Is wife being unreasonable?

[Anonymous]

^ Totally agree with 9:17. If you want your parents to spend time with your son, take him for a visit this summer. Your brother's wedding is not the time to do it. Who'll manage his nap? Who'll put him to bed at 7pm? Who'll be changing his diaper? Who'll take him out when he starts crying at the wedding? Kids that age are a ton of work. You can't be best man at the wedding (or mother of the groom!) and also take care of a toddler's needs. It just doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay guys, OP here. Again. I went back and forth on continuing this thread, but ultimately I decided to update.

Many of the comments have been extremely harsh. Honestly though, that is not that shocking considering I am posting to an essentially all women/mother forum. You ladies empathize with the wife’s side, and I get that. It’s actually the relatable and natural position for you to take. I was pleased to see there were some comments that really “heard” where I was coming from. I’m not some complete jerk to my wife. I’m not perfect and neither is she. She has many wonderful qualities, but she can also be unforgiving and hold grudges, so it isn’t the easiest thing to side with her against someone I love. (I also wouldn’t side with someone else against her.)

Anyway, I took the advice to drop the idea of my wife and newborn attending the wedding. You all were loud and clear on that point. I have accepted her decision to not attend. I told her I willl be traveling Thursday - Monday and she gave me the green light. The tricky part is my son. She is still refusing to allow me to take him. We had a spirited discussion regarding it and are currently at an impasse. I have spoken to my mom about the situation and she has assured me that she will be happy to help care for my son basically the whole wedding, anytime I need anything. Due to the issues between my wife and my parents, my parents have spent very very little time with my son. (He is their only grandchild at this time.) So they are very eager. There will also be several Aunts, female cousins and friends of my mother present, some of whom I’m certain would pitch in.

My wife is being extremely emotional and unwilling to even entertain a calm and rational conversation about me taking my own kid to my brothers wedding. Surely many of you can see that that is not right. Right? She has stated that if i take my son, it will do such irreparable damage to the marriage that we likely wouldn’t survive. How would you respond to this? To those of you who at least can see that I have the right to take my son with me. Help me out here. I’d love to hear how you would frame your argument, and if you’ve ever been in a situation like this before. (One where you disagreed on something regarding your child and how you came to a solution.)

You have sided with someone else against her. You have sided with your parents when they insulted her and belittled her. You don't think that your parents' treatment of her is a problem. And honestly, this is the root of the problem, and the fact that you can't see it is the real issue. Your wife knows that you don't have her back. She knows that you're not on her side. She knows that you won't stand up for her.

And "basically" the whole wedding? Ha. Her son is getting married. She is going to have things to do. She will be busy. She will have people she wants to visit with. (Just like you, I might add.) Who is going to watch him when it's his nap time and you're supposed to be getting ready for the wedding? Who is going to leave the reception early to put your son to bed and stay with him? Who is going to take him out of the church (and miss the ceremony) when he starts crying or making noise during the ceremony? Everyone will be happy to play with a cute little toddler--until it inconveniences them and they have to miss part of the ceremony or the party to deal with him.

Honestly, I think you need to drop this. The more you push, the more your wife is going to dig in, because, at bottom, this is about your lack of respect for your wife.

Wife should not give him a problem about taking his kid. If it were the wife no one would be micromanaging how she would fill in the child care gaps; they'd assume she'd figure it out with the family's help. OP will figure it out. Wife was totally reasonable not to want to go but now she is being unreasonable. Sorry, OP, I don't know how to handle when one parent thinks they are the boss of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Firstly, you've said your Mum, and "several Aunts, female cousins and friends of my mother present" who will help look after the toddler. Is this an all woman wedding? Are you going to be the only man present? Is your plan to arrive and dump your toddler with a group of woman, some of whom you don't even know all that well? Do these woman know his preferred foods? His allergies? Any medication he requires? Do they know what to do if he gets fussy? It sounds like your plan for this wedding is to bring your child as a toy or accessory and not be a parent.

Secondly, you need to take a step back here and look at this situation out of your mothers anus. Both. Of. Your. Parents. Have. Been Verbally. Abusive. To. Your .WIFE. AND YOUR RESPONSE IS TO DEFEND THEM AND TELL HER SHE IS IN THE WRONG. What guarantee do you or your wife have that your parents won't be verbally abusive to your son? Or won't spend the entire time telling his what a 'lazy evil' mother he has? Why on earth should she trust your parents to look after her son?

