Great article: "Democrats are in a Bubble on Immigration"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do you even have a college degree? if you have, you better get a refund. Gang wars have been happening throughout human history. White supremacy gangs, Italian mafia, Russian gangs, black gangs, Hispanic hangs etc etc.

America is a country of 330 milllion, what happens in small school is not representative of the country. That’s why data makes sense, not anecdotes. Data suggests what you are describing is an exception and not the rule. You have no credibility because you are trying hard to extrapolate and exception case into a everyday rule case. It’s not gonna work, fortunately there are enough educated Americans.

Actually it did already work when Trump was elected, you know. You are still blind to the anger people feel when someone "educated" tells them their individual situation is irrelevant, the pain they feel is irrelevant, their personal struggles are irrelevant because "big global trends" show something different.

+1 million

I don't care what your 'data' says. When my standard of living is being lowered due to illegal immigration, it becomes an issue for me. And, many like me. Educated and not.

+2,000,000

Yes yes yes.

How is your standard of living being lowered "due to illegal immigration." I would actual facts and examples, please. Not talking points.

Have you been conveniently skipping posts that have already laid out these facts and examples? Too painful for you to hear about the overcrowded schools full of kids who don't speak English, whose needs come before kids of American citizens? How about the neighborhoods with multiple families of illegal immigrants crowding into houses and lowering the value of said neighborhoods? Shall I continue? If you can't keep up with the thread, perhaps you should simply do some googling of your own.

This

I’m the PP who posted about how illegal immigration affects my kids and my community in a daily basis. Why is that unimportant to the a Democrats? It’s important enough to me that i’ll be basing my vote on it for the next election. And call me xenophobic and uneducated all you want. IRL, I’m not White and I have an advanced degree. Not that it should matter anyway. Educated or not, people have a right to their opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what happens others who want to come here, but just can't simply cross the border? is it fair to them?

The whole rhetoric behind democrats is that they want minority VOTES!!! They have no real solutions to anything, so in order to stay in power they need these votes. It is simple as that, however, as a minority i don't buy into their bs.

I don't care so much about the votes. I just tend to like the foreigners I meet better than the rural white people I meet. The latter tend to be so shrill. And their food is usually pretty terrible.

Perhaps you'd be happier in a country with fewer "rural white people"? What's stopping you from leaving?
-DP

Get bent. This is my country and those diabetic, Rascal-riding Trump supporters are ruining it.

Guess what? This is their country too and the people ruining it are you and your fellow imbeciles.

Nah. They're flying Confederate flags. Traitors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because I don't want desperate refugees and their children turned away at the border or detained and treated cruelly, doesn't mean I want "open borders".

Cut the crap, GOP. If you're even capable of cutting the crap - given that's all you seem to spew these days.

Maybe YOU don't want open borders, but many in the Democratic Party are heading that way.........
Last weeks' debate showed that. And, it demonstrated that most of the candidates are totally out of step with the desires of the American people.

"Many people are saying"

It's a b.s. strawman argument. No one of consequence is arguing for open borders. They just aren't into the performative cruelty that Trump supporters seem to enjoy when deployed against brown people.

[Anonymous]

So many questions about diversity.
When Democrats don’t encourage any degree of assimilation. And instead love it when thousands of the same ethnicity group together in one or two towns (so poverty doesn’t move into Their town)

How diverse is my old elementary school (which used to have blacks, whites, Latin, Iranians, Pakistani, East Asian, so diverse that my HS was chosen for a televised panel due to how varied and diverse it was)......... and now it has 95% Hispanic, and the other races move out well before middle school. They can handle ES, but would pay $$$$ and move before sending their kids to the middle school. With good reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That's why many low-income Americans will choose Trump. They feel left out with the current favoritism of illegals by the Democrat party.

Mostly just the white ones. Non-white low income Americans by and large favor the Democrats. So, Trump support is mostly a function of being white; not being poor.

I’m not white and also not poor and am closer to Trump than to the current crop of Dems on immigration. I loathe Trump and don’t think I can bring myself to vote for him, but I might sit out the election (as a PA voter) if the Democratic candidate is too far left on immigration. And there are lots more like me.

