Wuhan virus (coronavirus) arrives in the USA

[Anonymous]

The person at Duke Hospital who arrived at RDU from Wuhan has tested negative for the virus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Laurie Garrett has a good list of tips of how to protect yourself from catching this, or any virus.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/25/wuhan-coronavirus-safety-china/

I am a germophbe. I follow these precautions every day and I still get sick.

I was my hands furiously when I get home each day before touching anything
I Clorox wipe my phone multiple times a day, as well as my work keyboard and phone
I clean surfaces, knobs, switches, and bathrooms, daily
I wear long sleeves and use my sleeves to touch door knobs, handles, etc
I don’t eat with my hands outside of my house
I avoid people who seem sick, and try not to go busy places like the mall or concerts during flu season
I literally walked 8 miles last Saturday to avoid crowded subway trains and the germs involved

And I still have a horrible cold right now.

Did you know that studies show that you can catch the flu by just being in the same room as someone with it. They don’t even have to cough or talk. Breathing is enough. So while I’m glad this lady was lucky and didn’t get sick, her luck isn’t science.

Curious — has a dr told you to do this or are you just doing it. I get it, I’m a bit germophobic too so I will be that person taking metro a bit after rush hr so that the closest person is standing a foot away from me rather than 3 inches and I wash my hands first thing when I come in from anywhere, wouldn’t eat a sandwich or taco out without sanitizing. Yet wiping down phones and keyboards multiple times a day or walking 8 miles to avoid a subway seems like a LOT of daily effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Laurie Garrett has a good list of tips of how to protect yourself from catching this, or any virus.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/25/wuhan-coronavirus-safety-china/

I am a germophbe. I follow these precautions every day and I still get sick.

I was my hands furiously when I get home each day before touching anything
I Clorox wipe my phone multiple times a day, as well as my work keyboard and phone
I clean surfaces, knobs, switches, and bathrooms, daily
I wear long sleeves and use my sleeves to touch door knobs, handles, etc
I don’t eat with my hands outside of my house
I avoid people who seem sick, and try not to go busy places like the mall or concerts during flu season
I literally walked 8 miles last Saturday to avoid crowded subway trains and the germs involved

And I still have a horrible cold right now.

Did you know that studies show that you can catch the flu by just being in the same room as someone with it. They don’t even have to cough or talk. Breathing is enough. So while I’m glad this lady was lucky and didn’t get sick, her luck isn’t science.

Curious — has a dr told you to do this or are you just doing it. I get it, I’m a bit germophobic too so I will be that person taking metro a bit after rush hr so that the closest person is standing a foot away from me rather than 3 inches and I wash my hands first thing when I come in from anywhere, wouldn’t eat a sandwich or taco out without sanitizing. Yet wiping down phones and keyboards multiple times a day or walking 8 miles to avoid a subway seems like a LOT of daily effort.

There’s a pretty strong theory in medicine that the overuse of sanitation products (bleach wipes, antibacterial soap, etc) doesn’t ultimately do us any favors, because a healthy immune system is produced only through constant mild challenges (I.e., from exposure to all the regular grossness in our environment).

I wonder if the afore-quoted “horrible cold lady isn’t a good example of how this theory bears out in practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Laurie Garrett has a good list of tips of how to protect yourself from catching this, or any virus.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/25/wuhan-coronavirus-safety-china/

I am a germophbe. I follow these precautions every day and I still get sick.

I was my hands furiously when I get home each day before touching anything
I Clorox wipe my phone multiple times a day, as well as my work keyboard and phone
I clean surfaces, knobs, switches, and bathrooms, daily
I wear long sleeves and use my sleeves to touch door knobs, handles, etc
I don’t eat with my hands outside of my house
I avoid people who seem sick, and try not to go busy places like the mall or concerts during flu season
I literally walked 8 miles last Saturday to avoid crowded subway trains and the germs involved

And I still have a horrible cold right now.

Did you know that studies show that you can catch the flu by just being in the same room as someone with it. They don’t even have to cough or talk. Breathing is enough. So while I’m glad this lady was lucky and didn’t get sick, her luck isn’t science.

Curious — has a dr told you to do this or are you just doing it. I get it, I’m a bit germophobic too so I will be that person taking metro a bit after rush hr so that the closest person is standing a foot away from me rather than 3 inches and I wash my hands first thing when I come in from anywhere, wouldn’t eat a sandwich or taco out without sanitizing. Yet wiping down phones and keyboards multiple times a day or walking 8 miles to avoid a subway seems like a LOT of daily effort.

