How long will the shutdown last?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People climb over walls.
Ever hear of ladders?

Sure. A wall/fence/barrier is a deterrent. I think the border patrol would see someone heading our way with a ten foot+ ladder in tow.

You people are ridiculous. And, you are ridiculous because you know damned well that walls/fences/physical barriers work. That is why the Dems have voted for such structures in the past. The only thing that has changed is that Trump is now president.

Of course they know that walls work. That is exactly why they don't want it.

a few weeks ago one of the migrants broke their back trying to jump the wall where there was an 18 foot secton. The wall works. I doubt many will be trying it after her in that section.

Explain why Trump turned down $25 billion for the wall when it was offered, if this was so important to him. We all know he's just grandstanding.

Trump had 25 billion for a wall and turned it down.

Now he is saying that federal workers, many of whom are working without pay, are "striking."

When is he going to be removed for being mentally incompetent?
I'm starting to wonder if he is doing this on purpose to get out of going to prison for crimes already committed before becoming president.

He had the promise of money. Worked well for Reagan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Nancy Pelosi's funding tactic for next week: Passing agency-specific funding bills on the floor, in an attempt to pick off more Republican support.

First up: A funding bill that would reopen the IRS, which would make sure tax returns are on time for millions.

The bill also includes a 1.9 percent pay raise for fed workers. And it would BLOCK the pay raise slated for the VP/executive office staff, per Dem aide.”
- Sarah Ferris, Hill reporter for Politico

Can you link the site please?

It’s a tweet from the quoted reporter. https://twitter.com/sarahnferris/status/1081677243552858112?s=21

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Nancy Pelosi's funding tactic for next week: Passing agency-specific funding bills on the floor, in an attempt to pick off more Republican support.

First up: A funding bill that would reopen the IRS, which would make sure tax returns are on time for millions.

The bill also includes a 1.9 percent pay raise for fed workers. And it would BLOCK the pay raise slated for the VP/executive office staff, per Dem aide.”
- Sarah Ferris, Hill reporter for Politico

Then the government will remain shut down. Those will be dead on arrival in Senate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Nancy Pelosi's funding tactic for next week: Passing agency-specific funding bills on the floor, in an attempt to pick off more Republican support.

First up: A funding bill that would reopen the IRS, which would make sure tax returns are on time for millions.

The bill also includes a 1.9 percent pay raise for fed workers. And it would BLOCK the pay raise slated for the VP/executive office staff, per Dem aide.”
- Sarah Ferris, Hill reporter for Politico

Then the government will remain shut down. Those will be dead on arrival in Senate.

Why? The Senate passed tbe 1.9 percent pay raise first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Nancy Pelosi's funding tactic for next week: Passing agency-specific funding bills on the floor, in an attempt to pick off more Republican support.

First up: A funding bill that would reopen the IRS, which would make sure tax returns are on time for millions.

The bill also includes a 1.9 percent pay raise for fed workers. And it would BLOCK the pay raise slated for the VP/executive office staff, per Dem aide.”
- Sarah Ferris, Hill reporter for Politico

Then the government will remain shut down. Those will be dead on arrival in Senate.

Then whose fault is it when people don't get refunds and can't fly? How will the ecomnomy erode when people cannot fly, don't have a refund to spend, and 800,000 additional people are out of work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The general alt-right response to why the Canadian healthcare system won't work for the US is that it can't be "scaled up" -- that when take something which can be funded, delivered, monitored and enforced on a small scale, it doesn't necessarily translate into something which can be done on a large scale.

Sometimes small issues at the small scale become insurmountable on a larger scale. For example, the issue of eminent domain is not usually an issue for building a fence or wall on your own property -- but it sure as hell is going to rear up if you are fencing off all of the southern border of the US, and exponentially so.

Why does that make it insurmountable? Take the eminent domain cases to court along with the nature reserves and everyone else who has an issue with it. It may take years but so what? Let it play out.

It's not insurmountable, it's just one (*of many*) costs that aren't being addressed. Make a realistic assessment of the scale-up costs, acknowledge how they come into play -- and not in, say, a private home's fence -- and then run it up the GAO flagpole.

But you won't. You just point to a private home fence and act like that's some kind of reasonable analogy.

well again i'm not the one who point to a private home fence as an analogy. And again, the parallel is that fences keep people out... which is exactly what a wall would do. Sure we could discussed the total costs but that isnt was is even being requested here so not sure what your point is.

