When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce

[Anonymous]

A is not entitled to anything including more lies. Let’s start there. Adolescent kids get to choose their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A is not entitled to anything including more lies. Let’s start there. Adolescent kids get to choose their parents.

You sound like a B who wants input into what C thinks about A. And regardless of what is going on, THAT is bad for C.

[Anonymous]

Not telling kids about your sex life is not secrets or lies. I don't understand this. You guys come down from the bedroom talking about what a good banging you just had? If you don't are you HIDING your sex from your kids? That is as insane as as cognitively dissonant as anything you think the rest of us are saying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you tell your kids the intimate details of a marriage that fell apart over 5 years because dad didn't do enough around the house and mom had to pick up the pieces which caused her to resent him and then stop having sex with him and then they fought a lot and then they didn't love each other anymore?

No.

Would you tell your kids if Mommy wracked up 20k in debt in credit cards due to a compulsive shopping addiction and Dad discovered it and now the family is in financial crisis and mom and dad are divorcing?

No.

Would you tell the kids that grandma poisoned mom and dad's relationship by constantly nagging and interfering and now we hate each other and mom literally cannot be in a room with her mother in law ever again so is leaving dad because he's incapable of drawing boundaries?

No.

Would you tell the kids that mom lost all the baby weight and got hot and suddenly wanted to be single again so left dad?

No.

Because these are dynamics between mom and dad, and they don't owe the kids that. You owe them love and a commitment to keep their lives as stable as possible. If you make your kids an active player in an adult relationship you are doing wrong by them. If you are putting them in a position to enact consequences for a parent based on the divorce you are doing wrong by them.

Of course there are scenarios where kids are going to learn the truth, and no one should lie to a kid asking a direct question, but kids should be protected and they should feel like both their parents love them and have a handle on the situation at hand. If you're exposing them to uncertainty and stress when you can avoid it, you're doing wrong by them.

And so, OF COURSE, the cheater has done wrong by them by exposing them to uncertainty and stress. But that does not give the other parent some free pass to do it too.

All these scenarios are not as much outrageous and hurtful for anyone in the family as cheating. Dont forget that cheaters always try to shift the blame to innocent spouse. My exH was trying to make it look like I was the whole source of the trouble (constantly making fun of me in front of the son, humiliating me, critiquing until the affair was discovered) . He made my life a living hell and really made be believe I needed anti-depressants, going crazy, always guilty for tiniest missteps.
When the affair was discovered he lied that "it was his colleague", that it's in fact me who wants to break the family, I was crazy, violent and similar BS. It took court discovery and a legal battle to return my good name for my child.
Even after the divorce he continues poisoning my life bad mouthing me with former joint friends

You're making it about you, and it isn't like you and your emotional reaction are unimportant but for THIS question about involving kids it isn't relevant. Find a way to get justice for yourself against the spouse without involving your kids. Even if a parent is a drug addict basically everyone agrees that if they're still trying to have a positive relationship with the kid that is a worthwhile thing. Kids should be encouraged to have good relationships with both parents, no matter what their flaws, because they can't pick new parents and because abandonment is VERY traumatic for kids, no matter the circumstances or the quality of people involved.

Your exH may have cheated on you, but from what you say, the worse offense was the emotional abuse. The cheating isn't what made your spouse a terrible person, it was a symptom of his being generally awful. If he treats your child like this than your child will have to come to the same realizations you did about their dad. And it will be painful for them too. But it should come from your CHILD'S experiences with them, not vicariously through yours. That is their journey to take.

