Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AOPS, kumon, etc are so worthless in admission to TJ and success there then why do people pay for those programs? I’ll wait.

My Asian kid did none of those and I bought him SAT workbook to practice and that was it as far as preparing for the TJ admission. I don’t know anyone who does those activities in middle school.

So you admit you prepped your kid? Typical

If the PP who bought the SAT workbook was white, he/she would be seen as someone who supported their kid in a non-helicopter way, by buying a single book. But because this person said they're Asian, the other PP gets indignant and says that's "typical." For buying a book? These reactions are amusing double standards and people searching to justify a reason to look down on a student body and parent group that is significantly Asian. If it makes you feel better to write this stuff out on an anonymous forum, then I guess go ahead. But I don't think the students and parents at this school really care.

No, it’s just typical that PP states she didn’t send her kids to Kumon, etc. but then admits she prepped her kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho"

Heartily disagree. One school is not addressing the vast inequities in FCPS. In fact, it's less of an equity problem because it's based on merit not wealth.

False. TJ has the lowest percentage of FARMS students of any high school in FCPS, including Langley.

TJ admits students whose parents have wealth, education and a particular mindset, which then gets called “merit.”

No. Most Asians who attend TJ are not from wealthy families but from middle class or lower middle class.

You can keep repeating this and you will still be wrong. Lower middle class kids qualify for FARMS.

48 Contiguous States and D.C. Poverty Guidelines (Annual)100% 133% 138% 150%

Persons in Household 100% 133% 138% 150%

4 $26,200 $34,846 $36,156 $39,300

Above is the 133% to 150% of the poverty rate which will qualify a family for FARMS program fora family of 4.

Yes, most Asian families attending TJ are MIDDLE or LOWER MIDDLE class and thus earn more than $26,200 or $39,300 per year for 4 member household. Hardly a wealthy family in northern Virginia. Stop digging yourself a hole that is getting deeper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho"

Heartily disagree. One school is not addressing the vast inequities in FCPS. In fact, it's less of an equity problem because it's based on merit not wealth.

merit just happens to not include FARMs students?

+1 At multiple junctures the TJ admissions process favors wealth, or at least parental commitment to spending money on enrichment.

One of the first steps toward making TJ admissions more equitable would be to strip out every element of the admissions package that is a proxy for wealth, starting with extracurricular achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho"

Heartily disagree. One school is not addressing the vast inequities in FCPS. In fact, it's less of an equity problem because it's based on merit not wealth.

merit just happens to not include FARMs students?

+1 At multiple junctures the TJ admissions process favors wealth, or at least parental commitment to spending money on enrichment.

One of the first steps toward making TJ admissions more equitable would be to strip out every element of the admissions package that is a proxy for wealth, starting with extracurricular achievement.

that's already been taken out

I think the most extreme people on both sides need to calm down, understand steps that have already been taken

what has been tried in the past and failed (google for examples)

and quit trying to think they are going to convince someone on an online forum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho"

Heartily disagree. One school is not addressing the vast inequities in FCPS. In fact, it's less of an equity problem because it's based on merit not wealth.

merit just happens to not include FARMs students?

+1 At multiple junctures the TJ admissions process favors wealth, or at least parental commitment to spending money on enrichment.

One of the first steps toward making TJ admissions more equitable would be to strip out every element of the admissions package that is a proxy for wealth, starting with extracurricular achievement.

Does that include middle school after school activities like Math Counts, AMC, Science Olympiad, etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing less than closing the TJ magnet, reclaiming the school for the local community, and county-wide redistricting is acceptable. Either FCPS cares about equity or it does not. TJ does not mitigate pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education; it magnifies them.

Okay, so you're on board with a countywide redistricting to have equity in base schools to mitigate the pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education, too. Got it.

If they had another neighborhood school, it would require boundary changes and create redistributing opportunities not otherwise available.

TJ, of course, has turned out to be a uniquely self-inflicted wound by FCPS.

You can make all sorts of boundary changes and redistributing opportunities possible if there is a priority of mitigating "pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education," as that PP expresses is of concern to her. So, no need to just focus on the neighborhood around TJ -- do it countywide. I am 100% certain that none of the posters on here so outraged about TJ demographics would support such a thing. It's hypocrisy and it's based, in part, on anti-Asian racism.

TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho

The “anti-Asian” claim is a red herring advanced as often as not by White parents whose own kids attend or attended TJ and who are perfectly fine with the decades-long near-total exclusion of Black and Hispanic kids. Of course, there are some Asians posting on this thread who also enjoy their kids’ privileged status within FCPS and are indifferent to TJ’s negative impact on other FCPS students.

Actually, TJ has a positive impact on students in the northern Virginia.

It fosters hyper-competitive behavior and cheating.

It sends a message to non-Asian kids, especially Black and Hispanic kids, that they are inferior.

It contributes to overcrowding and longer commutes for other FCPS high school students.

It encourages FCPS to ignore other schools as long as it can point to one highly ranked school.

It fosters hyper-competitive behavior and cheating.- No it does not. TJ encourages and promotes academics more than sports which SCHOOLS are supposed to do. After all, the main purpose of a high school is to educate kids first before sports or ECs. Also, it is not true that TJ has more cheating than other schools and that is racist to assume that Asians cheat. Asians have the lowest crime rate of any groups in the country.

It sends a message to non-Asian kids, especially Black and Hispanic kids, that they are inferior.- No it does not. In fact, fcps bends over backwards to actively go out of its way to recruit black and hisoanic kids to apply to TJ and the specific programs to do so were posted earlier.

It contributes to overcrowding and longer commutes for other FCPS high school students. - No it does not. There would be more overcrowding and commuting issues for the base schools without TJ.

It encourages FCPS to ignore other schools as long as it can point to one highly ranked school. - No it does not. TJ partnership pays for the extra equipment and other facilities and parents make substantial donations for programs and materials at TJ. In addition, surrounding jurisdictions also pay substantial amounts each year to fcps for their students attending TJ which is a plus for fcps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho"

Heartily disagree. One school is not addressing the vast inequities in FCPS. In fact, it's less of an equity problem because it's based on merit not wealth.

False. TJ has the lowest percentage of FARMS students of any high school in FCPS, including Langley.

TJ admits students whose parents have wealth, education and a particular mindset, which then gets called “merit.”

No. Most Asians who attend TJ are not from wealthy families but from middle class or lower middle class.

You can keep repeating this and you will still be wrong. Lower middle class kids qualify for FARMS.

48 Contiguous States and D.C. Poverty Guidelines (Annual)100% 133% 138% 150%

Persons in Household 100% 133% 138% 150%

4 $26,200 $34,846 $36,156 $39,300

Above is the 133% to 150% of the poverty rate which will qualify a family for FARMS program fora family of 4.

Yes, most Asian families attending TJ are MIDDLE or LOWER MIDDLE class and thus earn more than $26,200 or $39,300 per year for 4 member household. Hardly a wealthy family in northern Virginia. Stop digging yourself a hole that is getting deeper.

I don’t think this means what you think it means. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho"

Heartily disagree. One school is not addressing the vast inequities in FCPS. In fact, it's less of an equity problem because it's based on merit not wealth.

False. TJ has the lowest percentage of FARMS students of any high school in FCPS, including Langley.

TJ admits students whose parents have wealth, education and a particular mindset, which then gets called “merit.”

No. Most Asians who attend TJ are not from wealthy families but from middle class or lower middle class.

You can keep repeating this and you will still be wrong. Lower middle class kids qualify for FARMS.

48 Contiguous States and D.C. Poverty Guidelines (Annual)100% 133% 138% 150%

Persons in Household 100% 133% 138% 150%

4 $26,200 $34,846 $36,156 $39,300

Above is the 133% to 150% of the poverty rate which will qualify a family for FARMS program fora family of 4.

Yes, most Asian families attending TJ are MIDDLE or LOWER MIDDLE class and thus earn more than $26,200 or $39,300 per year for 4 member household. Hardly a wealthy family in northern Virginia. Stop digging yourself a hole that is getting deeper.

Should be 34,846 to 39,300.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho"

Heartily disagree. One school is not addressing the vast inequities in FCPS. In fact, it's less of an equity problem because it's based on merit not wealth.

False. TJ has the lowest percentage of FARMS students of any high school in FCPS, including Langley.

TJ admits students whose parents have wealth, education and a particular mindset, which then gets called “merit.”

No. Most Asians who attend TJ are not from wealthy families but from middle class or lower middle class.