IF you had a history of standing up to your parents to protect your wife and child then yes, you should take your son. But the fact is you don't, and if fact agree with all of them, which means you agree your wife was lazy, could have harm your child and deserves to be shouted at.

If you take your son, expect to come home to an empty house. Your wife deserves someone who loves her and puts her and your children first.

I'm sure there will be just as many men at the wedding as women. OP clearly sees looking after children as women's work, which is why he just "supports" his wife with the childcare and why she therefore has no faith in his ability to care for the toddler when she isn't there.

His sexism is dripping off his post... and we're only agreeing with the wife because we're women!

All of this x 1 million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I pretty much guarantee that if you take your toddler and he acts like a two year old, your parents will take every opportunity to badmouth your wife for leaving you with a toddler, and complain about how they had to miss parts of their wonderful weekend /wedding to mind a tired, overstimulated child. They’ll lash out about her not attending to watch your child, as he will pull YOUR attention away from the wedding. And on and on.

And you will fall for it, and co tinge to blame your wife for being overly emotional and holding grudges, all the while while she is being verbally abused by your family and you are allowing, supporting, and encouraging it.

It’s sad to me that you can really not see why she is not interested in participating in your family’s drama.

I absolutely agree that this is what will happen and the relationship between your wife and your parents will be much worse. All because of your selfishness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on DCUM is piling on OP for saying his mom, aunts etc. will be watching his son. But seriously, he's in a no-win situation. If he said grandfather, uncles, etc. everyone would jump on him about how men of that generation don't know the first thing about caring for a two year old. To OP: I get where you're coming from with that.

However, if you and your wife do decide to let your son go with you, I recommend you do several things before the trip. two year olds will have meltdowns, have attachment issues, will spiral in new and different environments. Change is hard for kids at that age. Your son will be dealing with a new baby, less attention from mom, and then (from his point of view) taken away from mom for several days.

I recommend you take a couple of weekend trips away with just your son from now until the wedding. Let him get used to a weekend of just him and Dad. Please don't let his first trip away from mom be for the wedding - you are setting him (and you) up for failure.

with these weekend trips, he'll be able to get comfortable going to you for everything (since your wife is a SAHM, I'm guessing your son goes to her as a first response) and you'll get comfortable navigating the situation when he has trouble.


Second, you mentioned that your parents haven't seen your son very much since he was born. After a few father/son trips, have a trip that includes your parents. During that weekend, try and be "hands -off" and I urge you to be an unbiased observer of how your parents take care of your son. Do they automatically but subtly lean on you after an hour or two? Do they rely on you when they have to multi-task (prepare food or getting ready or buying tickets or whatever while at the same time watching your son). this would be a BIG indicator of whether you could feel comfortable relying on them to watch your son.



Finally, and on a separate note, I understand your reluctance to stick up for your wife when there is dissension. It's always hard when two people you love don't like each other. But, I think you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with your parents - without your wife present - about THEIR role in this and how THEIR behavior is upsetting YOU (not upsetting your wife, but upsetting YOU).

I know because I was in the same position and for the first 5 years of our marriage, my parents didn't like my DH and made rude comments and always dismissed him. I was passive and kept telling my DH to "just ignore them" hoping it'll all go away. Well, it didn't. after a couple years of counseling (and a couple of attempts at sitting down with parents and DH) I realized that my parents love me and when I'd sit down with everyone and say "you're being mean to DH and he doesn't like it so stop" What they heard was "my DH is upset about this but I either don't care or agree with you but to keep peace and for show I'm going to sit everyone down and publicly tell you to stop."

That didn't work. Finally, when they truly believed that I - and I alone - was upset when hearing negative things about my DH they stopped.

we've been married 19 years this year and after a while (and a few reminders to my parents that they are upsetting ME with their comments) they ended up getting along with DH. Now? My mom, who is now a widow, goes to DH for advice instead of me for some things and they get along great.

All of this rambling is to say that you have to really feel bad when your parents make negative comments or yell at your wife and if you do - you need to tell your parents. If you don't? you have much bigger problems.

Great advice.

[Anonymous]

This issue is clearly bigger than whether you take your toddler to the wedding or not. In a perfect world with a better relationship with extended family, this would be a total no-brainer. But it's not given the history with your parents and either your lack of experience caring for your toddler or your wife realizing that you really will need to pass him off due to your duties.

