Husbands with SAHMs that prefer they work

[Anonymous]

I could do a better job homeschooling my kids all the way through high school, in every subject, than the schooling they will get at the schools we will send them to. We can't afford the world's most elite private schools, so those are not even in the comparison.

However, this would require waaaaay more work than I'm willing to do, so they will have to make do with a good enough education. It does not matter, then, in terms of "best" whether I work or don't. We've already decided that "best" for the children in all cases is not our benchmark. A life we all enjoy is. That includes both time and income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I could do a better job homeschooling my kids all the way through high school, in every subject, than the schooling they will get at the schools we will send them to. We can't afford the world's most elite private schools, so those are not even in the comparison.

However, this would require waaaaay more work than I'm willing to do, so they will have to make do with a good enough education. It does not matter, then, in terms of "best" whether I work or don't. We've already decided that "best" for the children in all cases is not our benchmark. A life we all enjoy is. That includes both time and income.

Yes, very reasonable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

Oh hey, DH from earlier in the thread! Writing style COMPLETELY gives you away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

NOT the PP but it is ironic that you believe that you and your wife are teaching morals AND you think that "lower educated people" can not add any value to your child's life.

You don't know if you wife is a better primary parent if you have all 3 kids home or if she would be better with 1 in preschool and 1 going to a playgroup with GASP strangers (sort of like the teacher or your mom). She may be better. She may be a better parent if her H was ever home. Maybe your kids will be better kids if they had the influence of their father, or maybe your abusive and you being removed from the picture is better.

I think you realize that you turned your wife into a single parent and are question that decision, but what can you do now... you went down that rabbit hole and you are stuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

I'm the poster who works and has "good enough" childcare for my kids, and believes that parent care would have been better. I ought to support you but I don't after this comment because of the bolded part. Your choice of words belies your neutrality because you clearly think that "money or whatever else you get out of your job" could not possibly be more important than childrearing.

I will break it down again: it's not about "money or whatever else you get out of your job." It's the importance to the interests of family AS A WHOLE, not just childcare in isolation.

Once again - I believe I would have done a better job caring for my kids than any of their preschools or nannies. Preschools and nannies have provided them with great care while mine would have been better than great. But the incremental benefit of "better than great" is not large enough to erase the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE derived from my employment. And I won't allow anyone to describe the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE in the clearly derogatory language of "money or whatever else you get out of your job" that you chose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

NOT the PP but it is ironic that you believe that you and your wife are teaching morals AND you think that "lower educated people" can not add any value to your child's life.

You don't know if you wife is a better primary parent if you have all 3 kids home or if she would be better with 1 in preschool and 1 going to a playgroup with GASP strangers (sort of like the teacher or your mom). She may be better. She may be a better parent if her H was ever home. Maybe your kids will be better kids if they had the influence of their father, or maybe your abusive and you being removed from the picture is better.

I think you realize that you turned your wife into a single parent and are question that decision, but what can you do now... you went down that rabbit hole and you are stuck.

That's not what I think. Perhaps you are talking about some other poster in this thread, but that's not what I said.

As for the single parent line, I have no idea what you're talking about, but maybe you are responding to someone else in the thread. I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

I'm the poster who works and has "good enough" childcare for my kids, and believes that parent care would have been better. I ought to support you but I don't after this comment because of the bolded part. Your choice of words belies your neutrality because you clearly think that "money or whatever else you get out of your job" could not possibly be more important than childrearing.

I will break it down again: it's not about "money or whatever else you get out of your job." It's the importance to the interests of family AS A WHOLE, not just childcare in isolation.

Once again - I believe I would have done a better job caring for my kids than any of their preschools or nannies. Preschools and nannies have provided them with great care while mine would have been better than great. But the incremental benefit of "better than great" is not large enough to erase the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE derived from my employment. And I won't allow anyone to describe the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE in the clearly derogatory language of "money or whatever else you get out of your job" that you chose.

I didn't mean it derogatorily. A lot of people get personal fulfillment out of their job. Some people feel like they are better in the workforce than at home for any number of reasons. Some people feel like the advantages of the extra money outweigh the benefits of having a parent stay at home without earning money. I think that whatever the reasons, I understand that everyone has to make the choice they think is best for themselves, their families, and society as a whole. I just think that people need to be honest about the tradeoffs. People seem to be offended that others have suggested that there is any tradeoff. I understand that some people may truly feel that way, but I also understand that others do not feel that way. It just seems crazy that folks are getting so defensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

NOT the PP but it is ironic that you believe that you and your wife are teaching morals AND you think that "lower educated people" can not add any value to your child's life.

You don't know if you wife is a better primary parent if you have all 3 kids home or if she would be better with 1 in preschool and 1 going to a playgroup with GASP strangers (sort of like the teacher or your mom). She may be better. She may be a better parent if her H was ever home. Maybe your kids will be better kids if they had the influence of their father, or maybe your abusive and you being removed from the picture is better.