You can keep repeating this and you will still be wrong. Lower middle class kids qualify for FARMS.

48 Contiguous States and D.C. Poverty Guidelines (Annual)100% 133% 138% 150%

Persons in Household 100% 133% 138% 150%

4 $26,200 $34,846 $36,156 $39,300

Above is the 133% to 150% of the poverty rate which will qualify a family for FARMS program fora family of 4.

Yes, most Asian families attending TJ are MIDDLE or LOWER MIDDLE class and thus earn more than $26,200 or $39,300 per year for 4 member household. Hardly a wealthy family in northern Virginia. Stop digging yourself a hole that is getting deeper.

I don’t think this means what you think it means. LOL.

Yes it does. LOL.

[Anonymous]

I think I did a pretty good job of shutting down all those irrational anti-Asian racists. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing less than closing the TJ magnet, reclaiming the school for the local community, and county-wide redistricting is acceptable. Either FCPS cares about equity or it does not. TJ does not mitigate pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education; it magnifies them.

Okay, so you're on board with a countywide redistricting to have equity in base schools to mitigate the pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education, too. Got it.

If they had another neighborhood school, it would require boundary changes and create redistributing opportunities not otherwise available.

TJ, of course, has turned out to be a uniquely self-inflicted wound by FCPS.

You can make all sorts of boundary changes and redistributing opportunities possible if there is a priority of mitigating "pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education," as that PP expresses is of concern to her. So, no need to just focus on the neighborhood around TJ -- do it countywide. I am 100% certain that none of the posters on here so outraged about TJ demographics would support such a thing. It's hypocrisy and it's based, in part, on anti-Asian racism.

TJ is unique as the only magnet high school in FCPS, and raises distinct equity issues, both in terms of their magnitude and in terms of FCPS’s ability to address them Tho

The “anti-Asian” claim is a red herring advanced as often as not by White parents whose own kids attend or attended TJ and who are perfectly fine with the decades-long near-total exclusion of Black and Hispanic kids. Of course, there are some Asians posting on this thread who also enjoy their kids’ privileged status within FCPS and are indifferent to TJ’s negative impact on other FCPS students.

Actually, TJ has a positive impact on students in the northern Virginia.

It fosters hyper-competitive behavior and cheating.

It sends a message to non-Asian kids, especially Black and Hispanic kids, that they are inferior.

It contributes to overcrowding and longer commutes for other FCPS high school students.

It encourages FCPS to ignore other schools as long as it can point to one highly ranked school.

It fosters hyper-competitive behavior and cheating.- No it does not. TJ encourages and promotes academics more than sports which SCHOOLS are supposed to do. After all, the main purpose of a high school is to educate kids first before sports or ECs. Also, it is not true that TJ has more cheating than other schools and that is racist to assume that Asians cheat. Asians have the lowest crime rate of any groups in the country.

It sends a message to non-Asian kids, especially Black and Hispanic kids, that they are inferior.- No it does not. In fact, fcps bends over backwards to actively go out of its way to recruit black and hisoanic kids to apply to TJ and the specific programs to do so were posted earlier.

It contributes to overcrowding and longer commutes for other FCPS high school students. - No it does not. There would be more overcrowding and commuting issues for the base schools without TJ.

It encourages FCPS to ignore other schools as long as it can point to one highly ranked school. - No it does not. TJ partnership pays for the extra equipment and other facilities and parents make substantial donations for programs and materials at TJ. In addition, surrounding jurisdictions also pay substantial amounts each year to fcps for their students attending TJ which is a plus for fcps.

The cheating at TJ is legion is legion and regularly discussed on TJVents, by TJ students at School Board meetings, and among parents in the communities that send kids to TJ.

If you don’t think the paltry admission of non-Asian students to TJ and the mistreatment of the Black and Hispanic students who attend has not sent a message to those kids that they are unwelcome - and that participation in these half-hearted attempts to create a level playing field are a farce - then you are simply delusional.

TJ only educated about 1300 county students, when it could accommodate over 2000 county students, and thus contributes to the overcrowding at other schools.

