Columbia permanently pulls out of US news

[Anonymous]

I don’t believe a linear ranking of colleges and universities makes sense. It may be better to lump them together in groups of 10. But within the bucket, colleges don’t get individually ranked. What exactly is the difference between the number 1 and number 3 ranked school? Pretty much nothing. And peers don’t know enough to rank other schools so precisely.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a thought experiment, I'd like to see every department in the top 200 colleges ranked by some broad brush, focused on this "merit" argument. Let's see average SAT by degree by college. CS kids at even mid-range CS programs like Santa Clara would come out above a lot of liberal arts kids at ivy schools.

I'm a liberal arts proponent - I just think the "merit" thing is bullshit. No, your drama kid at Brown is not more meritorious than a CS kid at Cal Poly SLO.

At the top ivies, including Columbia, the test score cut-off is 1550 unless you're a recruited athlete or something. The difference between that and 1600 is only a few questions. So it's sort of splitting hairs at the top tail of the SAT distribution.

But I agree on the merit of a CS at Caltech. The drama kids did need a 1550 to get into their ivy, but in terms of sheer brain power it's no contest.

NP.

You are correct. The average SAT score for Columbia is generally around 1500-1560 depending on year and number of hooks.

However the average sat score for Columbia GS is around 1450. One of the things that Columbia wants to avoid is including the GS because it would the add fuel to the fire that Columbia is the weakest Ivy and has significantly lower stats that the schools it wants to be considered peers with, as opposed to the school it truly is a peer to.

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/columbia-university/admissions#:~:text=Columbia%20University%20is%20extremely%20selective,applications%20are%20due%20January%201.
https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/Columbia-University--School-of-General-Studies-sat-scores-GPA#:~:text=The%20average%20SAT%20score%20composite,General%20Studies%20is%20a%201450.

Columbia should get rid of GS. Why it includes a separate undergrad college that other top colleges do not have? The only real reason I can see is for $$$

can someone explain to me what exactly "General Studies" is? I have never heard of this major.

https://www.gs.columbia.edu

"The School of General Studies of Columbia University is the finest liberal arts college in the United States created specifically for returning and nontraditional students seeking a rigorous, traditional, Ivy League undergraduate degree full or part time.

GS is also home to innovative dual and joint degree programs open to all students, including those applying directly from high school, in partnership with List College of the Jewish Theological Seminary, Sciences Po, Trinity College Dublin, Tel Aviv University, and City University of Hong Kong."

The former is what people extol because it offers an education to non-traditional students

The latter is what some people seem to be suggesting is a "side door" for HS students to ultimately get a Columbia degree without going through the normal admissions process. I know at least one graduating senior who is doing one of those dual degree programs, but I don't know that he wouldn't have gotten in normally. He seemed excited about going to Tel Aviv for two years and coming out with a degree from both Tel Aviv and Columbia. Two years in another country is an awfully long time for someone just to get an Ivy degree in the end, but I suppose some might be willing to do that. Seems like you could do the same thing just by transferring, but this gives you a guaranteed Columbia degree in the end.

And yet it's these "side-door" students spending two years elsewhere who disprove the complaint that GS students take the same classes as everybody else.

I agree that educating non-traditional students is a valuable mission and it shouldn't be penalized by rankings systems.

Let's face it, the USNWR is targeted at high school juniors and their families, i.e. at the "traditional" straight-out-of-high-school students. In which case GS doesn't seem like it belongs in a rankings system anyway. Columbia College and SEAS are targeted at traditional students, and it seems like that's the group that should be compared to similar "traditional student" groups at other colleges.

It's the Columbia that integrates the two.

Columbia School of General Studies students sit in the same classrooms with Columbia College undergrads. Both groups get the same diploma from Columbia University.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

The number of Rhodes Scholars Columbia produces (per student) tracks with other schools at the bottom of T20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

The number of Rhodes Scholars Columbia produces (per student) tracks with other schools at the bottom of T20.

UVA has more than twice the number of RSS at 56. Columbia, an Ivy, has only 26

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

The number of Rhodes Scholars Columbia produces (per student) tracks with other schools at the bottom of T20.

UVA has more than twice the number of RSS at 56. Columbia, an Ivy, has only 26

Columbia is more concerned with creating and hiring Nobel Prize winners, a much more prestigious award where UVA lags painfully behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe a linear ranking of colleges and universities makes sense. It may be better to lump them together in groups of 10. But within the bucket, colleges don’t get individually ranked. What exactly is the difference between the number 1 and number 3 ranked school? Pretty much nothing. And peers don’t know enough to rank other schools so precisely.

This! US News should create groups/tiers and then list universities alphabetically within each group/tier.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

The number of Rhodes Scholars Columbia produces (per student) tracks with other schools at the bottom of T20.

UVA has more than twice the number of RSS at 56. Columbia, an Ivy, has only 26

Columbia is more concerned with creating and hiring Nobel Prize winners, a much more prestigious award where UVA lags painfully behind.