My son is currently experiencing the same emotional abuse that I was experiencing when he stays overnights there: control and blackmailing with money, abandonment alone at home (even at night), limiting socialization. It got to the point when my son told that he had no respect to dad but he still goes there as otherwise dad threatens not to pay for his college living expenses (which is in marital settlement agreement).
For my son knowing about the cheating and the person my exH cheated on also allowed to tell father not to BRING this person anywhere near to him or under the same roof, or the son would leave. If he didn't know, then dad would have introduced a "girlfriend", such a nice and kind lady ! I didn't not and won't keep her identity secret from my adolescent son! What the f...k? I am not discussing her sex life with my exH but the idea that she's the skunk who was putting out in hotels did get the message across that she's not the person my son wants to live with under the same roof. This is priceless.
Male cheaters are rarely good parents, particular if they were absent parents during marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster whose DH learned about his father’s affair from a middle school bully in the middle of the cafeteria. I have a question for those of you who believe in not telling kids: do you think how he learned (which was painful and traumatic) is preferable to a quiet conversation with a loving parent?? I cannot understand that world view whatsoever. It seems phenomenally cruel.

The pp who did it at the psychologist did the right thing.

Loving parent or not, it's difficult to have a "quiet' conversation when you are angry, hurt , betrayed and bitter( and rightfully so if your spouse cheated on you and destroyed your mutual vision for the family).

And people really overlook the selfishness of cheaters. While the non- cheating spouse is telling the child what happened, the cheater will tell a very different story to defend themselves. If they are capable of cheating and all the lying and gaslighting thst comes with it, they are more than capable of trying to defend themselves to the children. This too will be cruel and confusing to the child.

With both parents and a professional present, an appropriate conversation is more likely to happen.

Sure, tell them with a psychologist, but you are still recommending telling them. What I am wondering about is the view of the people in favor of hiding affairs. Do those people think it is better to learn about cheating from a middle school bully or proactively from parents or in a therapist’s office? Because my impression of the “never tell” people is that they actually think it’s better for a child to learn from his middle school bully than to hear it proactively, which I find astonishing.

I think you are misunderstanding their opinion. They are not necessarily in favor of hiding affairs. They think that the chances of messing up in the process of telling the kids is much higher than the chances of the kid being messed up by finding out elsewhere.

You might disagree with their assessment, but claiming that they are in favor of hiding affairs is an misunderstanding of their position.

I don' t tell my kids about my sex life with their dad. It dies not mean that DH and I are hiding our sex lives. It's just not an appropriate conversation to have with them.

Okay, but that still doesn’t answer my question, which I think the pro-not-telling contingent is avoiding at this point: for those of you who do not think that children should be proactively told about the truth of parental affairs: do you think that it was better for my DH to learn about his father’s affair from a bully in the middle school cafeteria as opposed to proactively learning the truth from his parents or in a therapist’s office?

Because my impression from the not-telling posters is that hiding the affair — and I’m really not sure what else it is if you are not telling the kids what happened — is more important than protecting the kids from learning about the truth of the affair in ways like my DH did. I find that viewpoint unfathomable. I cannot imagine, seeing the fallout my DH went through, leaving a child unprotected that way. It is incomprehensible to me.

I have specifically said if you feel like there is a more than likely scenario where a kid will be told in an environment like school (because of the players involved or the scope of people in the middle of the conflict) then you should find a healthy and safe way to proactively tell them, with the help of a therapist and if possible the cheating spouse telling them not the other spouse because then it becomes about the cheating spouse confessing to the kid what they did and it is between the two of them. It doesn't place the kid in a position of choosing sides in a conflict, it becomes a conflict between the kid and the cheating spouse directly. But if the middle school bully knows then one or both parents are running their mouths, and THAT is not what any of us are suggesting. Don't tell your kid but do spread it all over town is not what anyone is advocating. The parents know if it is OUT THERE or not, or they should.

But I would also challenge you and your DH to think more critically about what happened to him. Because what most people are saying is that you should tell your kids what they need to know in a healthy way that is focused on THEIR continuing to believe that their life is stable, that their parents love them, that they know what to expect etc. I think situations like your DH it is likely not THAT but parents failing on these other marks and then the finding out in a bad way is just a symptom of other bad things happening.

So like, keeping it from a kid, then having mom talk about it all over town until everyone knows, then continuing not to tell the kid knowing they will be humiliated, and then not admitting it when they are humiliated and ask about it. The crime there was not neglecting to proactively tell the kid on day 1. The crime there is not assessing the kid's experience of the situation, not keeping it within an appropriate circle, not understanding when it escaped that circle, not then proactively telling the kid to protect them from that.