The contributions of the TJ Partnership Fund and the enrollment fees paid by other jurisdictions only inure to the benefit of TJ. As stated, this enables FCPS to ignore the poor conditions at, and performance of, other schools, because they can always say they must be doing something right if TJ is highly ranked. Never mind that similarly situated jurisdictions that actually care about equity, rather than simply talk about it, eschew such magnet schools in favor of focusing on all their schools. FCPS could be asking businesses to support FCPS generally, but those efforts are handicapped by the targeted appeals of the Partnership Fund to businesses to support a single, high-profile school.

[Anonymous]

people can't have nice things

equity = race to mediocrity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:people can't have nice things

equity = race to mediocrity

That’s such a zero-sum game mindset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't admission be based on merit?

Does merit include kids whose parents start reading to them, exposing them to science, and exposing them to math when they are infants?

Research shows that kids whose parents read to them from when they are babies are far better prepared for school then kids who do not. My kid had access to lots of books. We read to him every day, many times throughout the day. He had access to blocks, magnatiles, legos, tinker toys, and other engineering/construction type toys. We took him to museums and watched science based tv shows with him. We could do that because we could afford those objects, knew about the library, and had the time to take him places and do things with him. A family who makes less money then we do and does not have the same background cannot provide the same opportunities.

Kids from that family are not less intelligent then my son, they have had fewer opportunities to develop their intelligence. Their parents don't have the money or time or knowledge or combination of all three. So those kids are far more likely to be excluded from AAP and TJ simply because their parents lack the resources to provide for them what I could provide for my son.

Does merit include tutoring that starts in Kindergarten or even earlier? That tutoring gives kids an advantage in school and testing, which is more likely to lead to AAP and TJ.

We have not done any extra tutoring for our son, he is 8. We encourage him in his interests, we play math games and encourage him at home. He was accepted into AAP.He had a huge advantage over kids whose parents couldn't/didn't/don't know how to give their kids the same opportunities that we gave our son. How many kids entering AAP have had the benefits my son had and then add tutoring on top of it. Tutoring starts in pre-school for some families. There are test centers to prep kids for the NNAT, CogAT, and TJ exams. Is that merit?

You call it merit, others call it prepping and advantages that not every family knows about or can afford.

I don't call it prepping. I call it good parenting. Do you think setting a schedule and making sure your kids do their homework and go to bed on time prepping? There are plenty of parents who don't do this, buy their kids phones in elementary and let them have unlimited access. You have to decide what's important in your house.

There is a huge difference with making sure your child does their homework, eats well, and goes to bed on time and sending your kid for advanced tutoring in Math so that they can take Algebra in 6th or 7th grade. I would argue the same about travel sports as well. Part of the reason these kids are bored in school is because their parents started sending them to tutoring when they were 4 or 5. I have no doubt that these kids would be doing just fine in math without that tutoring. And I suspect they would do just fine in life if they took Algebra in 8th Grade. You can encourage a kids interest without attempting to promote them ahead of their classmates.

And while I fully believe that their are kids who love math, DS is one of them, I don't really buy that AoPS is in business because there are soooo many kids who really want to do extra math during the week or on the weekends. And I sure as heck know that the number of NNAT, CogAT, and TJ Prep centers are not there because kindergarteners and first graders are asking their parents to study for a test. I suspect that the same is true for the kids in the TJ programs. So much of these programs are driven by parents who seem to think that it is important that their kids do their homework, eat well, go to bed on time, and attending extra tutoring to get ahead in subject materials.

Racist and envious

That PP doesn't seem to understand that in some cultures, education and high stakes exams are viewed as a way to a prosperous future and parents view it as their duty to provide every possible advantage to their kids. Likewise kids are taught that they owe it to their family to succeed so that they can in turn support their parents in old age.

good for them, there is no reason for a public school system to cater to that expectation

Agree. And high school sports teams should also be based on lottery.

The whole notion of arbitrary tryouts that skew towards athletes that have been prepped is unjust and racist.

All kids deserve the chance to play on the teams and with equal playing time. The diversity of the team will only make the team better.

100% agree with this.

[Anonymous]

The whole rat race exists in order to get into the best college/universities in the country. If we just dismantled the entire system, then wouldn't it be better. For example, now that Harvard is going to teach all its classes online, why can't everyone who wants to learn be admitted? Why must these school have applications in the first place? Just post a zoom link and allow anyone in the world who is interested to attend classes. Those who put in the work should get a degree. Enough of the elitist nonsense that exists right now.