Plus what about all those times in life where you HAVE to touch stuff and can't go home 5 min later to wash hands? I'm thinking -- self checkout screens; ATMs; pumping gas; shopping carts; and even if you're someone that wipes down shopping carts -- the roll of plastic bags you use for produce was touched by others and the apples you just selected were likely touched by other shoppers or at least by the employee who stacked the apple display? Do you just sanitize after check out or the ATM and proceed on your way? Or do you legit go wash hands immediately after? I'm not mocking -- I'm curious. Like so many these days I have germophobic tendencies too but as the PP said I've heard that over sanitizing has its own problems. Can't say I don't still wash hands more than most people, but I have also done things like switch away from AB soap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The person at Duke Hospital who arrived at RDU from Wuhan has tested negative for the virus.

Good news. If the worry about this grows in the US, I hope that in another week or so they're able to say -- look this person flew in from Wuhan on 1/15 and even though they have it, no one else on their flight, their workplace etc. developed it. Fingers crossed. I think the earliest flight we know about is 1/15 -- which is when the guy in Washington flew in.

[Anonymous]

As a preventive measure for a limited time and under the circumstances only:

Just wondering, would it be doable for CDC to order or encourage all people who have any kind of cough
to wear mask in public places until we know more? Just as a precaution and preventive measure?
mask would probably do much more good on those who wear them to protect in any case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The person at Duke Hospital who arrived at RDU from Wuhan has tested negative for the virus.

Good news. If the worry about this grows in the US, I hope that in another week or so they're able to say -- look this person flew in from Wuhan on 1/15 and even though they have it, no one else on their flight, their workplace etc. developed it. Fingers crossed. I think the earliest flight we know about is 1/15 -- which is when the guy in Washington flew in.

Did they guy have it and now he is cured or was he under observation and tested and never had therefore tested out negative it in the first place? Could you clarify?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Laurie Garrett has a good list of tips of how to protect yourself from catching this, or any virus.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/25/wuhan-coronavirus-safety-china/

She had great suggestions.

You seem overinvested in this article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a preventive measure for a limited time and under the circumstances only:

Just wondering, would it be doable for CDC to order or encourage all people who have any kind of cough to wear mask in public places until we know more? Just as a precaution and preventive measure? mask would probably do much more good on those who wear them to protect in any case.

Wearing masks when one has to go out with a cough has always seemed to me a very thoughtful thing to do an I wonder why more people don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The person at Duke Hospital who arrived at RDU from Wuhan has tested negative for the virus.

Good news. If the worry about this grows in the US, I hope that in another week or so they're able to say -- look this person flew in from Wuhan on 1/15 and even though they have it, no one else on their flight, their workplace etc. developed it. Fingers crossed. I think the earliest flight we know about is 1/15 -- which is when the guy in Washington flew in.

Did they guy have it and now he is cured or was he under observation and tested and never had therefore tested out negative it in the first place? Could you clarify?

The guy in Washington is the first case in the US -- he has it and is in isolation there; not cured/released yet but last report was stable/good condition and may be home next week. He was in Wuhan and flew back home to Washington on 1/15 -- flew to SeaTac and then took some form of transportation home to his suburb (train? uber? not sure how he got home but he didn't have a car parked at the airport). Though when he flew he wasn't showing any symptoms and developed them a few days/week later. So while an "all clear" -- see no one on his flight or SeaTac caught it from him would provide one level of relief, it wouldn't be 100% relief yet bc the counter could be -- someone can only catch it from him if he had symptoms, which he didn't on the flight/in the airport. But I think that just isn't known about this virus yet and I'm sure CDC etc. is frantically studying it -- are people contagious only when symptomatic, a few days before that etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a preventive measure for a limited time and under the circumstances only:

Just wondering, would it be doable for CDC to order or encourage all people who have any kind of cough
to wear mask in public places until we know more? Just as a precaution and preventive measure?
mask would probably do much more good on those who wear them to protect in any case.

Would they really recommend this though? I mean what if you're Joe Schmoe in the DMV from Iowa, hasn't traveled anywhere in 2 mos and last place you went was Iowa and now you have a cough. Is the CDC really going to say you must wear a mask? Or will they say only Joe Wang who is Chinese American and has never step foot in China -- but you never know -- should wear a mask? Unfortunately we aren't an authoritarian nation -- authority comes in handy in times like these; but here all that's going to do is make ACLU start screaming. Hell I know people IRL who are already crying racism (they're white - not Asian) and saying this is only a big deal while no one makes a big deal about the flu bc the flu comes from white people. Uh I think this is a big deal bc it's an unknown with no vaccines or antivirals, and no one is exactly clear whether it's spreading from coughs/sneezes or just be breathing . . . . Agree with you though, it would be nice if the mask culture existed here where people just wore one bc they thought it was the right thing to do to protect others.

