Husbands with SAHMs that prefer they work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Precisely. The earlier PP's inherent assumption that having a SAHP is inherently superior was smug and annoying. I work, as did my mother and grandmother, and I do not think that decision means DH and I have settled for something subpar or less ideal for DD. Her daycare teachers have introduced some concepts that I wouldn't have tried to teach her at such an early age, I doubt I would have the energy to develop a weekly themed curriculm like they have in her current 2-3 year old class, nor could I teach her spanish, or provide the socialization. I do think it would be suboptimal if she were there 11 or 12 hours a day, so we stagger schedules so she spends no more than 8 hours there. If we thought her daycare teachers were simply babysitting kids and not imparting any knowledge, care, or life skills, we would find a different provider. I can understand why some people choose to SAH, and that's great for them. But I do not think their kids are getting something better than my child; it's just a different choice for a different family.

8 hours a day seems like a lot of time in childcare! 2 or 3 year olds are only awake for half the day, at most. It also seems hard to believe that you couldn't teach as much or more, or provide socialization, if you were really trying.

It's not too much to me, although YMMV. DD sleeps about 11.5 hours a night. She takes about a 2 hour nap at daycare. So that's 6 hours awake at daycare (which includes playground time with her kids), the rest of the time is spent with DH and/or I.

I think you are undervaluing the skills that teachers have. I have taught classes through various volunteer activities. There is an art to it, and kids respond differently to teachers vs. parents. I would not presume to be better equipped to teach an elementary school child than an elementary teacher. Why should I presume any differently at the preschool level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WHY in the world are you people so easily baited back into the stupid debate over SAHM vs. WOHM. Is it the same jerk that keeps resurecting the debate with a different "innocent question"? Who cares! Mind your own business. People chose to live differently, and none of us are in a position to judge. Get a life & get back to your work or taking care of your kids or whatever else useful you could be doing. This conversation is a waste of time EVERY single time it's raised here.

You are sO right. Can't believe I fell for it. Back to work for me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WHY in the world are you people so easily baited back into the stupid debate over SAHM vs. WOHM. Is it the same jerk that keeps resurecting the debate with a different "innocent question"? Who cares! Mind your own business. People chose to live differently, and none of us are in a position to judge. Get a life & get back to your work or taking care of your kids or whatever else useful you could be doing. This conversation is a waste of time EVERY single time it's raised here.

You are sO right. Can't believe I fell for it. Back to work for me!

I agree that I need to get back to being productive... but (!) I think the issue is actually a really interesting one. It's only a waste of time because people get so defensive and angry when they perceive that someone views his/her choices as superior. It's the most pronounced in parenting discussions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SAHM here. At 55 it's not easy to find a job.

You had your last child at 50.... wow!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

The ones that worked with my kids did. The Center had very low turnover and when one of the staff moved out of state for her graduate program, she would come back and visit the kids when she was in town. We still keep in touch. And later, when we switched from daycare to a nanny, our nanny became a member of our family. We see her frequently, she is still very close to us and our kids.

I'm offended because it's silly to say having a SAHM is superior. It's simply not true. It can be as good, it may be better for some families, but many of us think both parents should be involved in child-raising and in many SAHM families, this isn't the case. The dad gets a pass on too many things.

But really, what started this whole thing was a "dad" came on to say he had so much experience with daycare, though his wife stayed home and his kids were not in daycare, and they can't even afford preschool or don't prioritize it but yet he has mysteriously spent all this time with all these daycare workers.

And you are wrong - the daycare workers in our center WERE educated - most had college degrees, or working toward them (a two year degree was required) and all received periodic training had to get certain certifications in child-development before they were allowed to work.

As I said, our nanny was uneducated. She immigrated over to this country, raised her own wonderful kids, and then began working as a nanny. We found out about her through neighbor friends who no longer required a nanny as their kids were starting school. She was as I mentioned, incredibly kind, patient, smart, and taught my kids a lot, including Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Precisely. The earlier PP's inherent assumption that having a SAHP is inherently superior was smug and annoying. I work, as did my mother and grandmother, and I do not think that decision means DH and I have settled for something subpar or less ideal for DD. Her daycare teachers have introduced some concepts that I wouldn't have tried to teach her at such an early age, I doubt I would have the energy to develop a weekly themed curriculm like they have in her current 2-3 year old class, nor could I teach her spanish, or provide the socialization. I do think it would be suboptimal if she were there 11 or 12 hours a day, so we stagger schedules so she spends no more than 8 hours there. If we thought her daycare teachers were simply babysitting kids and not imparting any knowledge, care, or life skills, we would find a different provider. I can understand why some people choose to SAH, and that's great for them. But I do not think their kids are getting something better than my child; it's just a different choice for a different family.

I am the poster you're responding to. I find it deeply ironic that at work, you are probably fighting tooth and nail (or if you don't have to, your mother and grandmother probably did) for the notion that you do your job as good or better than anyone. But somehow you shy away from saying that you are able to give your child better childcare than her preschool. Seriously? Because they develop weekly themes for two-year olds?