My original post was in the context of the ongoing discussion, in which the case was being made that just like a fence works for a house, therefore it should work for the southern border.

One of my points is that scaling up sometimes introduces new problems, some of which increase exponentially, not linearly, as the scale increases.

You know what else works well for single home security? Patrolling every inch of the perimeter every 15 minutes by foot. Practically, that's not going to work for the southern border. (And yes, I know you are not suggesting a fence -- you clarified that. But you walked in on an ongoing conversation, and I am continuing it while clarifying my point as per your request.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The general alt-right response to why the Canadian healthcare system won't work for the US is that it can't be "scaled up" -- that when take something which can be funded, delivered, monitored and enforced on a small scale, it doesn't necessarily translate into something which can be done on a large scale.

Sometimes small issues at the small scale become insurmountable on a larger scale. For example, the issue of eminent domain is not usually an issue for building a fence or wall on your own property -- but it sure as hell is going to rear up if you are fencing off all of the southern border of the US, and exponentially so.

Why does that make it insurmountable? Take the eminent domain cases to court along with the nature reserves and everyone else who has an issue with it. It may take years but so what? Let it play out.

It's not insurmountable, it's just one (*of many*) costs that aren't being addressed. Make a realistic assessment of the scale-up costs, acknowledge how they come into play -- and not in, say, a private home's fence -- and then run it up the GAO flagpole.

But you won't. You just point to a private home fence and act like that's some kind of reasonable analogy.

well again i'm not the one who point to a private home fence as an analogy. And again, the parallel is that fences keep people out... which is exactly what a wall would do. Sure we could discussed the total costs but that isnt was is even being requested here so not sure what your point is.

Clearly a fence couldn't keep illegals from working at Trump's golf resort so not sure what your point is.

If the first wall on the border had been there, they would not have made it to Trump's golf resort fences.

The border wall isnt the only solution. Mandatory e-verify will solve the issue of getting past golf resort fences if they get past the first wall..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The general alt-right response to why the Canadian healthcare system won't work for the US is that it can't be "scaled up" -- that when take something which can be funded, delivered, monitored and enforced on a small scale, it doesn't necessarily translate into something which can be done on a large scale.

Sometimes small issues at the small scale become insurmountable on a larger scale. For example, the issue of eminent domain is not usually an issue for building a fence or wall on your own property -- but it sure as hell is going to rear up if you are fencing off all of the southern border of the US, and exponentially so.

Why does that make it insurmountable? Take the eminent domain cases to court along with the nature reserves and everyone else who has an issue with it. It may take years but so what? Let it play out.

It's not insurmountable, it's just one (*of many*) costs that aren't being addressed. Make a realistic assessment of the scale-up costs, acknowledge how they come into play -- and not in, say, a private home's fence -- and then run it up the GAO flagpole.

But you won't. You just point to a private home fence and act like that's some kind of reasonable analogy.

well again i'm not the one who point to a private home fence as an analogy. And again, the parallel is that fences keep people out... which is exactly what a wall would do. Sure we could discussed the total costs but that isnt was is even being requested here so not sure what your point is.

Clearly a fence couldn't keep illegals from working at Trump's golf resort so not sure what your point is.

If the first wall on the border had been there, they would not have made it to Trump's golf resort fences.

The border wall isnt the only solution. Mandatory e-verify will solve the issue of getting past golf resort fences if they get past the first wall..

Well no, because the Trump Organization knowingly hid illegal immigrants, so making it mandatory just provides another crime to charge them with. That said you really have no idea how these people made their way to the US. They could have easily flown here to visit family.

[Anonymous]

Anyone note the irony that the shutdown over the wall has taken e-verify offline?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s right - he needs a way out of this. I vote for Executive Order - why not? Just needs a photo op for the base.

Exactly, I know some members of Trumps base and they won't know the difference, as long as he declares a "win" of some kind.

He could even take the same compromise out that Congress came up with before Christmas, declare it "his" idea, and call it a win, and his base won't know the difference.

How elitist of you. My bet is that you don't actually know any of "Trump's base" but are basing your comments on the stereotypes you carry.

And, for those of you who say, "Walls don't work".....

Don't you find it just a bit hypocritical that before Obama moved into his Kalorama home, the first thing he had done was to create fencing around his home?
Not to mention all the other politicians that have walls or fences or barriers around their properties...........