Two year olds have melt-downs, need naps, need constant attention and care and need to be with people who make them feel safe. If you are going to be busy being a best man and pass him off to near-stranger female relatives whom your wife does not trust, then I totally get where she is coming from. My husband is a very hands-on dad with a nice reasonable extended family and I would relish sending a 2-year old off for the weekend so that I could bond with a newborn. But you clearly aren't that person and your family is not that family. This is SO not worth damaging your marriage over. Go by yourself and in the meantime, get into counseling so that you and your wife can have mature, reasonable conversations about your relationship and what *you* need to do to demonstrate that you will put your marriage first and stand up to your parents on her behalf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on DCUM is piling on OP for saying his mom, aunts etc. will be watching his son. But seriously, he's in a no-win situation. If he said grandfather, uncles, etc. everyone would jump on him about how men of that generation don't know the first thing about caring for a two year old. To OP: I get where you're coming from with that.

However, if you and your wife do decide to let your son go with you, I recommend you do several things before the trip. two year olds will have meltdowns, have attachment issues, will spiral in new and different environments. Change is hard for kids at that age. Your son will be dealing with a new baby, less attention from mom, and then (from his point of view) taken away from mom for several days.

I recommend you take a couple of weekend trips away with just your son from now until the wedding. Let him get used to a weekend of just him and Dad. Please don't let his first trip away from mom be for the wedding - you are setting him (and you) up for failure.

with these weekend trips, he'll be able to get comfortable going to you for everything (since your wife is a SAHM, I'm guessing your son goes to her as a first response) and you'll get comfortable navigating the situation when he has trouble.


Second, you mentioned that your parents haven't seen your son very much since he was born. After a few father/son trips, have a trip that includes your parents. During that weekend, try and be "hands -off" and I urge you to be an unbiased observer of how your parents take care of your son. Do they automatically but subtly lean on you after an hour or two? Do they rely on you when they have to multi-task (prepare food or getting ready or buying tickets or whatever while at the same time watching your son). this would be a BIG indicator of whether you could feel comfortable relying on them to watch your son.



Finally, and on a separate note, I understand your reluctance to stick up for your wife when there is dissension. It's always hard when two people you love don't like each other. But, I think you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with your parents - without your wife present - about THEIR role in this and how THEIR behavior is upsetting YOU (not upsetting your wife, but upsetting YOU).

I know because I was in the same position and for the first 5 years of our marriage, my parents didn't like my DH and made rude comments and always dismissed him. I was passive and kept telling my DH to "just ignore them" hoping it'll all go away. Well, it didn't. after a couple years of counseling (and a couple of attempts at sitting down with parents and DH) I realized that my parents love me and when I'd sit down with everyone and say "you're being mean to DH and he doesn't like it so stop" What they heard was "my DH is upset about this but I either don't care or agree with you but to keep peace and for show I'm going to sit everyone down and publicly tell you to stop."

That didn't work. Finally, when they truly believed that I - and I alone - was upset when hearing negative things about my DH they stopped.

we've been married 19 years this year and after a while (and a few reminders to my parents that they are upsetting ME with their comments) they ended up getting along with DH. Now? My mom, who is now a widow, goes to DH for advice instead of me for some things and they get along great.

All of this rambling is to say that you have to really feel bad when your parents make negative comments or yell at your wife and if you do - you need to tell your parents. If you don't? you have much bigger problems.

Great advice.

It would be great advice if he was bothered at all about his parent’s comments. He’s not. He is bothered that his wife doesn’t suck it up, and that’s the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like how op dismisses most perspectives bc:

1. They disagree with him and
2. They come from women.

It doesn’t matter how thoughtfully several posters have responded, even those that disagreed. [/quote

If feel so sorry for his wife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I pretty much guarantee that if you take your toddler and he acts like a two year old, your parents will take every opportunity to badmouth your wife for leaving you with a toddler, and complain about how they had to miss parts of their wonderful weekend /wedding to mind a tired, overstimulated child. They’ll lash out about her not attending to watch your child, as he will pull YOUR attention away from the wedding. And on and on.

And you will fall for it, and co tinge to blame your wife for being overly emotional and holding grudges, all the while while she is being verbally abused by your family and you are allowing, supporting, and encouraging it.

It’s sad to me that you can really not see why she is not interested in participating in your family’s drama.

This is so true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Wife should not give him a problem about taking his kid. If it were the wife no one would be micromanaging how she would fill in the child care gaps; they'd assume she'd figure it out with the family's help. OP will figure it out. Wife was totally reasonable not to want to go but now she is being unreasonable. Sorry, OP, I don't know how to handle when one parent thinks they are the boss of the kids.