Then you're completely gullible and have fallen for the Bannon/Miller long play to inflate immigration into a voting issue. Please, think more critically. What the Democrats are reacting to is the Trump administration's purposefully vicious acts -- arbitrarily pulling visas on the basis of religion; separating children; putting children in detention camps instead of better shelters. They did this on purpose, to get a reaction out of Democrats, so they in turn could create the specter of the "emergency at the border" and claim that the Democrats' reaction TO THEIR VICIOUSNESS constitutes being "too far left on immigration."

So please, actually look at the record of the Democratic party on immigration, as well as the candidates. Literally nobody is calling for open borders.

DP. Wow, you've really fallen hard for the propaganda of the left, haven't you? You *actually* believe the bolded. Aren't you the party who thinks you're so much better educated than everyone else? Hint: you're not - and it shows.

You need to wake up and stop with the right wing propaganda. The bolder by the pp is the truth.

What you view as “truth” is absolutely left wing propaganda. Only someone completely brainwashed would believe this administration somehow “engineered” the very real border crisis in order to “get a reaction” from Democrats. Unbelievable that you actually believe this insanity.

The difference is the reaction -- there was a surge in crossings under the Obama administration, but he reacted humanely, not by demonizing them.

And although crossings were at a comparative high in 2019, they are still at a historical low overall: https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-illegal-border-crossing-20190307-story.html

Everyone engages in propaganda, but there's one side of this debate that is engaging in xenophobia-stoking propaganda, against a background of increasingly violent white nationalism world-wide. And it's not the Democrats.

Sorry, I disagree entirely with your assertion that those of us who want strict border control are somehow "xenophobic." That's just a convenient word for you to trot out when you have no other rebuttal. Countries have every right to decide who can and cannot enter - the US is no different. LEGAL, highly-skilled immigrants from all over the world make this country a great place by contributing to our economy. Period.

This is where you reveal your bias. Because let's face it, highly skilled workers in the conventional sense, are most often from countries with A) higher socio-economic foundations (e.g., not poor countries) and B) very often white. As Trump himself said, he wants people from Norway not "sh%thole countries". So spare me the it's all about legality BS. It's not. You know it.

DP. Sorry to burst your bubble but highly skilled workers these days predominantly come from India and China and to some extent the Middle East, and without them the average performance of the US in math and science would be even more dismal than it currently is. Have you looked a the enrollment in AP Math and Science classes recently? My DD was one of two white girls in a 30+ class of mostly Asian kids (and good for them).
Go into a middle school math class in any "good" neighborhood, and the white, Hispanic and Black kids that are not in Honors math are trying to learn algebra even though they often can't even handle simple arithmetic without a calculator. But the Asian kids can, with rare exceptions. And the honors classes are full of Asians.

signed--
Legal immigrant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx, Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts. My family didn't have it easy coming over. Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling. I see it in the school system. We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts. You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same. I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me. When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right? b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty. My father barely had a home; it was crumbling. Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S. (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want! You don't speak for all of us. And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020.

How were your parents able to immigrate?

Dad and my grandfather worked. They saved money, hopped on a boat & came through Ellis Island. They rented an apartment in PG County and worked as stonemasons. When they saved up enough money, they brought the others over - grandmother, aunts & uncle. My father & uncle served in WWII.

Eventually, their business grew and they parted ways, each opening up his own business.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

They helped each other and bc they were honest & talented, their businesses grew.

Immigration doesn’t work that way anymore.

really?

It worked that way for my nanny (El Salvador). It worked that way for my friend's husband (Italy). . . for my neighbor (Russia) . . . for my niece's boyfriend (Ireland)

No one says it's an easy process, and based on what little I know, it could be simplified. But again, if there's a will, there's a way.

Really, so all they had to do was find the resources to get themselves to the U.S. border and then they were allowed in? Because that’s exactly what’s happening at our southern border, people are finding the resources to make it to the border, except they’re not being allowed in.

What you described is essentially how our immigration system used to work, and it is how an awful lot of our ancestors got here - if you could afford the ticket, you were in. But the system has fundamentally changed now, and the majority of people who immigrated 100 years ago would not be allowed into the country today.