The other thing that I hope happens -- which it won't -- is if employers freaking loosened their grip on people taking time off if needed and working from home. Obviously this can't be done "evenly" across the board as the guy at Chipotle can't work from home But Joe Schmoe paper pusher, if you aren't feeling great, pls just use a sick day or telework -- don't come into the office and sneeze everywhere and touch the copier and elevator buttons if you can help it. Though of course that depends on Joe's boss . . . . As quick as American companies in China have shut down operations and/or issued refunds with no fees -- Disney, Delta, Marriott etc. -- I would hope they show the same consideration in America even if it just means more generous telework for the next few weeks.

[Anonymous]

A few points from a microbiologist:

1. The mortality rate from this new coronavirus is significantly lower than for SARS and MERS. It’s at about 3%, which is still higher than the flu. However that 3% could be artificially high, since it only counts diagnosed cases, and not the multiple (hundreds? thousands?) cases that were too mild to seek medical care or a diagnostic test. In other words, DO NOT PANIC. Take travel precautions, that’s all.

2. These viruses always originate from other animal species (in this case, snakes might be suspected), and become known to humans when a mutation in the viral code makes it able to jump the species barrier and infect humans.

3. Jumping the species barrier can occur in any location where humans come into contact with other animals, but are most likely to happen in crowded human-animal situations, such as live animal markets in China and similar countries, which is why many such viruses have originated in China in recent years. MERS originated in the Middle East via camel.

4. Pandemics are the bane of public health organizations. No country in the world is adequately prepared for one. Our current situation is not a pandemic. The nightmare pandemic is this: a virus that is easily transferred from person to person yet has a somewhat high mortality rate. Coronaviruses are a family of viruses that are not as easily transmitted as influenza viruses, however they are more deadly. A worst scenario is a resurgence of Avian flu, or similar: very infectious, and higher mortality than regular flu.

5. In virus theory, the deadlier they are, the less far they go, because they kill hosts and thus alert authorities before spreading too far. One reason the supremely lethal Ebola devastates certain regions of Africa is that the medical response lacks resources and population education is low. But in our interconnected world, a less deadly but more easily-spreading virus could do more damage if authorities don’t react with lightning speed to cordon off viral epicenters and quarantine patients. China has reacted fast and is applying massive resources to this situation, and this will have a significant impact on viral spread. Other countries must keep tabs on all incoming cases and follow-up with their nearest flight neighbors.


And. Do not panic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
A few points from a microbiologist:

1. The mortality rate from this new coronavirus is significantly lower than for SARS and MERS. It’s at about 3%, which is still higher than the flu. However that 3% could be artificially high, since it only counts diagnosed cases, and not the multiple (hundreds? thousands?) cases that were too mild to seek medical care or a diagnostic test. In other words, DO NOT PANIC. Take travel precautions, that’s all.

2. These viruses always originate from other animal species (in this case, snakes might be suspected), and become known to humans when a mutation in the viral code makes it able to jump the species barrier and infect humans.

3. Jumping the species barrier can occur in any location where humans come into contact with other animals, but are most likely to happen in crowded human-animal situations, such as live animal markets in China and similar countries, which is why many such viruses have originated in China in recent years. MERS originated in the Middle East via camel.

4. Pandemics are the bane of public health organizations. No country in the world is adequately prepared for one. Our current situation is not a pandemic. The nightmare pandemic is this: a virus that is easily transferred from person to person yet has a somewhat high mortality rate. Coronaviruses are a family of viruses that are not as easily transmitted as influenza viruses, however they are more deadly. A worst scenario is a resurgence of Avian flu, or similar: very infectious, and higher mortality than regular flu.

5. In virus theory, the deadlier they are, the less far they go, because they kill hosts and thus alert authorities before spreading too far. One reason the supremely lethal Ebola devastates certain regions of Africa is that the medical response lacks resources and population education is low. But in our interconnected world, a less deadly but more easily-spreading virus could do more damage if authorities don’t react with lightning speed to cordon off viral epicenters and quarantine patients. China has reacted fast and is applying massive resources to this situation, and this will have a significant impact on viral spread. Other countries must keep tabs on all incoming cases and follow-up with their nearest flight neighbors.


And. Do not panic.

Very helpful. Thoughts on getting on long flights (not to China) but to LA or Europe -- where you don't know who is on the flight/where from/how they're feeling and you're breathing airplane recycled air for 6-8 hrs? Go? Don't go? Is there any way to predict whether there will be more/less spread of this in a few weeks/month -- i.e. would it start to burn itself out or do these things take months and months? Bc I'm seeing an awful lot of travelers at BWI going on short domestic flights like ATL who are in masks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
A few points from a microbiologist:

1. The mortality rate from this new coronavirus is significantly lower than for SARS and MERS. It’s at about 3%, which is still higher than the flu. However that 3% could be artificially high, since it only counts diagnosed cases, and not the multiple (hundreds? thousands?) cases that were too mild to seek medical care or a diagnostic test. In other words, DO NOT PANIC. Take travel precautions, that’s all.

