (if I remember well) second grade. Every workbook has 200 - 300 problems, and by 8th grade, the books have about 500 problems. You must do every single problem from those books during the academic year. On top of that, you have to take extra classes and to finish extra books. The kids have to take an exam in the end of the 8th grade. Kids with top-200 results are accepted into the school. You don't submit a name or school (race, gender and ethnicity are unknown), and it is double blind. You get a number, and search for your score based on that number. The school is very difficult and you can easily fail a grade if you don't prepare for it.

I don't think that preparation is a bad thing. Give every single ES kid a workbook to do over the course of the year to prepare, and then test them. You won't get better equity than that if your goal is to build an intelligent future generation with healthy attitudes about education.

Just my 2 cents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters have said on this thread over and over again that TJ should be closed or students admitted without high standards (ie. by lottery). That isnt a strawman argument. People are actually arguing to lower standards or close completely. I guess if high performers can't have nice things, no one can.

We could have a lottery where the admitted students were still qualified, or we could close TJHSST and still have nice (or nicer) things. Those who simply defend the current situation as ideal will do more to hasten the school’s closure than those who advocate for a new process.

Exactly. Find a way to make it accessible to more people or lose it.

+1000. Based on the hostility and arrogance on display in this thread, I hope they close it.

[Anonymous]

Even if the proposed lottery pool is composed of those who are qualified by today's standards of admission, the bigger issue is that some of these kids who we are changing the rules to allow in STILL wont meet the higher standard and would not be in this potential lottery pool. Kids need to be preparing and working at a higher level from elementary, not just starting in 7th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant from Eastern Europe, who finished a "special" (i.e. advanced) school, I see this whole discussion from a different perspective. Many ex Soviet countries have special public schools for gifted in different disciplines (math, languages, music, ballet, etc). They are very competitive and kids prepare for those from a very young age. Preparing is necessary and something that is actually measured and taken into account (how many years did you compete in the math competitions, how many years did you play the instrument etc). It is something which is considered very positive and shows that the kid is a hard working student. Also, teachers believe that intelligence and gifts can be developed and improved and they will never accept a kid who is not ready. To prepare for a math school, kids have workbooks starting from (if I remember well) second grade. Every workbook has 200 - 300 problems, and by 8th grade, the books have about 500 problems. You must do every single problem from those books during the academic year. On top of that, you have to take extra classes and to finish extra books. The kids have to take an exam in the end of the 8th grade. Kids with top-200 results are accepted into the school. You don't submit a name or school (race, gender and ethnicity are unknown), and it is double blind. You get a number, and search for your score based on that number. The school is very difficult and you can easily fail a grade if you don't prepare for it.

I don't think that preparation is a bad thing. Give every single ES kid a workbook to do over the course of the year to prepare, and then test them. You won't get better equity than that if your goal is to build an intelligent future generation with healthy attitudes about education.

Just my 2 cents.

A system with the rigidity of Soviet Russia and the test-prep fanaticism of Asian countries doesn’t seem particularly enticing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant from Eastern Europe, who finished a "special" (i.e. advanced) school, I see this whole discussion from a different perspective. Many ex Soviet countries have special public schools for gifted in different disciplines (math, languages, music, ballet, etc). They are very competitive and kids prepare for those from a very young age. Preparing is necessary and something that is actually measured and taken into account (how many years did you compete in the math competitions, how many years did you play the instrument etc). It is something which is considered very positive and shows that the kid is a hard working student. Also, teachers believe that intelligence and gifts can be developed and improved and they will never accept a kid who is not ready. To prepare for a math school, kids have workbooks starting from (if I remember well) second grade. Every workbook has 200 - 300 problems, and by 8th grade, the books have about 500 problems. You must do every single problem from those books during the academic year. On top of that, you have to take extra classes and to finish extra books. The kids have to take an exam in the end of the 8th grade. Kids with top-200 results are accepted into the school. You don't submit a name or school (race, gender and ethnicity are unknown), and it is double blind. You get a number, and search for your score based on that number. The school is very difficult and you can easily fail a grade if you don't prepare for it.

I don't think that preparation is a bad thing. Give every single ES kid a workbook to do over the course of the year to prepare, and then test them. You won't get better equity than that if your goal is to build an intelligent future generation with healthy attitudes about education.

Just my 2 cents.

A system with the rigidity of Soviet Russia and the test-prep fanaticism of Asian countries doesn’t seem particularly enticing.

I don't disagree with you, but we still get very well-paying jobs here because there aren't enough qualified native-born Americans who know how to do them. And with the way people view education here, the situation will get worse and worse.

[Anonymous]

That’s what you already have it seems if you look at TJ’s demographics...

