Heads should roll on this horrendous issue

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Has anyone considered that the Green Beret was punished to protect him and other US military members? It's possible that Afghan commanders don't like getting their asses kicked by uninvited foreigners and are inclined to administer their own justice in response. That could easily be in the form of Martland and a humvee-full of his colleagues getting blown up by a "Taliban" IED.

The bottom line is that our leadership has put winning the war ahead of protecting children from rape. It is not that far removed from putting the killing of a militant ahead of the lives of children when a missile is launched from a drone. Lot's innocent people are harmed in wars. That's one of the best reasons to avoid them.

Yes, his ability to work there was compromised and no they don' t like it. But qt the end of the day, what he did was not morally wrong and should not be career ending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Has anyone considered that the Green Beret was punished to protect him and other US military members? It's possible that Afghan commanders don't like getting their asses kicked by uninvited foreigners and are inclined to administer their own justice in response. That could easily be in the form of Martland and a humvee-full of his colleagues getting blown up by a "Taliban" IED.

The bottom line is that our leadership has put winning the war ahead of protecting children from rape. It is not that far removed from putting the killing of a militant ahead of the lives of children when a missile is launched from a drone. Lot's innocent people are harmed in wars. That's one of the best reasons to avoid them.

And Jeff finds a way to, once again, exonerate Obama.

If our men were actually armed on base, those three men would have had a fighting chance. They were left sitting ducks DESPITE their pleas.

The punishment - a dishonorable discharge - goes way farther than it needs to.

Was Obama's support of Berghdal also for the protection of our men?

I'm sorry to tell you, but yes. Let's not leave him over there, let's bring him over here and deal with him here.

I'm not talking about getting him out (though I would not have traded terrorists for him - and make no mistake, that was more about GITMO thank Bergdahl). I'm talking about the big celebration on the WH lawn.

[Anonymous]

Look, once and for all,

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BERGDAHL - YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT BERGDAHL, THERE'S A THREAD FOR THAT ALREADY.

THIS ALSO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA. OBAMA DID NOT WRITE THE UCMJ. THE UCMJ PROSECUTED SOLDIERS FOR ASSAULT LONG BEFORE OBAMA CAME ALONG.

Got it?

If you again feel the urge to say "Obama" or "Bergdahl" refer back to this post until it sinks in.

[Anonymous]

Not the person you are arguing with but just because you write in all caps doesn't make you right. Are you saying the department of defense runs independently of the commander in chief, that he has no sway in matters of military justice? The guy pushed the rapist, he got pulled and a poor write up, which led to his being let go from service. He was not prosecuted; however the bad write up impacted his career forever down the line. These kinds of write UPS get pulled all the time. However the military wanted to bury him and the issue, so they did. You are saying Obama can't pick up a phone and call his secretary of defense, and yet a congressman (hunter) is. But Obama cant? Has no sway?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Not the person you are arguing with but just because you write in all caps doesn't make you right. Are you saying the department of defense runs independently of the commander in chief, that he has no sway in matters of military justice? The guy pushed the rapist, he got pulled and a poor write up, which led to his being let go from service. He was not prosecuted; however the bad write up impacted his career forever down the line. These kinds of write UPS get pulled all the time. However the military wanted to bury him and the issue, so they did. You are saying Obama can't pick up a phone and call his secretary of defense, and yet a congressman (hunter) is. But Obama cant? Has no sway?

