UVA Gang rape

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of all Greeks. Educate, educate, and educate some more that binge drinking and rape are BAD and will not be tolerated. Fire all College Officials who allow this disgusting behavior on campuses. Women on college campuses should just say no to the hookup and drinking culture. If a girl is raped on campus parents should stop paying tuition until the rapist is in jail.

Stop blaming women. Stop blaming casual sex. This is about consent, and women should be able to consent to casual sex without being judged for it.

I am not blaming women. Women need to do everything they can to empower themselves against males who want to take advantage of them. Drunk hookups give men more fuel for the fire. It is a slippery slope. Now the rape victim in the article was not drunk and was not looking for a hookup but all the men around her are wound up by that culture.

You seem to think that men cannot distinguish between someone who wants casual sex with them, and someone who does not. Pretty sexist, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FBI and DEA should investigate all Frats in the US for drug and alcohol abuse, hazing, and rape. The thugs should be prosecuted and then all the frats should be closed forever.

Just like the Catholic Church and the Penn State football program.

True. No group should be above the law.

While we're at it why don't we say that all law agencies should investigate all crimes. Endless staffing and hours for cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who asked, "what if that were your son," I ask: what if that were your daughter? What if it were you?

I said that about posted some guy's name and labeling him as a potential rapist. I don't know the guy. If it were my real son, daughter, or me being labeled as a potential depraved crimson on a website, I'd be pretty damn pissed off and put my best efforts into hunting you down for being a thoughtless coward for posting inflammatory bullshit anonymously on a website.

[Anonymous]

NP and UVa grad here. I haven't read all the responses.

UVa needs to take a hard look at itself and ban greek life for at leat one year, in my opinion. At least one sorority was shut down for far far less while I was there. My personal opinion is that Phi Psi should cease to exist at UVa, and possibly nationwide.
The school needs to provide fun and safe outlets for students at night - alternatives to the party scene. Mandatory education on drinking and sexual assault for all students.
If they do bring back Greeks, sororities should pledge in the fall too - that way the older girls can look out for younger ones instead of following the "no contact until January" rule. Frats should be required to follow new policies and face frequent inspections.
The IFC and ISC should go frat by frat and sorority by sorority and get to the bottom of hazing, drink-tampering, secret rooms, etc.
Eramo should be fired.
Sullivan should likely be fired as well.
The monsters involved in the gang rape and all other rapes should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and kicked out of school.
In the aftermath of the Hannah Graham tragedy, security on and around campus should be increased dramatically at all hours.
There should be no difference between university police and charlottesville police. A police presence is needed on that campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

+1
I really can't believe someone has posted names and pictures. What these guys did was heinous, but right now we have no idea who they were. Stop the witchhunt until there are more facts.

Here's the thing: Guys who were Phi Psi brothers at the time may not have been in the room, but they were "brothers" with the guys who were. This "brotherhood" system is built around a one-for-all, all-for-one attitude. That's supposedly its signal virtue and attraction.

They know these guys, they support these guys. And if the victim's account is correct, this was hardly a one-off: it was apparently a rite of passage for the rapists. (She reported that one of her assailants whom she knew from class didn't want to go through with it, but was told that he had to, "we had to do it too" (or words to that effect)).

So if some of them get identified and publicly shamed, and it turns out they weren't the rapists (at least this time), I'm not that upset about it. Let them explain the actions of their "brothers." If that's hard for them, or creates embarrassment in their current lives or careers, they can blame their "brothers," not Nancy Drew here.

The whole system is about sharing triumph, and revelry, and whatever credit they claim. Let them share the shame as well.

You know, frat parties are full of people, including guys who are not members of that particular frat. William Beebe raped a woman in the Phi Psi house back in the 80s, but he wasn't even a member of that frat. We don't know if the rapists were all members of the frat, and ruining the lives of some guys for just being innocent members of Phi Psi is pretty psycho.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

+1
I really can't believe someone has posted names and pictures. What these guys did was heinous, but right now we have no idea who they were. Stop the witchhunt until there are more facts.

Here's the thing: Guys who were Phi Psi brothers at the time may not have been in the room, but they were "brothers" with the guys who were. This "brotherhood" system is built around a one-for-all, all-for-one attitude. That's supposedly its signal virtue and attraction.

They know these guys, they support these guys. And if the victim's account is correct, this was hardly a one-off: it was apparently a rite of passage for the rapists. (She reported that one of her assailants whom she knew from class didn't want to go through with it, but was told that he had to, "we had to do it too" (or words to that effect)).