+1. Of course the cons are completely ignoring this because it doesn’t fit their rhetoric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Twitter thread showing 2014 photos of detention center conditions.

https://twitter.com/brandondarby/status/1146045973535309825?s=20

But... but you can’t blame Trump for it. So, of course, dcum won’t be interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because I don't want desperate refugees and their children turned away at the border or detained and treated cruelly, doesn't mean I want "open borders".

Cut the crap, GOP. If you're even capable of cutting the crap - given that's all you seem to spew these days.

Maybe YOU don't want open borders, but many in the Democratic Party are heading that way.........
Last weeks' debate showed that. And, it demonstrated that most of the candidates are totally out of step with the desires of the American people.

"Many people are saying"

It's a b.s. strawman argument. No one of consequence is arguing for open borders. They just aren't into the performative cruelty that Trump supporters seem to enjoy when deployed against brown people.

You’re pretty dumb. All of your candidates want open borders.
That’s why you’ll be losing to trump.
Again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx, Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts. My family didn't have it easy coming over. Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling. I see it in the school system. We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts. You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same. I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me. When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right? b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty. My father barely had a home; it was crumbling. Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S. (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want! You don't speak for all of us. And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020.

How were your parents able to immigrate?

Dad and my grandfather worked. They saved money, hopped on a boat & came through Ellis Island. They rented an apartment in PG County and worked as stonemasons. When they saved up enough money, they brought the others over - grandmother, aunts & uncle. My father & uncle served in WWII.

Eventually, their business grew and they parted ways, each opening up his own business.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

They helped each other and bc they were honest & talented, their businesses grew.

Immigration doesn’t work that way anymore.

really?

It worked that way for my nanny (El Salvador). It worked that way for my friend's husband (Italy). . . for my neighbor (Russia) . . . for my niece's boyfriend (Ireland)

No one says it's an easy process, and based on what little I know, it could be simplified. But again, if there's a will, there's a way.

Really, so all they had to do was find the resources to get themselves to the U.S. border and then they were allowed in? Because that’s exactly what’s happening at our southern border, people are finding the resources to make it to the border, except they’re not being allowed in.

What you described is essentially how our immigration system used to work, and it is how an awful lot of our ancestors got here - if you could afford the ticket, you were in. But the system has fundamentally changed now, and the majority of people who immigrated 100 years ago would not be allowed into the country today.

+1. Of course the cons are completely ignoring this because it doesn’t fit their rhetoric.

And if frogs had wings their a$$es wouldn’t bounce on the ground when they hopped.
My ancestors bought a ticket and emigrated legally.
Current illegals, by definition, aren’t.
Times change.
Liberal stupidity does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do you even have a college degree? if you have, you better get a refund. Gang wars have been happening throughout human history. White supremacy gangs, Italian mafia, Russian gangs, black gangs, Hispanic hangs etc etc.

America is a country of 330 milllion, what happens in small school is not representative of the country. That’s why data makes sense, not anecdotes. Data suggests what you are describing is an exception and not the rule. You have no credibility because you are trying hard to extrapolate and exception case into a everyday rule case. It’s not gonna work, fortunately there are enough educated Americans.

Actually it did already work when Trump was elected, you know. You are still blind to the anger people feel when someone "educated" tells them their individual situation is irrelevant, the pain they feel is irrelevant, their personal struggles are irrelevant because "big global trends" show something different.

+1 million

I don't care what your 'data' says. When my standard of living is being lowered due to illegal immigration, it becomes an issue for me. And, many like me. Educated and not.

+2,000,000

Yes, the blame

Yes yes yes.

How is your standard of living being lowered "due to illegal immigration." I would actual facts and examples, please. Not talking points.

Have you been conveniently skipping posts that have already laid out these facts and examples? Too painful for you to hear about the overcrowded schools full of kids who don't speak English, whose needs come before kids of American citizens? How about the neighborhoods with multiple families of illegal immigrants crowding into houses and lowering the value of said neighborhoods? Shall I continue? If you can't keep up with the thread, perhaps you should simply do some googling of your own.

This

I’m the PP who posted about how illegal immigration affects my kids and my community in a daily basis. Why is that unimportant to the a Democrats? It’s important enough to me that i’ll be basing my vote on it for the next election. And call me xenophobic and uneducated all you want. IRL, I’m not White and I have an advanced degree. Not that it should matter anyway. Educated or not, people have a right to their opinions.