In a vacuum, I would agree with this comment. But OP has shown himself to be so unable to see any flaws in his own family and also such an uninvolved father, that I just can't. FTR, my DH took our 2.5 y.o. on a vacation with ILs by himself and I stayed home with our 6w old newborn. It was an annual vacation that his family takes, and I'm the one who suggested that he go with DD...it would not have occurred to him to insist that I come or to even leave me alone with the baby at that time otherwise. Even though DH and I both work, I'm very much the "default parent" and do a much greater share of the day-to-day childcare. I also know, from experience, that my ILs can be a little careless. Nonetheless, I was confident that DH would be able to figure out caring for our DD and it would be an overall positive experience.

I think that OP's wife might not feel this same level of confidence, based on what he's told us. But, I also think there's an irrational component to all of this. She doesn't like her ILs (for good reason, IMHO), and it's probably causing her to take an extreme stance on this. The likelihood of something bad happening to the toddler on this trip is vanishingly low. At worst, he might get tired and bored...but he will survive and not be forever traumatized. We're talking about December, so I think OP should just drop this whole discussion for a month or two. And in the meantime, he should maybe suggest they attend counseling to unpack the situation with his ILs and really try to understand why she doesn't feel supported BY HIM. Her issues with the ILs are secondary. OP is obsessed with understanding that interaction, but that one would be irrelevant if OP and his DW didn't have issues between them. I have my difficulties with my ILs, including the fact that DH behaves differently around them. But I've never felt unsupported by DH when it comes to ILs. I know he'd put my needs above theirs...so the rest doesn't matter. It makes it easier to visit them or have them visit us. And it makes it easier for me to take into account his feelings about his family, since I know he isn't asking me to completely reject my own self-worth to interact with them.

[Anonymous]

BTW, OP. I've never seen a clearer example of where the phrase, "You can be right or you can be in a relationship" applied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I pretty much guarantee that if you take your toddler and he acts like a two year old, your parents will take every opportunity to badmouth your wife for leaving you with a toddler, and complain about how they had to miss parts of their wonderful weekend /wedding to mind a tired, overstimulated child. They’ll lash out about her not attending to watch your child, as he will pull YOUR attention away from the wedding. And on and on.

And you will fall for it, and co tinge to blame your wife for being overly emotional and holding grudges, all the while while she is being verbally abused by your family and you are allowing, supporting, and encouraging it.

It’s sad to me that you can really not see why she is not interested in participating in your family’s drama.

Also, will your parents criticize your wife's parenting every time your out-of-sort two year old acts up? I think you should go to the wedding - but with your eyes open to the actual situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, OP here-

I will clear up some things. The wedding date was already set by the time we announced the pregnancy. My wife is the primary caregiver but I definitely contribute and coparent when I’m home in the evenings and on the weekends. I may not know exactly as much as she does with regard to parenting our son, but I’d imagine it’s pretty close. Other than ceremony and pictures, I will be free to support my wife in any way that she requires.

The issue with taking our toddler by myself- she doesn’t want me to! When I say she doesn’t like my parents, I mean it. I am not “allowed” to take my children around my parents without her present. She doesn’t trust them/they have had a tense and hostile relationship in the past. My wife plans to have her mother travel to our home and stay with her while I’m away for the weekend, so her mother can look after the toddler.

Look guys, I appreciate the feedback. I can see that most of you feel like I should be more sympathetic and supportive to my wife’s needs/wishes. If she has something unexpected happen to her or the baby during childbirth or after, of course I wouldn’t expect her to attend. I’m speaking strictly in the sense of assuming everything goes as expected, I think she should be willing to do this for me. And for my brother/his fiancé, with whom she has a great relationship. When we first discussed attending, she mentioned perhaps having her mother watch our toddler the whole weekend and she attends with just the newborn. I can live with this as well, but now she is no longer interested in that solution. (Her mother lives same city as my parents and is a one hour drive from the wedding location. So if her mother watched our toddler during wedding weekend, my parents could still visit with him in the days following the wedding.)

The wedding is the weekend before Christmas. So if we travel back for the wedding, we will stay through Christmas and visit all of my extended family who will be in town for the wedding, and especially my parents. I believe this is a situation she is trying to avoid.

Backing up to Christmas makes the whole idea worse.

You take toddler. Be firm with this.

Wife and newborn stay home. You give on this.

You and toddler travel for an extended weekend only, up on Thursday, back on Monday, home for Christmas. You both compromise on this.