So if some of them get identified and publicly shamed, and it turns out they weren't the rapists (at least this time), I'm not that upset about it. Let them explain the actions of their "brothers." If that's hard for them, or creates embarrassment in their current lives or careers, they can blame their "brothers," not Nancy Drew here.

The whole system is about sharing triumph, and revelry, and whatever credit they claim. Let them share the shame as well.

I have to believe there are text messages between the fraternity members that allude to the rape. I would think that those text messages could be dug up somehow by someone like Anonymous.

Or the police

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

+1
I really can't believe someone has posted names and pictures. What these guys did was heinous, but right now we have no idea who they were. Stop the witchhunt until there are more facts.

Here's the thing: Guys who were Phi Psi brothers at the time may not have been in the room, but they were "brothers" with the guys who were. This "brotherhood" system is built around a one-for-all, all-for-one attitude. That's supposedly its signal virtue and attraction.

They know these guys, they support these guys. And if the victim's account is correct, this was hardly a one-off: it was apparently a rite of passage for the rapists. (She reported that one of her assailants whom she knew from class didn't want to go through with it, but was told that he had to, "we had to do it too" (or words to that effect)).

So if some of them get identified and publicly shamed, and it turns out they weren't the rapists (at least this time), I'm not that upset about it. Let them explain the actions of their "brothers." If that's hard for them, or creates embarrassment in their current lives or careers, they can blame their "brothers," not Nancy Drew here.

The whole system is about sharing triumph, and revelry, and whatever credit they claim. Let them share the shame as well.

You know, frat parties are full of people, including guys who are not members of that particular frat. William Beebe raped a woman in the Phi Psi house back in the 80s, but he wasn't even a member of that frat. We don't know if the rapists were all members of the frat, and ruining the lives of some guys for just being innocent members of Phi Psi is pretty psycho.

It's not some public place - it's the Phi Psi house, so yes, they are responsible for what goes down there. Back when I was at UVa, they barely even let guys into frat parties unless someone put your name on a list. They had bouncers at the door, and they usually had guys inside guarding the stairs - no one could go upstairs unless it was a brother. They were more likely just looking out for their personal belongings since the brothers live at the house, but I hope they were keeping an eye out for all kinds of trouble. The brothers there are at least guilty of looking the other way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

+1
I really can't believe someone has posted names and pictures. What these guys did was heinous, but right now we have no idea who they were. Stop the witchhunt until there are more facts.

Here's the thing: Guys who were Phi Psi brothers at the time may not have been in the room, but they were "brothers" with the guys who were. This "brotherhood" system is built around a one-for-all, all-for-one attitude. That's supposedly its signal virtue and attraction.

They know these guys, they support these guys. And if the victim's account is correct, this was hardly a one-off: it was apparently a rite of passage for the rapists. (She reported that one of her assailants whom she knew from class didn't want to go through with it, but was told that he had to, "we had to do it too" (or words to that effect)).

So if some of them get identified and publicly shamed, and it turns out they weren't the rapists (at least this time), I'm not that upset about it. Let them explain the actions of their "brothers." If that's hard for them, or creates embarrassment in their current lives or careers, they can blame their "brothers," not Nancy Drew here.

The whole system is about sharing triumph, and revelry, and whatever credit they claim. Let them share the shame as well.

You know, frat parties are full of people, including guys who are not members of that particular frat. William Beebe raped a woman in the Phi Psi house back in the 80s, but he wasn't even a member of that frat. We don't know if the rapists were all members of the frat, and ruining the lives of some guys for just being innocent members of Phi Psi is pretty psycho.

It's not some public place - it's the Phi Psi house, so yes, they are responsible for what goes down there. Back when I was at UVa, they barely even let guys into frat parties unless someone put your name on a list. They had bouncers at the door, and they usually had guys inside guarding the stairs - no one could go upstairs unless it was a brother. They were more likely just looking out for their personal belongings since the brothers live at the house, but I hope they were keeping an eye out for all kinds of trouble. The brothers there are at least guilty of looking the other way.

When were you at UVA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FBI and DEA should investigate all Frats in the US for drug and alcohol abuse, hazing, and rape. The thugs should be prosecuted and then all the frats should be closed forever.

Where will the funding come for all this investigation?