[Anonymous]

I dare the SJW and white guilt woke whites to try and mess with admissions

Yale Discriminated by Race in Undergraduate Admissions, Justice Department Says
Federal officials give university two weeks to agree to adjust practices or face lawsuit after probe finds white, Asian-American applicants rejected based on race

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-finds-yale-discriminated-based-on-race-in-undergraduate-admissions-11597351675?fbclid=IwAR27nuVC6qeQBosKUZYKftNfgqyUd3GrN-FVSYmdPK9wnyWquk9sKjxQHJc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant from Eastern Europe, who finished a "special" (i.e. advanced) school, I see this whole discussion from a different perspective. Many ex Soviet countries have special public schools for gifted in different disciplines (math, languages, music, ballet, etc). They are very competitive and kids prepare for those from a very young age. Preparing is necessary and something that is actually measured and taken into account (how many years did you compete in the math competitions, how many years did you play the instrument etc). It is something which is considered very positive and shows that the kid is a hard working student. Also, teachers believe that intelligence and gifts can be developed and improved and they will never accept a kid who is not ready. To prepare for a math school, kids have workbooks starting from (if I remember well) second grade. Every workbook has 200 - 300 problems, and by 8th grade, the books have about 500 problems. You must do every single problem from those books during the academic year. On top of that, you have to take extra classes and to finish extra books. The kids have to take an exam in the end of the 8th grade. Kids with top-200 results are accepted into the school. You don't submit a name or school (race, gender and ethnicity are unknown), and it is double blind. You get a number, and search for your score based on that number. The school is very difficult and you can easily fail a grade if you don't prepare for it.

I don't think that preparation is a bad thing. Give every single ES kid a workbook to do over the course of the year to prepare, and then test them. You won't get better equity than that if your goal is to build an intelligent future generation with healthy attitudes about education.

Just my 2 cents.

A system with the rigidity of Soviet Russia and the test-prep fanaticism of Asian countries doesn’t seem particularly enticing.

I don't disagree with you, but we still get very well-paying jobs here because there aren't enough qualified native-born Americans who know how to do them. And with the way people view education here, the situation will get worse and worse.

And yet those jobs are here, not Bulgaria.

If you want to have more STEM workers, you don’t necessarily just shine a light on one high school in a county with 1.2 million people and almost 200,000 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dare the SJW and white guilt woke whites to try and mess with admissions

Yale Discriminated by Race in Undergraduate Admissions, Justice Department Says
Federal officials give university two weeks to agree to adjust practices or face lawsuit after probe finds white, Asian-American applicants rejected based on race

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-finds-yale-discriminated-based-on-race-in-undergraduate-admissions-11597351675?fbclid=IwAR27nuVC6qeQBosKUZYKftNfgqyUd3GrN-FVSYmdPK9wnyWquk9sKjxQHJc

Yale will contest, as Harvard successfully did, and not cave to this election-year pandering. This will likely never make it to court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even if the proposed lottery pool is composed of those who are qualified by today's standards of admission, the bigger issue is that some of these kids who we are changing the rules to allow in STILL wont meet the higher standard and would not be in this potential lottery pool. Kids need to be preparing and working at a higher level from elementary, not just starting in 7th grade.

yup this has been tried multiple times this century already. Whenever you let a more diverse pool in the talent goes down and you have to add remedial classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant from Eastern Europe, who finished a "special" (i.e. advanced) school, I see this whole discussion from a different perspective. Many ex Soviet countries have special public schools for gifted in different disciplines (math, languages, music, ballet, etc). They are very competitive and kids prepare for those from a very young age. Preparing is necessary and something that is actually measured and taken into account (how many years did you compete in the math competitions, how many years did you play the instrument etc). It is something which is considered very positive and shows that the kid is a hard working student. Also, teachers believe that intelligence and gifts can be developed and improved and they will never accept a kid who is not ready. To prepare for a math school, kids have workbooks starting from (if I remember well) second grade. Every workbook has 200 - 300 problems, and by 8th grade, the books have about 500 problems. You must do every single problem from those books during the academic year. On top of that, you have to take extra classes and to finish extra books. The kids have to take an exam in the end of the 8th grade. Kids with top-200 results are accepted into the school. You don't submit a name or school (race, gender and ethnicity are unknown), and it is double blind. You get a number, and search for your score based on that number. The school is very difficult and you can easily fail a grade if you don't prepare for it.

I don't think that preparation is a bad thing. Give every single ES kid a workbook to do over the course of the year to prepare, and then test them. You won't get better equity than that if your goal is to build an intelligent future generation with healthy attitudes about education.

Just my 2 cents.

I actually like this.