No UVA graduate or active faculty member has ever won a Nobel Prize.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

The number of Rhodes Scholars Columbia produces (per student) tracks with other schools at the bottom of T20.

UVA has more than twice the number of RSS at 56. Columbia, an Ivy, has only 26

Columbia is more concerned with creating and hiring Nobel Prize winners, a much more prestigious award where UVA lags painfully behind.

No UVA graduate or active faculty member has ever won a Nobel Prize.

Really? That’s embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

The number of Rhodes Scholars Columbia produces (per student) tracks with other schools at the bottom of T20.

UVA has more than twice the number of RSS at 56. Columbia, an Ivy, has only 26

Columbia is more concerned with creating and hiring Nobel Prize winners, a much more prestigious award where UVA lags painfully behind.

false equivalents

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

The number of Rhodes Scholars Columbia produces (per student) tracks with other schools at the bottom of T20.

UVA has more than twice the number of RSS at 56. Columbia, an Ivy, has only 26

Columbia is more concerned with creating and hiring Nobel Prize winners, a much more prestigious award where UVA lags painfully behind.

No UVA graduate or active faculty member has ever won a Nobel Prize.

Really? That’s embarrassing.

How ignorant are you!? William Faulkner! you need to learn to read more closely. The poster was jerking you around by using the word "active" - that shoul ve have jumped out at you.

How else do you explain this in wiki:

The university's alumni, faculty, and researchers have included several U.S. presidents, heads of state, Nobel laureates, Pulitzer Prize winners, Rhodes Scholars, Marshall Scholars, and Fulbright Scholars. Some 30 different governors of U.S. states have attended the university, as have numerous U.S. senators and members of Congress. UVA has produced 55 Rhodes Scholars, eighth most in the United States, while its alumni have founded numerous companies (such as Reddit, CNET, and Space Adventures) which together produce more than $1.6 trillion in annual revenue and have created 2.3 million jobs.[17]

Also Julian Bond was chosen to host the Nobels conference in 1998.

And Woodrow Wilson, an alum was also a recipient

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe a linear ranking of colleges and universities makes sense. It may be better to lump them together in groups of 10. But within the bucket, colleges don’t get individually ranked. What exactly is the difference between the number 1 and number 3 ranked school? Pretty much nothing. And peers don’t know enough to rank other schools so precisely.

How would you group the schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe a linear ranking of colleges and universities makes sense. It may be better to lump them together in groups of 10. But within the bucket, colleges don’t get individually ranked. What exactly is the difference between the number 1 and number 3 ranked school? Pretty much nothing. And peers don’t know enough to rank other schools so precisely.

How would you group the schools?

Even with Columbia’s scandal, I would go:

Tier 1A: Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Princeton

Tier 1B: Caltech, Yale, UPenn + Wharton, Duke, Columbia

Tier 2A: Dartmouth, Brown, Johns Hopkins, UChicago, Northwestern, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore

Tier 2B: Vanderbilt, Cornell, WashU, Rice, Pomona, Bowdoin, Georgetown + SFS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe a linear ranking of colleges and universities makes sense. It may be better to lump them together in groups of 10. But within the bucket, colleges don’t get individually ranked. What exactly is the difference between the number 1 and number 3 ranked school? Pretty much nothing. And peers don’t know enough to rank other schools so precisely.

How would you group the schools?

Even with Columbia’s scandal, I would go:

Tier 1A: Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Princeton

Tier 1B: Caltech, Yale, UPenn + Wharton, Duke, Columbia

Tier 2A: Dartmouth, Brown, Johns Hopkins, UChicago, Northwestern, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore

Tier 2B: Vanderbilt, Cornell, WashU, Rice, Pomona, Bowdoin, Georgetown + SFS

Notre Dame in Tier 2B

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:GS had more Rhodes scholarships than CC one year recently. It's nothing like an extension school and it's not a gen ed degree. You have a major, you take same classes with all other Columbia students. You just can't come directly out of HS. Faculty loves the GS students, which isn't surprising.

GS has had only two Rhodes -class of ‘13 and class of ‘17. Generally Columbia isn’t a big producer of RSS.

The number of Rhodes Scholars Columbia produces (per student) tracks with other schools at the bottom of T20.

UVA has more than twice the number of RSS at 56. Columbia, an Ivy, has only 26

Columbia is more concerned with creating and hiring Nobel Prize winners, a much more prestigious award where UVA lags painfully behind.

No UVA graduate or active faculty member has ever won a Nobel Prize.

Utterly false: The University of Virginia has been affiliated with many highly decorated alumni and faculty. Over the years, there have been many noted Nobel Laureates who were directly affiliated with the university. They include Clinton Davisson, Ronald Coase, Barry Marshall, and James M. Buchanan, just to name a few. The list of awards received by these men and many others is quite long and shows a solid history of academic excellence.

and note that a few people of note like Thomas Jefferson and Edgar Allan Poe might have received it but the award didn't exist then.