Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

Read todays article posted at WTOP

I'm on the fence. The best approach to improve the number of black and hispanic students is to get them prepared sooner. Second, third grade etc. Too late in seventh grade to begin this process and make a serious effort, as most public school Gen Ed is terribly diluted today. That preparation actually commences much earlier - preschool, or from birth with reading, puzzles, games that stimulate. But, that's another topic for discussion. I agree with the author that there is an entire industry devoted to test prep that, sadly, mostly benefits families with the resources to invest in the development of their child each year for several year overs. This is across the spectrum of education where admission testing is King. On the other hand, other families make serious monetary, social, and professional sacrifices to prepare their child(ren) for admission to the most competitive academic programs.

The worse part of this is the potential stigma attached to those kids who gain admission to TJ.

My child is an AAP lvl 4 student, and though we use AoPS and private tutors, I'm really more in favor of the MYIB/IB program at the assigned middle and high schools. I personally don't envision the mad test prep for TJ.

Your thoughts?

[Anonymous]

The admissions process *has* to change. Those in favor of the status quo make comments dripping in racism saying they don’t want to “lower standards” and keep admissions “merit-based”. These people are claiming that in the counties that feed into TJ, less than 20 Black and Hispanic students are “good enough”. Do they not recognize how utterly racist this is?? There are more than 450 students who could do well at TJ. Heck, I’m sure just about everyone who applies is a top-performing student at their middle school. It’s so obvious that these families against change just don’t want Black and Hispanic kids at their school. They need to just come out and say it because they’re doing a bad job masking their true intentions.

[Anonymous]

OP again. It's pertinent to add that I'm neither Asian nor white. Though, my child had all 4's and a 99 percentile CoGAT when admitted to level 4. Admitted on merit was the only way I would do it.

[Anonymous]

Shouldn't admission be based on merit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The admissions process *has* to change. Those in favor of the status quo make comments dripping in racism saying they don’t want to “lower standards” and keep admissions “merit-based”. These people are claiming that in the counties that feed into TJ, less than 20 Black and Hispanic students are “good enough”. Do they not recognize how utterly racist this is?? There are more than 450 students who could do well at TJ. Heck, I’m sure just about everyone who applies is a top-performing student at their middle school. It’s so obvious that these families against change just don’t want Black and Hispanic kids at their school. They need to just come out and say it because they’re doing a bad job masking their true intentions.

I would argue most of the students applying from Carson and Longfellow are not top-performing students at their middle schools given that there are about 150-200 each every year.

[Anonymous]

As an AAP teacher, I see too many kids who are admitted to the program and whose math or reading skills are below grade level. It's true, and it needs to be fixed. These kids struggle to keep up. It's not fair to them - it's not meeting their needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't admission be based on merit?

OP here.

Merit indeed. I am most confident that the 2 and 3 percent admitted are very, very well qualified. Modifying these numbers in the future may become detrimental. In some academic disciplines you can make this adjustment, but in math and the hard sciences not so much. You either get it or you don't. I'm a proud alum of the ivy league and while a student I experienced some super bright people from across the globe, and today I see my peers and others I've crossed paths with leading some impressive lives and doing extremely important science based work.

The issue will become the appropriate metric to determine preparedness for the rigors of TJ. Is test prep overkill? Are these kids going well beyond what's really needed to succeed? I don't know and only TJ can fully answer this. Though, for me, with young minds you have to push the limit and maximize potential. It's a super competitive world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The admissions process *has* to change. Those in favor of the status quo make comments dripping in racism saying they don’t want to “lower standards” and keep admissions “merit-based”. These people are claiming that in the counties that feed into TJ, less than 20 Black and Hispanic students are “good enough”. Do they not recognize how utterly racist this is?? There are more than 450 students who could do well at TJ. Heck, I’m sure just about everyone who applies is a top-performing student at their middle school. It’s so obvious that these families against change just don’t want Black and Hispanic kids at their school. They need to just come out and say it because they’re doing a bad job masking their true intentions.

Are you saying that it is racist to be good at something?

I bet you're the poster who likes an interesting doctor!

[Anonymous]

If we can’t make access to TJ fair then we should shut it down. Fix it or lose it altogether.

[Anonymous]

If the whole argument is that some families use test prep while others don’t, then this isn’t about race.

Test prep should be offered to all. The admissions will still be merit based.

The playing field is level of everyone has equal access to test prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the whole argument is that some families use test prep while others don’t, then this isn’t about race.

Test prep should be offered to all. The admissions will still be merit based.

The playing field is level of everyone has equal access to test prep.

are you going to offer the same level of prep that people pay thousands for for free? What about the supplemental math classes starting in early elementary - are you going to subsidize those?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we can’t make access to TJ fair then we should shut it down. Fix it or lose it altogether.

You forgot to explain your definition of 'fair.' Is it scoring a certain amount on a test? Scoring a certain amount on a test plus having an Ivy League quality extra-curricular resume in middle school (which is kind of what the current standard is)? Accurately representing the racial and economic make-up of the county? Not including students from Prince William, Arlington, Faquier, and Loudon? Including them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can’t make access to TJ fair then we should shut it down. Fix it or lose it altogether.

You forgot to explain your definition of 'fair.' Is it scoring a certain amount on a test? Scoring a certain amount on a test plus having an Ivy League quality extra-curricular resume in middle school (which is kind of what the current standard is)? Accurately representing the racial and economic make-up of the county? Not including students from Prince William, Arlington, Faquier, and Loudon? Including them?

the extra-curricular resume is a reflection of the parent not the kid at that age - unless your saying admission should reflect a parent's drive and resources

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the whole argument is that some families use test prep while others don’t, then this isn’t about race.

Test prep should be offered to all. The admissions will still be merit based.

The playing field is level of everyone has equal access to test prep.

are you going to offer the same level of prep that people pay thousands for for free? What about the supplemental math classes starting in early elementary - are you going to subsidize those?

Demanding the schools step up with better math programming and changing it so every kid gets AAP math curriculum would be a better change for equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the whole argument is that some families use test prep while others don’t, then this isn’t about race.

Test prep should be offered to all. The admissions will still be merit based.

The playing field is level of everyone has equal access to test prep.

are you going to offer the same level of prep that people pay thousands for for free? What about the supplemental math classes starting in early elementary - are you going to subsidize those?

Poor chinese in NYC pay out of pocket. Look into the demographics at Stuyvesant and Bronx Science. They're both 70% asian AND over 50% free lunch.