If there is not more to the story, the Administration probably can do something. But, I would expect it to be done very quietly. To you, any action Obama took would have the headline, "Obama intervenes on behalf of Green Beret who struck child rapist". But, in Afghanistan the headline would be "Obama intervenes on behalf of Green Beret who struck an ALP commander". That second one would could have diplomatic, political, and even military repercussions. So, if something happened, it would be Obama acting publicly, but perhaps Ash Carter replying to Hunter that the military is taking a second look at things. Then, if Afghanistan's government makes an issue of it, Obama will simply claim he had nothing to do with it and, in fact, didn't even know about the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the person you are arguing with but just because you write in all caps doesn't make you right. Are you saying the department of defense runs independently of the commander in chief, that he has no sway in matters of military justice? The guy pushed the rapist, he got pulled and a poor write up, which led to his being let go from service. He was not prosecuted; however the bad write up impacted his career forever down the line. These kinds of write UPS get pulled all the time. However the military wanted to bury him and the issue, so they did. You are saying Obama can't pick up a phone and call his secretary of defense, and yet a congressman (hunter) is. But Obama cant? Has no sway?

Are you saying the President should send a message to the troops that lawless, brutal vigilante behavior is OK? That two wrongs make a right? That the ends always justify the means no matter what?

[Anonymous]

"If you see any Afghanis doing stuff you don't like, it's fine, just beat the shit out of them..."

With an attitude like that we'd might as well just pack up and leave Afghanistan right now. It's already over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Has anyone considered that the Green Beret was punished to protect him and other US military members? It's possible that Afghan commanders don't like getting their asses kicked by uninvited foreigners and are inclined to administer their own justice in response. That could easily be in the form of Martland and a humvee-full of his colleagues getting blown up by a "Taliban" IED.

The bottom line is that our leadership has put winning the war ahead of protecting children from rape. It is not that far removed from putting the killing of a militant ahead of the lives of children when a missile is launched from a drone. Lot's innocent people are harmed in wars. That's one of the best reasons to avoid them.

And Jeff finds a way to, once again, exonerate Obama.

If our men were actually armed on base, those three men would have had a fighting chance. They were left sitting ducks DESPITE their pleas.

The punishment - a dishonorable discharge - goes way farther than it needs to.

Was Obama's support of Berghdal also for the protection of our men?

If Obama did nothing and allowed Bergdshl to be beheaded to all to watch on the Internet the right-wing outrage machine would have been jumping up and down while hysterically demanding retribution and blaming Obama for failing to do everything in his power to protect one of our own. Sending our enemies the message that we don't value the lives of our servicemembers has repercussions in terms of how prisoners are perceived and treated. Those we are fighting against don't draw distinctions between soldiers captured because they abandoned their duty post and those captured on patrol or kidnapped from a forward operating base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, once and for all,

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BERGDAHL - YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT BERGDAHL, THERE'S A THREAD FOR THAT ALREADY.

THIS ALSO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA. OBAMA DID NOT WRITE THE UCMJ. THE UCMJ PROSECUTED SOLDIERS FOR ASSAULT LONG BEFORE OBAMA CAME ALONG.

Got it?

If you again feel the urge to say "Obama" or "Bergdahl" refer back to this post until it sinks in.

Stop screaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He was NOT punished for standing up for the kid.

He was punished for assault.

One wrong does not justify another wrong.

So of your kid had been raped and someone stepped in, you'd obviously be unhappy about the incident, right?

b/c two wrongs don't make a right .. .

Assault, in this case, is still wrong.

yeah - I get it.

You live in a black and white world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, once and for all,

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BERGDAHL - YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT BERGDAHL, THERE'S A THREAD FOR THAT ALREADY.

THIS ALSO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA. OBAMA DID NOT WRITE THE UCMJ. THE UCMJ PROSECUTED SOLDIERS FOR ASSAULT LONG BEFORE OBAMA CAME ALONG.

Got it?

If you again feel the urge to say "Obama" or "Bergdahl" refer back to this post until it sinks in.

He's commander in chief. He's ultimatel responsible. His choices are clear

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Has anyone considered that the Green Beret was punished to protect him and other US military members? It's possible that Afghan commanders don't like getting their asses kicked by uninvited foreigners and are inclined to administer their own justice in response. That could easily be in the form of Martland and a humvee-full of his colleagues getting blown up by a "Taliban" IED.