LOL. Turn off foxnews. It makes you sound like an IDIOT.

https://www.tmz.com/2017/01/06/president-obama-dc-house-brick-wall/

According to PopSugar, a brick wall is being built in front of the house—a development that seems a bit ironic given Donald Trump's promise to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border. Additionally, the garage is being converted into an office, potentially the spot where Michelle or Barack Obama will pen their next memoir.

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/obama-home-renovations

As Barack Obama waxes eloquent about the supposed negative impact of walls on humanity, crews have completed the wall surrounding his Washington, DC home.

Grabien reports:

Sitting alongside German Chancellor Angela Merkel, former President Obama lectured the current administration about its immigration policy Thursday.

While not mentioning President Trump by name, Obama made clear to whom he was leveling his criticism.

“In this new world that we live in we can’t isolate ourselves,” Obama said. “We can’t hide behind a wall.”

But that’s exactly what Obama is doing in his Washington, DC and Chicago homes.

Crews have completed the brick and metal wall surrounding his home in the tony Kalorama neighborhood in DC.

http://www.theamericanmirror.com/update-wall-around-obamas-dc-home-complete/

So you just happened to be reading a year-old TMZ article today?

Like I said, turn off FoxNews.

No, actually I recall discussion on this board when it was made public that the Obamas were going to rent the home that they were having a fence installed. That decision was actually lauded here. Go figure.
A simple google search pulled up some citations.

So you are saying that you just randomly happened to remember some old discussion on DCUM about the Obama's home. And then, coincidentally, just a few days ago it was big news in FoxNewslandia.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/if-the-obamas-have-a-wall-around-their-dc-mansion-us-border-should-too-trump

TOTALLY believable.

So that’s what happened, right? Just a funny coincidence?

[Anonymous]

National park sites are closed with one exception. The tower at the Trump Hotel is open. Not a coincidence at all, I’m sure.

https://www.apnews.com/a92b044703354064a34217492c5a0923

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The general alt-right response to why the Canadian healthcare system won't work for the US is that it can't be "scaled up" -- that when take something which can be funded, delivered, monitored and enforced on a small scale, it doesn't necessarily translate into something which can be done on a large scale.

Sometimes small issues at the small scale become insurmountable on a larger scale. For example, the issue of eminent domain is not usually an issue for building a fence or wall on your own property -- but it sure as hell is going to rear up if you are fencing off all of the southern border of the US, and exponentially so.

Why does that make it insurmountable? Take the eminent domain cases to court along with the nature reserves and everyone else who has an issue with it. It may take years but so what? Let it play out.

It's not insurmountable, it's just one (*of many*) costs that aren't being addressed. Make a realistic assessment of the scale-up costs, acknowledge how they come into play -- and not in, say, a private home's fence -- and then run it up the GAO flagpole.

But you won't. You just point to a private home fence and act like that's some kind of reasonable analogy.

well again i'm not the one who point to a private home fence as an analogy. And again, the parallel is that fences keep people out... which is exactly what a wall would do. Sure we could discussed the total costs but that isnt was is even being requested here so not sure what your point is.

Clearly a fence couldn't keep illegals from working at Trump's golf resort so not sure what your point is.

If the first wall on the border had been there, they would not have made it to Trump's golf resort fences.

The border wall isnt the only solution. Mandatory e-verify will solve the issue of getting past golf resort fences if they get past the first wall..

That gives the lie to the blanket statement that walls work, then. Next!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:National park sites are closed with one exception. The tower at the Trump Hotel is open. Not a coincidence at all, I’m sure.

https://www.apnews.com/a92b044703354064a34217492c5a0923

No, nothing to see.hwre.
Trump gets to make sure his properties do well during the shutdown over the wall. And hire illegals. Win win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone note the irony that the shutdown over the wall has taken e-verify offline?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Nancy Pelosi's funding tactic for next week: Passing agency-specific funding bills on the floor, in an attempt to pick off more Republican support.

First up: A funding bill that would reopen the IRS, which would make sure tax returns are on time for millions.

The bill also includes a 1.9 percent pay raise for fed workers. And it would BLOCK the pay raise slated for the VP/executive office staff, per Dem aide.”
- Sarah Ferris, Hill reporter for Politico

Not sure how I feel about this. Tax refunds for his base is the only thing giving me hope that this will end soon. If we open up agencies one at a time, my agency will be dead last! Salaries should come before tax refunds.