Mind you, as I said, I work. Have worked all my life, would pretty much work into retirement. My kids are (or have been) in great preschools. They had great care. I do not, however, doubt for a second that I could have taken care of them better than any of the teachers or nannies they've had. Again, what they have or had is good. Great even. But would I have done a better job? Unquestionably. And it doesn't offend me to say that. What they have is good enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Precisely. The earlier PP's inherent assumption that having a SAHP is inherently superior was smug and annoying. I work, as did my mother and grandmother, and I do not think that decision means DH and I have settled for something subpar or less ideal for DD. Her daycare teachers have introduced some concepts that I wouldn't have tried to teach her at such an early age, I doubt I would have the energy to develop a weekly themed curriculm like they have in her current 2-3 year old class, nor could I teach her spanish, or provide the socialization. I do think it would be suboptimal if she were there 11 or 12 hours a day, so we stagger schedules so she spends no more than 8 hours there. If we thought her daycare teachers were simply babysitting kids and not imparting any knowledge, care, or life skills, we would find a different provider. I can understand why some people choose to SAH, and that's great for them. But I do not think their kids are getting something better than my child; it's just a different choice for a different family.

I am the poster you're responding to. I find it deeply ironic that at work, you are probably fighting tooth and nail (or if you don't have to, your mother and grandmother probably did) for the notion that you do your job as good or better than anyone. But somehow you shy away from saying that you are able to give your child better childcare than her preschool. Seriously? Because they develop weekly themes for two-year olds?

Mind you, as I said, I work. Have worked all my life, would pretty much work into retirement. My kids are (or have been) in great preschools. They had great care. I do not, however, doubt for a second that I could have taken care of them better than any of the teachers or nannies they've had. Again, what they have or had is good. Great even. But would I have done a better job? Unquestionably. And it doesn't offend me to say that. What they have is good enough.

Very reasonable response

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Precisely. The earlier PP's inherent assumption that having a SAHP is inherently superior was smug and annoying. I work, as did my mother and grandmother, and I do not think that decision means DH and I have settled for something subpar or less ideal for DD. Her daycare teachers have introduced some concepts that I wouldn't have tried to teach her at such an early age, I doubt I would have the energy to develop a weekly themed curriculm like they have in her current 2-3 year old class, nor could I teach her spanish, or provide the socialization. I do think it would be suboptimal if she were there 11 or 12 hours a day, so we stagger schedules so she spends no more than 8 hours there. If we thought her daycare teachers were simply babysitting kids and not imparting any knowledge, care, or life skills, we would find a different provider. I can understand why some people choose to SAH, and that's great for them. But I do not think their kids are getting something better than my child; it's just a different choice for a different family.

I am the poster you're responding to. I find it deeply ironic that at work, you are probably fighting tooth and nail (or if you don't have to, your mother and grandmother probably did) for the notion that you do your job as good or better than anyone. But somehow you shy away from saying that you are able to give your child better childcare than her preschool. Seriously? Because they develop weekly themes for two-year olds?

Mind you, as I said, I work. Have worked all my life, would pretty much work into retirement. My kids are (or have been) in great preschools. They had great care. I do not, however, doubt for a second that I could have taken care of them better than any of the teachers or nannies they've had. Again, what they have or had is good. Great even. But would I have done a better job? Unquestionably. And it doesn't offend me to say that. What they have is good enough.

I'm a new poster and I disagree with this. I'm also a working mom with kids in what I would consider to be great preschools. And the teachers are more patient than I am, have MUCH more experience with kids this age than I do (emotionally, developmentally, academically, on and on), and are able to teach the kids how to function well in a group setting, which is something that a SAHM and a once-a-week Gymboree class simply can't do. These teachers come from all races and all walks of life, and my kids know and respect that. I truly believe that it takes a village, and that this environment is "better" for kids day in and day out than I (or the vast, VAST majority of moms I know) as their only caregiver would be. I love my kids, and love being with them, and I'm not under any illusion that the daycare providers love them as much as I and their father do. If you truly believe you could do a better job than any daycare provider/preschool teacher, then I hope you work in child development. Because for the average adult, that's simply not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

Daycare workers don't have "endless patience" for kids. They are doing a job, and often for extraordinarily low pay given the importance that people supposedly place on it. They also don't really love the kids, don't have any real personal investment in the kids' long-term development, likely are not that well-educated, and may or may not have the best moral outlook to impart. If you think that given all that, it is still superior to having your children raised by them instead of a mom or dad, then fine. But why are you (and others) so offended that someone sees the SAH parent option as superior? Does everyone have to accept your choices as equal for you to feel validated?

Sigh. So, so pathetically hypocritical and you don't even see it. Guess those elementary school teachers are raising your kids once they turn 5, and your usefulness on this earth is over.

So because you'll eventually have to send your children to school, you might as well never be the one to raise them.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or incredibly stupid.

You seem like a delightful person. I can see why you think someone else would do a better job raising your kids.

Ahhh, the irony!! Look it up.

[Anonymous]

The happiest SAHMs are those who were/are prepared to be a WOHM to begin with. Usually, they were the ones who had their ducks in a row, when they did became a SAHM. That means that financial need was not a factor for them to continue to work for pay.