I think you realize that you turned your wife into a single parent and are question that decision, but what can you do now... you went down that rabbit hole and you are stuck.

That's not what I think. Perhaps you are talking about some other poster in this thread, but that's not what I said.

As for the single parent line, I have no idea what you're talking about, but maybe you are responding to someone else in the thread. I don't know.

Maybe Jeff can straighten that out for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

NOT the PP but it is ironic that you believe that you and your wife are teaching morals AND you think that "lower educated people" can not add any value to your child's life.

You don't know if you wife is a better primary parent if you have all 3 kids home or if she would be better with 1 in preschool and 1 going to a playgroup with GASP strangers (sort of like the teacher or your mom). She may be better. She may be a better parent if her H was ever home. Maybe your kids will be better kids if they had the influence of their father, or maybe your abusive and you being removed from the picture is better.

I think you realize that you turned your wife into a single parent and are question that decision, but what can you do now... you went down that rabbit hole and you are stuck.

That's not what I think. Perhaps you are talking about some other poster in this thread, but that's not what I said.

As for the single parent line, I have no idea what you're talking about, but maybe you are responding to someone else in the thread. I don't know.

Maybe Jeff can straighten that out for you.

Huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

NOT the PP but it is ironic that you believe that you and your wife are teaching morals AND you think that "lower educated people" can not add any value to your child's life.

You don't know if you wife is a better primary parent if you have all 3 kids home or if she would be better with 1 in preschool and 1 going to a playgroup with GASP strangers (sort of like the teacher or your mom). She may be better. She may be a better parent if her H was ever home. Maybe your kids will be better kids if they had the influence of their father, or maybe your abusive and you being removed from the picture is better.

I think you realize that you turned your wife into a single parent and are question that decision, but what can you do now... you went down that rabbit hole and you are stuck.

That's not what I think. Perhaps you are talking about some other poster in this thread, but that's not what I said.

As for the single parent line, I have no idea what you're talking about, but maybe you are responding to someone else in the thread. I don't know.

Maybe Jeff can straighten that out for you.

Huh?

IP.

More than one poster has outed you as the DH from earlier that spoke about uneducated nannies, etc. Just own it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

NOT the PP but it is ironic that you believe that you and your wife are teaching morals AND you think that "lower educated people" can not add any value to your child's life.

You don't know if you wife is a better primary parent if you have all 3 kids home or if she would be better with 1 in preschool and 1 going to a playgroup with GASP strangers (sort of like the teacher or your mom). She may be better. She may be a better parent if her H was ever home. Maybe your kids will be better kids if they had the influence of their father, or maybe your abusive and you being removed from the picture is better.

I think you realize that you turned your wife into a single parent and are question that decision, but what can you do now... you went down that rabbit hole and you are stuck.

That's not what I think. Perhaps you are talking about some other poster in this thread, but that's not what I said.

As for the single parent line, I have no idea what you're talking about, but maybe you are responding to someone else in the thread. I don't know.

Maybe Jeff can straighten that out for you.

Huh?

IP.

More than one poster has outed you as the DH from earlier that spoke about uneducated nannies, etc. Just own it.

who is Jeff? what is IP? I'm confused.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

I'm the poster who works and has "good enough" childcare for my kids, and believes that parent care would have been better. I ought to support you but I don't after this comment because of the bolded part. Your choice of words belies your neutrality because you clearly think that "money or whatever else you get out of your job" could not possibly be more important than childrearing.

I will break it down again: it's not about "money or whatever else you get out of your job." It's the importance to the interests of family AS A WHOLE, not just childcare in isolation.

Once again - I believe I would have done a better job caring for my kids than any of their preschools or nannies. Preschools and nannies have provided them with great care while mine would have been better than great. But the incremental benefit of "better than great" is not large enough to erase the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE derived from my employment. And I won't allow anyone to describe the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE in the clearly derogatory language of "money or whatever else you get out of your job" that you chose.

I didn't mean it derogatorily. A lot of people get personal fulfillment out of their job. Some people feel like they are better in the workforce than at home for any number of reasons. Some people feel like the advantages of the extra money outweigh the benefits of having a parent stay at home without earning money. I think that whatever the reasons, I understand that everyone has to make the choice they think is best for themselves, their families, and society as a whole. I just think that people need to be honest about the tradeoffs. People seem to be offended that others have suggested that there is any tradeoff. I understand that some people may truly feel that way, but I also understand that others do not feel that way. It just seems crazy that folks are getting so defensive.

When you put it like this, I am OK with this. Of course there is a tradeoff. As I mentioned, I think we collectively find it very painful to admit we are doing anything than the absolute possible best for our kids. And it's just not the case that absolute possible best is always possible, and good enough is good enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

I'm the poster who works and has "good enough" childcare for my kids, and believes that parent care would have been better. I ought to support you but I don't after this comment because of the bolded part. Your choice of words belies your neutrality because you clearly think that "money or whatever else you get out of your job" could not possibly be more important than childrearing.