2. These viruses always originate from other animal species (in this case, snakes might be suspected), and become known to humans when a mutation in the viral code makes it able to jump the species barrier and infect humans.

3. Jumping the species barrier can occur in any location where humans come into contact with other animals, but are most likely to happen in crowded human-animal situations, such as live animal markets in China and similar countries, which is why many such viruses have originated in China in recent years. MERS originated in the Middle East via camel.

4. Pandemics are the bane of public health organizations. No country in the world is adequately prepared for one. Our current situation is not a pandemic. The nightmare pandemic is this: a virus that is easily transferred from person to person yet has a somewhat high mortality rate. Coronaviruses are a family of viruses that are not as easily transmitted as influenza viruses, however they are more deadly. A worst scenario is a resurgence of Avian flu, or similar: very infectious, and higher mortality than regular flu.

5. In virus theory, the deadlier they are, the less far they go, because they kill hosts and thus alert authorities before spreading too far. One reason the supremely lethal Ebola devastates certain regions of Africa is that the medical response lacks resources and population education is low. But in our interconnected world, a less deadly but more easily-spreading virus could do more damage if authorities don’t react with lightning speed to cordon off viral epicenters and quarantine patients. China has reacted fast and is applying massive resources to this situation, and this will have a significant impact on viral spread. Other countries must keep tabs on all incoming cases and follow-up with their nearest flight neighbors.


And. Do not panic.

Thank you! Can I ask, should we be weary of domestic travel to Seattle or ORD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A few points from a microbiologist:

1. The mortality rate from this new coronavirus is significantly lower than for SARS and MERS. It’s at about 3%, which is still higher than the flu. However that 3% could be artificially high, since it only counts diagnosed cases, and not the multiple (hundreds? thousands?) cases that were too mild to seek medical care or a diagnostic test. In other words, DO NOT PANIC. Take travel precautions, that’s all.

2. These viruses always originate from other animal species (in this case, snakes might be suspected), and become known to humans when a mutation in the viral code makes it able to jump the species barrier and infect humans.

3. Jumping the species barrier can occur in any location where humans come into contact with other animals, but are most likely to happen in crowded human-animal situations, such as live animal markets in China and similar countries, which is why many such viruses have originated in China in recent years. MERS originated in the Middle East via camel.

4. Pandemics are the bane of public health organizations. No country in the world is adequately prepared for one. Our current situation is not a pandemic. The nightmare pandemic is this: a virus that is easily transferred from person to person yet has a somewhat high mortality rate. Coronaviruses are a family of viruses that are not as easily transmitted as influenza viruses, however they are more deadly. A worst scenario is a resurgence of Avian flu, or similar: very infectious, and higher mortality than regular flu.

5. In virus theory, the deadlier they are, the less far they go, because they kill hosts and thus alert authorities before spreading too far. One reason the supremely lethal Ebola devastates certain regions of Africa is that the medical response lacks resources and population education is low. But in our interconnected world, a less deadly but more easily-spreading virus could do more damage if authorities don’t react with lightning speed to cordon off viral epicenters and quarantine patients. China has reacted fast and is applying massive resources to this situation, and this will have a significant impact on viral spread. Other countries must keep tabs on all incoming cases and follow-up with their nearest flight neighbors.


And. Do not panic.

Very helpful. Thoughts on getting on long flights (not to China) but to LA or Europe -- where you don't know who is on the flight/where from/how they're feeling and you're breathing airplane recycled air for 6-8 hrs? Go? Don't go? Is there any way to predict whether there will be more/less spread of this in a few weeks/month -- i.e. would it start to burn itself out or do these things take months and months? Bc I'm seeing an awful lot of travelers at BWI going on short domestic flights like ATL who are in masks.

PP you replied to.

There is no way to accurately predict right now what the spread is going to look like, although I'm sure there are computer programs out there doing their best. One factor is that no country has ever reacted like China has done this time around, so we just don't know.

Yes, please take precautions if you are traveling internationally, even if it's not to China:
1. Wear a mask. A simple flexible one, the others are way too uncomfortable.
2. Wash hands regularly and particularly before you eat or need to touch your face.
3. Don't touch your face, or your children's faces, unless you've just washed your hands. The kid who sucks his thumb all the time should probably not travel internationally at this time...