Same as drug dealers: seize their assets. Frats like the one at UVA are basically upper-class gangs. They are just the Hell's Angels or MS13 with better connections and blond hair...they deal pot and pills, fight, and rape now and then, but they are also about fraternal self help. Time for UVA to get out of the business of enabling these criminals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FBI and DEA should investigate all Frats in the US for drug and alcohol abuse, hazing, and rape. The thugs should be prosecuted and then all the frats should be closed forever.

Where will the funding come for all this investigation?

Same as drug dealers: seize their assets. Frats like the one at UVA are basically upper-class gangs. They are just the Hell's Angels or MS13 with better connections and blond hair...they deal pot and pills, fight, and rape now and then, but they are also about fraternal self help. Time for UVA to get out of the business of enabling these criminals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FBI and DEA should investigate all Frats in the US for drug and alcohol abuse, hazing, and rape. The thugs should be prosecuted and then all the frats should be closed forever.

Where will the funding come for all this investigation?

Same as drug dealers: seize their assets. Frats like the one at UVA are basically upper-class gangs. They are just the Hell's Angels or MS13 with better connections and blond hair...they deal pot and pills, fight, and rape now and then, but they are also about fraternal self help. Time for UVA to get out of the business of enabling these criminals.

I think that was actually a very astute comparison (though not sure about the Hell's Angels in particular, but that's beside the point).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who asked, "what if that were your son," I ask: what if that were your daughter? What if it were you?

I said that about posted some guy's name and labeling him as a potential rapist. I don't know the guy. If it were my real son, daughter, or me being labeled as a potential depraved crimson on a website, I'd be pretty damn pissed off and put my best efforts into hunting you down for being a thoughtless coward for posting inflammatory bullshit anonymously on a website.

Coward, not crimson...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FBI and DEA should investigate all Frats in the US for drug and alcohol abuse, hazing, and rape. The thugs should be prosecuted and then all the frats should be closed forever.

Where will the funding come for all this investigation?

Same as drug dealers: seize their assets. Frats like the one at UVA are basically upper-class gangs. They are just the Hell's Angels or MS13 with better connections and blond hair...they deal pot and pills, fight, and rape now and then, but they are also about fraternal self help. Time for UVA to get out of the business of enabling these criminals.

I think that was actually a very astute comparison (though not sure about the Hell's Angels in particular, but that's beside the point).

This type of hysterical overgeneralization is part of the problem. It's like saying that all the girls who go to frat parties are drunk whores. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FBI and DEA should investigate all Frats in the US for drug and alcohol abuse, hazing, and rape. The thugs should be prosecuted and then all the frats should be closed forever.

Where will the funding come for all this investigation?

Same as drug dealers: seize their assets. Frats like the one at UVA are basically upper-class gangs. They are just the Hell's Angels or MS13 with better connections and blond hair...they deal pot and pills, fight, and rape now and then, but they are also about fraternal self help. Time for UVA to get out of the business of enabling these criminals.

So you would close ALL fraternities. On campus or the whole organization up to nationals? And then you would liquidate all assets nationwide and pour that into extensive investigations. That's quite an operation. Do sororities get to stay active?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of all Greeks. Educate, educate, and educate some more that binge drinking and rape are BAD and will not be tolerated. Fire all College Officials who allow this disgusting behavior on campuses. Women on college campuses should just say no to the hookup and drinking culture. If a girl is raped on campus parents should stop paying tuition until the rapist is in jail.

Stop blaming women. Stop blaming casual sex. This is about consent, and women should be able to consent to casual sex without being judged for it.

I am not blaming women. Women need to do everything they can to empower themselves against males who want to take advantage of them. Drunk hookups give men more fuel for the fire. It is a slippery slope. Now the rape victim in the article was not drunk and was not looking for a hookup but all the men around her are wound up by that culture.

I disagree with that statement, prior to the women's liberation movement in the 70's rapes still happened. With female liberation women are granted greater mobility and rapist have more access to them. I professionally work with genealogy, and I am always sickened by how many aftrican slaves were raped by their owners. I don't think the female slaves were promoting a drunk culture of hookups, so what is your reasoning of why they were raped?

Now, would I warn my daughter prior to leaving for college about drinking going to a fraternity, of course. Is she going to roll her eyes and sighhat nothing is going to happen to her? Probably. If she does like a guy, goes to a fraternity party am I going to say "I told you so" or make it my life's work to hammer his rapist hide to a wall. I will be doing the later, more parents/legislatures should be doing the later...

WTF is wrong with UVA when plagarism metes a stronger punishment than rape?