Flying 3 hours post partum with a newborn and a toddler for a wedding followed by a week plus of doing Christmas, including driving around town to pass the baby around with various relatives is a horrible, horrible idea.

From here on out, expect to stay home for Christmas.

I'm not so sure him taking the toddler by himself or with his family is good for the toddler. There must be more to it. I'd guess he hasn't proven himself capable of full-time childcare provider and to be one for 1-2 weeks while partying at a weekend wedding and then long holiday could be problematic. Some men cannot care for young children well. Some cannot plan, feed, dress, teach, actually raise a child. Raising a child is 100x more than just doing horse-play after work.

OP - tell us about a few times you took 100% responsibility for your child for longer than 1 day. How did it go? Did you pack the bags, set the schedule, feed healthy food, etc.? Or just cut corners and order McDs and Disney Junior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay guys, OP here. Again. I went back and forth on continuing this thread, but ultimately I decided to update.

Many of the comments have been extremely harsh. Honestly though, that is not that shocking considering I am posting to an essentially all women/mother forum. You ladies empathize with the wife’s side, and I get that. It’s actually the relatable and natural position for you to take. I was pleased to see there were some comments that really “heard” where I was coming from. I’m not some complete jerk to my wife. I’m not perfect and neither is she. She has many wonderful qualities, but she can also be unforgiving and hold grudges, so it isn’t the easiest thing to side with her against someone I love. (I also wouldn’t side with someone else against her.)

Anyway, I took the advice to drop the idea of my wife and newborn attending the wedding. You all were loud and clear on that point. I have accepted her decision to not attend. I told her I willl be traveling Thursday - Monday and she gave me the green light. The tricky part is my son. She is still refusing to allow me to take him. We had a spirited discussion regarding it and are currently at an impasse. I have spoken to my mom about the situation and she has assured me that she will be happy to help care for my son basically the whole wedding, anytime I need anything. Due to the issues between my wife and my parents, my parents have spent very very little time with my son. (He is their only grandchild at this time.) So they are very eager. There will also be several Aunts, female cousins and friends of my mother present, some of whom I’m certain would pitch in.

My wife is being extremely emotional and unwilling to even entertain a calm and rational conversation about me taking my own kid to my brothers wedding. Surely many of you can see that that is not right. Right? She has stated that if i take my son, it will do such irreparable damage to the marriage that we likely wouldn’t survive. How would you respond to this? To those of you who at least can see that I have the right to take my son with me. Help me out here. I’d love to hear how you would frame your argument, and if you’ve ever been in a situation like this before. (One where you disagreed on something regarding your child and how you came to a solution.)

Just don't take him.

You can't train a bunch of 60 yos on how to take care of a 1 or 2 yo while hosting a wedding. No way.

I have a 1 yo and 3 yo and neither set of parents remembers anything about raising kids 60 years ago. They're nuts. Have some gatorade, no need for a nap. One grandpa almost ran over one toddler on two separate occasions when reparking his car - did n't realize the kid follows everyone around. Still doesn't realize it! our youngest had her finger in the inner hinge of a heavy porch door when the wind blew it shut and swashed her thumb at their house, right in front of 5 of them! They were too busy chit-chatting to see any danger with the kid. They just don't see it! they don't think like a 24/7 caregiver like a mother or father or nanny would. Must be on the ball 24/7.

After the nerve damage thumb incident no one said a think. They looked awful and torn, and knew they had hurt their grandchild. No one in that room was paying attention to that child. And this wasn't even at a wedding or major holiday. Some people cannot be trusted to watch young children. We all have some of those in our lives. For us it is one grandma and the grandfather from the other side. Not their cup of tea and it is dangerous.

We even canceled a reunion weekend trip since we did not feel right about leaving a baby and 2.5 yo at the time with one set of grandparents. Of course, they would have loved it, but they were naive and didn't understand what they had volunteered to do. We pulled the plug on it. Now that the kids will be older soon, can speak up, and drive their own routines, it might work out. But both sets of grandparents are not local, they are not surrounded by little kids and seeing childcare in action. That makes it worse, to step into that role after 50 years off and no exposure to babies or toddlers except 1 or 2x a year. Not cool.

[Anonymous]

OP - it's clear your wife KNOWS that you won't be 100% dedicated to childcare (and that's to be expected) and she's uncomfortable leaving her young toddler in the hands of people she can't respect because of the way they've treated her. It is NORMAL for her to be uncomfortable with this idea. If you weren't the best man, she might feel better but to suggest that the mother of the groom is going to be on 2 year old duty the whole day is RIDICULOUS.