My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?

Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.

Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?

You pay for it.

I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.

What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?

Are you asking why health insurance should cover health care? Perhaps you’d like to go without yourself? You don’t need that cancer medicine, do you? No chemo for you! Good parents don’t get cancer, after all. They stay healthy so the normal tax payer isn’t inconvenienced!

Actually, if my kid gets cancer, I can't drop her off at school and tell the school the cancer is their problem because its too expensive for me to solve. If my kid gets sick I'm on my own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

This is why it's tricky. I'm a teacher and am frustrated by the chair throwers and their disruption of the classroom as much as anyone, but I have never, ever, in my 26 years of teaching, seen suspensions "work" for kids who are struggling so much emotionally that they're throwing chairs in the classroom. The idea that staying home for a few days (and even further isolating kids who are already generally isolated from peers and adults at school) is going to resolve anything and help them get it together is just not understanding of the issue. These kids need HELP. They need support to build their coping skills, appropriate behaviors, etc. Just suspending them and hoping they magically learn how to control themselves is not setting anyone up for success.

I've never seen suspensions work, either. If anything, the problem behavior often gets worse after the suspension.

Leaving the kids in the classroom to throw chairs while the other students evacuate doesn’t help either and damages their education. If suspensions mean the other kids can learn, then that’s okay. A child who throws furniture should not be in a mainstream classroom.

The problem is suspensions tend to be very short (a couple days) and then the student returns to the same classroom. They also require a ton of paperwork and other meetings--just to have hte child leave for a couple days and then return with worse issues in many cases.

Expulsion has always been really rare and difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?

Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.

Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?

You pay for it.

I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.

What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?

This is not an apples to apples comparison. Health insurance pays for treatment for cystic fibrosis. In theory it does for mental health care too. But for those of us who have kids or family members with serious mental health issues, we know that insurance isn’t a real resource.

And warning for those of you with kids under 18, once they hit the age of majority, you’re locked out of the process and it’s very easy for your child to end up on the streets or in a homeless shelter when treatment is denied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

This is why it's tricky. I'm a teacher and am frustrated by the chair throwers and their disruption of the classroom as much as anyone, but I have never, ever, in my 26 years of teaching, seen suspensions "work" for kids who are struggling so much emotionally that they're throwing chairs in the classroom. The idea that staying home for a few days (and even further isolating kids who are already generally isolated from peers and adults at school) is going to resolve anything and help them get it together is just not understanding of the issue. These kids need HELP. They need support to build their coping skills, appropriate behaviors, etc. Just suspending them and hoping they magically learn how to control themselves is not setting anyone up for success.

I've never seen suspensions work, either. If anything, the problem behavior often gets worse after the suspension.

Leaving the kids in the classroom to throw chairs while the other students evacuate doesn’t help either and damages their education. If suspensions mean the other kids can learn, then that’s okay. A child who throws furniture should not be in a mainstream classroom.

+1. Why is it okay to put other students in danger, to disrupt other students educations, just in the name of inclusion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

This is why it's tricky. I'm a teacher and am frustrated by the chair throwers and their disruption of the classroom as much as anyone, but I have never, ever, in my 26 years of teaching, seen suspensions "work" for kids who are struggling so much emotionally that they're throwing chairs in the classroom. The idea that staying home for a few days (and even further isolating kids who are already generally isolated from peers and adults at school) is going to resolve anything and help them get it together is just not understanding of the issue. These kids need HELP. They need support to build their coping skills, appropriate behaviors, etc. Just suspending them and hoping they magically learn how to control themselves is not setting anyone up for success.

I've never seen suspensions work, either. If anything, the problem behavior often gets worse after the suspension.

Leaving the kids in the classroom to throw chairs while the other students evacuate doesn’t help either and damages their education. If suspensions mean the other kids can learn, then that’s okay. A child who throws furniture should not be in a mainstream classroom.

I think the idea is that if the teachers make a big fuss about it so it can be documented every time it happens and the admin and parents know about it, the student can get support more quickly than if they just get suspended over and over. My guess is that a kid who is behaving so dangerously that a teacher is justified in evacuating the classroom is also being really disruptive during other times of the day as well, but in a way that wouldn't justify suspension. So it's possible that doing things like evacuating classrooms is a faster way to make the classroom a place where kids can learn because the kid will get support sooner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?

Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.

Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?

You pay for it.

I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.

What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?

Are you asking why health insurance should cover health care? Perhaps you’d like to go without yourself? You don’t need that cancer medicine, do you? No chemo for you! Good parents don’t get cancer, after all. They stay healthy so the normal tax payer isn’t inconvenienced!

No, I am telling you that while health insurance covers much medical costs, people with chronic or terminal illness are shouldering tens of thousands of medical costs per year. You are not more deserving than them to have your child’s medical expenses passed on to the taxpayer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?

Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.

Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?

You pay for it.

I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.

What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?

My child requires expensive medical equipment that our insurance contributes $0 towards. In addition to private paying for my child’s equipment I am aware I pay taxes that go into a program that provides money towards this equipment for children who can’t afford it. Because I am not a monster I am absolutely delighted that such a program exists. If you have not experienced the insanity of insurance refusing to pay for something your doctor says is absolutely necessary for you or your child count yourself lucky. There is a reason we have publicly funded programs in this country- our private providers do not care about coverage. They care about profits. We need a lot more publicly funded programs for mental health and developmental disorders. I agree schools can’t do it all but they are desperately trying to fill an enormous hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?

Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.

Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?

You pay for it.

I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.

What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?

Are you asking why health insurance should cover health care? Perhaps you’d like to go without yourself? You don’t need that cancer medicine, do you? No chemo for you! Good parents don’t get cancer, after all. They stay healthy so the normal tax payer isn’t inconvenienced!

No, I am telling you that while health insurance covers much medical costs, people with chronic or terminal illness are shouldering tens of thousands of medical costs per year. You are not more deserving than them to have your child’s medical expenses passed on to the taxpayer.

And who are you to tell her that?

In this society, we have determined that she is more deserving. If you don't like it, you can leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this

They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors

Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.

Blame the administration for making this insane system.

And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.

Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.

These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.

I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.

Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.

But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.

In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.

Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.

Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.

No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?

Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.

Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?

You pay for it.

I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.

What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?

Are you asking why health insurance should cover health care? Perhaps you’d like to go without yourself? You don’t need that cancer medicine, do you? No chemo for you! Good parents don’t get cancer, after all. They stay healthy so the normal tax payer isn’t inconvenienced!

No, I am telling you that while health insurance covers much medical costs, people with chronic or terminal illness are shouldering tens of thousands of medical costs per year. You are not more deserving than them to have your child’s medical expenses passed on to the taxpayer.

And who are you to tell her that?

In this society, we have determined that she is more deserving. If you don't like it, you can leave.

"We" have not decided anything. That dumb law was passed in 2004 and its going to be death of public education as we know it. A generation from now, public schools will just be poor kids and chair throwers because any one who could get out, did. Its shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?

Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.

Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?

You pay for it.

And is she cannot afford it, what happens to her child?

Be a responsible parent and stop expecting taxpayers to foot the bill for everything.

But this parent and other parents who send their kids to privates should foot the bill so that your kid can enjoy the public school system. Nice!

These kids can come back if/when they can use up a fair share of resources without having a detrimental effect on other kids.

Who determines what a fair share of resources is?

My determination would be different from yours. I certainly don't want my tax dollars footing the bills for parents who want to kick out other children from school. I don't think it's a fair use of my tax dollars. These parents shouldn't be taking any resources other than the money they put into the school system since they don't believe in community working together for all children.

You don't care about all children. You're clearly prioritizing some over others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.

Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.

So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?

Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.

Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?

You pay for it.

I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.

What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?

Are you asking why health insurance should cover health care? Perhaps you’d like to go without yourself? You don’t need that cancer medicine, do you? No chemo for you! Good parents don’t get cancer, after all. They stay healthy so the normal tax payer isn’t inconvenienced!

No, I am telling you that while health insurance covers much medical costs, people with chronic or terminal illness are shouldering tens of thousands of medical costs per year. You are not more deserving than them to have your child’s medical expenses passed on to the taxpayer.

And who are you to tell her that?

In this society, we have determined that she is more deserving. If you don't like it, you can leave.

"We" have not decided anything. That dumb law was passed in 2004 and its going to be death of public education as we know it. A generation from now, public schools will just be poor kids and chair throwers because any one who could get out, did. Its shameful.

Oh and political support for public schools will vanish because so few people will actually be using the public schools.

[Anonymous]

Public schools are in rapid decline. This thread strongly supports that.

[Anonymous]

This is a feisty discussion. I bet it will be featured in tomorrow’s blog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I had a chair thrower in 1st grade. He is now top of his class in 4th grade and one of the better behaved kids. It took a lot of therapy, meds, and the right type of school support. It's exhausting and horrible. My kid will now tell me things like "in 1st grade my teacher thought I was so bad, she never let me play at recess and I always had to sit alone". I don't have much advice for the other parents, because all of my energy was tied up in trying to help my own kid. Maybe if it makes you feel better you can try to be grateful that your child doesn't struggle this way? Not trying to he snarky, just offering another viewpoint. I also think it's totally fine to keep asking the principal to be moved to another classroom if your child is truly bothered or having trouble learning.

Sorry but what kid wouldn’t be bothered or have trouble learning if they think that at any minute someone might throw a chair at them? Imagine if this was allowed at work. I do have sympathy for the chair throwing kid too but not at the expense of every other kid + teachers’ safety. First priority at school should be making sure all kids and staff are sane, if you can’t do that, no learning will be happening.

My kid would be fine. Same way they’re not terrified when they see a crazy homeless person, or a loud barking dog, or a kid with cerebral palsy, or whatever else it is that you find undesirable or that makes you uncomfortable.

Nothing in your post indicates your kid is under any threat.

Wow so you think the possibility of another person throwing a chair at your kid's head is no big deal? I can see a homeless person, a dog, or a kid with disabilities (WTF they don't present any danger) without issue. We're talking about a violent, aggressive, unpredictable person IN your kids' classroom. That IS an issue. You're dense if you think it's NBD.

Imagine this is an adult throwing chairs at workplace. Of course it’s a safety issue and big deal. I don’t understand people who think this is nothing to worry about.

Why? I thought we moved past the understanding that children are miniature adults in the Middle Ages. Are you THAT behind? Even car insurance companies understand the human brain isn’t fully formed for emotional regulation until 25. Why are you thinking a 6 year old should be held to adult standards? Should they drive?