The bottom line is that our leadership has put winning the war ahead of protecting children from rape. It is not that far removed from putting the killing of a militant ahead of the lives of children when a missile is launched from a drone. Lot's innocent people are harmed in wars. That's one of the best reasons to avoid them.

And Jeff finds a way to, once again, exonerate Obama.

If our men were actually armed on base, those three men would have had a fighting chance. They were left sitting ducks DESPITE their pleas.

The punishment - a dishonorable discharge - goes way farther than it needs to.

Was Obama's support of Berghdal also for the protection of our men?

If Obama did nothing and allowed Bergdshl to be beheaded to all to watch on the Internet the right-wing outrage machine would have been jumping up and down while hysterically demanding retribution and blaming Obama for failing to do everything in his power to protect one of our own. Sending our enemies the message that we don't value the lives of our servicemembers has repercussions in terms of how prisoners are perceived and treated. Those we are fighting against don't draw distinctions between soldiers captured because they abandoned their duty post and those captured on patrol or kidnapped from a forward operating base.

Many others ways to get him back besides an in your face trade for terrorists. That was a publicity stunt. Note the father spoke Arabic - that was the fuck you to America

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, once and for all,

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BERGDAHL - YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT BERGDAHL, THERE'S A THREAD FOR THAT ALREADY.

THIS ALSO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA. OBAMA DID NOT WRITE THE UCMJ. THE UCMJ PROSECUTED SOLDIERS FOR ASSAULT LONG BEFORE OBAMA CAME ALONG.

Got it?

If you again feel the urge to say "Obama" or "Bergdahl" refer back to this post until it sinks in.

He's commander in chief. He's ultimatel responsible. His choices are clear

You think two wrongs make a right, you think the answer to any injustice is violent lawless vigilante behavior. That's obviously your "clear choice." It's not the choice I would make.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the person you are arguing with but just because you write in all caps doesn't make you right. Are you saying the department of defense runs independently of the commander in chief, that he has no sway in matters of military justice? The guy pushed the rapist, he got pulled and a poor write up, which led to his being let go from service. He was not prosecuted; however the bad write up impacted his career forever down the line. These kinds of write UPS get pulled all the time. However the military wanted to bury him and the issue, so they did. You are saying Obama can't pick up a phone and call his secretary of defense, and yet a congressman (hunter) is. But Obama cant? Has no sway?

If there is not more to the story, the Administration probably can do something. But, I would expect it to be done very quietly. To you, any action Obama took would have the headline, "Obama intervenes on behalf of Green Beret who struck child rapist". But, in Afghanistan the headline would be "Obama intervenes on behalf of Green Beret who struck an ALP commander". That second one would could have diplomatic, political, and even military repercussions. So, if something happened, it would be Obama acting publicly, but perhaps Ash Carter replying to Hunter that the military is taking a second look at things. Then, if Afghanistan's government makes an issue of it, Obama will simply claim he had nothing to do with it and, in fact, didn't even know about the case.

Ok lets see that happen. Fine by me. This isn't about Obama for me, its about the green beret..however the commanders in chiefs intent matters when today's headline says they are recommending rethinking the pullback. Its unfair to have the foot soldiers there bearing the brunt of Interpreting such a muddled policy. Here Obama does have an obligation if his top brass can't pull it together. Didn't he push repealing dont ask dont tell? Seems like he can have an impact on policy if he speaks up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, once and for all,

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BERGDAHL - YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT BERGDAHL, THERE'S A THREAD FOR THAT ALREADY.

THIS ALSO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA. OBAMA DID NOT WRITE THE UCMJ. THE UCMJ PROSECUTED SOLDIERS FOR ASSAULT LONG BEFORE OBAMA CAME ALONG.

Got it?

If you again feel the urge to say "Obama" or "Bergdahl" refer back to this post until it sinks in.

Stop screaming.

Stop bringing up unrelated things like Bergdahl. Stop trying to blame Obama for everything. Stop muddling everything up in that mess of a head of yours. Stop being such a partisan on a witch hunt.


Start applying actual logic and rationality.