I will break it down again: it's not about "money or whatever else you get out of your job." It's the importance to the interests of family AS A WHOLE, not just childcare in isolation.

Once again - I believe I would have done a better job caring for my kids than any of their preschools or nannies. Preschools and nannies have provided them with great care while mine would have been better than great. But the incremental benefit of "better than great" is not large enough to erase the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE derived from my employment. And I won't allow anyone to describe the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE in the clearly derogatory language of "money or whatever else you get out of your job" that you chose.

I didn't mean it derogatorily. A lot of people get personal fulfillment out of their job. Some people feel like they are better in the workforce than at home for any number of reasons. Some people feel like the advantages of the extra money outweigh the benefits of having a parent stay at home without earning money. I think that whatever the reasons, I understand that everyone has to make the choice they think is best for themselves, their families, and society as a whole. I just think that people need to be honest about the tradeoffs. People seem to be offended that others have suggested that there is any tradeoff. I understand that some people may truly feel that way, but I also understand that others do not feel that way. It just seems crazy that folks are getting so defensive.

When you put it like this, I am OK with this. Of course there is a tradeoff. As I mentioned, I think we collectively find it very painful to admit we are doing anything than the absolute possible best for our kids. And it's just not the case that absolute possible best is always possible, and good enough is good enough.

I totally agree. I think we all make decisions short of the absolute very best for our kids because we think the time, money, etc. isn't worth the additional benefit to the kids. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think irony is the right concept here, but let's put that aside. You obviously feel wronged by the fact that someone thinks his/her way of raising kids is better than yours. Seriously though -- why the vitriol? Why the thin skin? If you are so confident in your choices, just agree to disagree.

Seeing your responses though, I can see why you think that you wouldn't be a good primary parent. But the question isn't whether a bitter, angry, irrational person would be better than a professional daycare worker. Clearly, the professional would be better in that circumstance, so kudos to your wise (perhaps self-aware) choice. The question is whether a parent who is dedicated to being the best caregiver they can be would be better than a stranger who does it for a living. Someone earlier in the thread posited that they think the dedicated parent option is superior. That doesn't seem like such an outrageous position to take, and you (and others) just seem defensive. If you prioritized money or whatever else you get out of your job over the child rearing, that's fine, but let's be honest about the tradeoffs.

All of this assumes a choice in the matter, and of course, many don't have the choice for financial reasons.

I'm the poster who works and has "good enough" childcare for my kids, and believes that parent care would have been better. I ought to support you but I don't after this comment because of the bolded part. Your choice of words belies your neutrality because you clearly think that "money or whatever else you get out of your job" could not possibly be more important than childrearing.

I will break it down again: it's not about "money or whatever else you get out of your job." It's the importance to the interests of family AS A WHOLE, not just childcare in isolation.

Once again - I believe I would have done a better job caring for my kids than any of their preschools or nannies. Preschools and nannies have provided them with great care while mine would have been better than great. But the incremental benefit of "better than great" is not large enough to erase the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE derived from my employment. And I won't allow anyone to describe the benefit to the family AS A WHOLE in the clearly derogatory language of "money or whatever else you get out of your job" that you chose.

I didn't mean it derogatorily. A lot of people get personal fulfillment out of their job. Some people feel like they are better in the workforce than at home for any number of reasons. Some people feel like the advantages of the extra money outweigh the benefits of having a parent stay at home without earning money. I think that whatever the reasons, I understand that everyone has to make the choice they think is best for themselves, their families, and society as a whole. I just think that people need to be honest about the tradeoffs. People seem to be offended that others have suggested that there is any tradeoff. I understand that some people may truly feel that way, but I also understand that others do not feel that way. It just seems crazy that folks are getting so defensive.

When you put it like this, I am OK with this. Of course there is a tradeoff. As I mentioned, I think we collectively find it very painful to admit we are doing anything than the absolute possible best for our kids. And it's just not the case that absolute possible best is always possible, and good enough is good enough.

I totally agree. I think we all make decisions short of the absolute very best for our kids because we think the time, money, etc. isn't worth the additional benefit to the kids. There is nothing wrong with that.

But some people say something is a tradeoff... like I see my child less for money. But I don't see that as a tradeoff. I see that as a normal healthy relationship. I don't think it is all that healthy for a child to only have their mother as a caregiver. I am not trading one thing for the other. I think it is healthier for a child to be with people other than me sometimes. I think it is healthier for my children to have an involved father. I think it is healthier for children to grow up and realize they are not the center of the universe and that sometime mom is more important to dad and dad is more important to mom right now so you have a babysitter.

It's not necessarily a trade off but a lifestyle that I believe in, that I planned and executed.