It's not just an opinion. I chose to sell my house due to high influx of undocumented immigrant children in my local school AND the lack of enforcement of various local laws in my neighborhood. The local school did not receive adequate funding, test scores were really bad, and my neighbors were quickly selling their houses. I stayed for 10 years after the first people started moving out. I meet with the local school board, offered to take two weeks off and volunteer in the local school 2 years before my child reached kindergarten, and finally sat on my front steps and cried when I realized that I needed to sell the house. I wanted a good public education for my kid, not a religious private education (didn't get enough financial aid for the other privates). When I chose to buy again, my new house is less than 1/4 mile from the old one. Same community, but better schools. BTW, you might even mistake my child for one of the children living in a detention center.

We need to have an honest discussion about our immigration system and concrete answers.

[Anonymous]

Dem policy is this

Come over and get free benefits

and if you don't break any major laws you can stay

if that isn't open borders I don't know what is

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dem policy is this

Come over and get free benefits

and if you don't break any major laws you can stay

if that isn't open borders I don't know what is

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just an opinion. I chose to sell my house due to high influx of undocumented immigrant children in my local school AND the lack of enforcement of various local laws in my neighborhood. The local school did not receive adequate funding, test scores were really bad, and my neighbors were quickly selling their houses. I stayed for 10 years after the first people started moving out. I meet with the local school board, offered to take two weeks off and volunteer in the local school 2 years before my child reached kindergarten, and finally sat on my front steps and cried when I realized that I needed to sell the house. I wanted a good public education for my kid, not a religious private education (didn't get enough financial aid for the other privates). When I chose to buy again, my new house is less than 1/4 mile from the old one. Same community, but better schools. BTW, you might even mistake my child for one of the children living in a detention center.

We need to have an honest discussion about our immigration system and concrete answers.

My grandparents sold their house and moved when black people started moving into the neighborhood. My grandparents were huge racists. I mean they justified it to themselves with similar rationales about schools and crime and how the black people were deficient in one way or another. But, it really just boiled down to them not wanting to live with and near black people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx, Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts. My family didn't have it easy coming over. Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling. I see it in the school system. We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts. You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same. I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me. When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right? b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty. My father barely had a home; it was crumbling. Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S. (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want! You don't speak for all of us. And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020.

How were your parents able to immigrate?

Dad and my grandfather worked. They saved money, hopped on a boat & came through Ellis Island. They rented an apartment in PG County and worked as stonemasons. When they saved up enough money, they brought the others over - grandmother, aunts & uncle. My father & uncle served in WWII.

Eventually, their business grew and they parted ways, each opening up his own business.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

They helped each other and bc they were honest & talented, their businesses grew.

Immigration doesn’t work that way anymore.

really?

It worked that way for my nanny (El Salvador). It worked that way for my friend's husband (Italy). . . for my neighbor (Russia) . . . for my niece's boyfriend (Ireland)

No one says it's an easy process, and based on what little I know, it could be simplified. But again, if there's a will, there's a way.

Really, so all they had to do was find the resources to get themselves to the U.S. border and then they were allowed in? Because that’s exactly what’s happening at our southern border, people are finding the resources to make it to the border, except they’re not being allowed in.

What you described is essentially how our immigration system used to work, and it is how an awful lot of our ancestors got here - if you could afford the ticket, you were in. But the system has fundamentally changed now, and the majority of people who immigrated 100 years ago would not be allowed into the country today.

+1. Of course the cons are completely ignoring this because it doesn’t fit their rhetoric.

rhetoric?

lol

This is MY story. I'm uplifted by their success and I share in their successes.

So you can try to slap me down, but hon, rhetoric is argument. Argument is based on perspective. We'll agree to disagree b/c I'm for LEGAL immigration - and a lot of patience. And guess what? If ANY of you morons tried to pull this stunt in any other country, you'd be sent away.

ridiculous excuses

no thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dem policy is this

Come over and get free benefits

and if you don't break any major laws you can stay

if that isn't open borders I don't know what is

Basically this.
Also - curious to know where PP at 15:09 lives that they do not understand the reality of what the pp who had to move posted. And the fact that that poster is also Latinx it sounded like.