You are making it all about the first decision when in reality it is about a LOT of bad decisions, all of which point to bad parenting.

Sure, I’m not going to disagree that there was a full cluster of bad parenting from my cheating FIL (not from my MIL). Among other bad decisions, he asked my MIL not to tell the kids (using the reasoning the don’t-tell people here have promoted) and she agreed, which she of course deeply regretted after my poor DH came home from that day in the cafeteria. My DH was (as a teen) angry with her for not telling him the truth, and it took years for him to realize the awful position her DH had put her in. She thought she was doing the right thing and didn’t know that FIL had been open about the affair in their social circles.

And really, that’s the thing I don’t get here. You seem to think that cheaters are sober, good decision-makers who make good parenting decisions for the benefit of their kids. That really doesn’t track at all with my experience. In my experience, I’ve yet to see a cheater who put their kids first. And the kids know it. They know their mom or dad doesn’t really care about them. Certainly my DH knew that. And so I’m extremely skeptical that cheating parents can somehow cheat yet also be a caring advocate for their kids and be able to soberly assess whether their kids will learn about the truth of the affair in situations like the one my DH endured. I just don’t see cheaters suddenly becoming the kind of parent who care about protecting their kids from harm, when there is concrete evidence that they are pretty delusional. Maybe there are cheaters out there that can soberly assess whether their kids are more likely to be hurt by being told by their parents or not, but when I look around at the cheating parents I’ve known, they are pretty universally incapable of that level of self-reflection.

And I would assume your DH correctly holds his dad accountable then? Not his mom? It took awhile but he got there. There was no avoiding the terrible conclusion that his dad sucks. But he got there because of things his dad did to HIM. He didn't have to get there by feeling like he took his mom's side over his dad's because she wanted him to.

And regardless of how he feels about it now, he cannot actually speak to the inverse situation where the mom in that case tells the kid and hates the dad and the kid lives with the specter of hate and discord and feeling like they are a pawn in a war. Lots of us are speaking to that being just as crappy.

Just because you have yet to see a cheater put their kids first doesn't mean they don't exist. I have a friend who cheated on her husband for a lot of bad reasons. They did therapy, stayed together, have three wonderful kids and I can't speak to their marriage honestly but she is a WONDERFUL mother. You are using a really narrow personal experience to extrapolate something about all cheaters. Just like every other kind of person there is a LOT of people on that spectrum. And they are not all terrible people and they are not all terrible parents.

Basically my entire position is that the needs of the kids need to be paramount and parents need to soberly evaluate the situation and make decisions based on the kid's need not their own. There are situations where that means telling them, and situations where that means not telling them. IMO I will continue to believe that if they CAN be protected from that, they should be.

I agree with you on the bolded, but I disagree that in general the default rule should be to not tell, largely because I simply don’t think it’s realistic if you want to protect your kids from being told by someone who wants to hurt them (like the middle school bully). The cheating happened. Unless it was kept deeply secret such that only the cheater, the AP, and the ex will ever know (unusual), the kids will eventually find out. It’s only a question of when and how, and I think it’s delusional to pretend otherwise.

I am also skeptical that cheating parents are capable of the bolded, generally speaking. You are basing your idea of the “good cheater” on your one friend, but that’s a pretty narrow and IMO unusual situation. Certainly that doesn’t track my lived experience (not just my FIL) nor that of most people I know.

My DH had a good relationship with his mom eventually, but it was harmed for years because he felt she had deceived him (which she had, to be blunt). Of course finding out the way he did was traumatic and he (as a hurt teen) lashed out at both parents, not just the one who was really at fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you tell your kids the intimate details of a marriage that fell apart over 5 years because dad didn't do enough around the house and mom had to pick up the pieces which caused her to resent him and then stop having sex with him and then they fought a lot and then they didn't love each other anymore?

No.

Would you tell your kids if Mommy wracked up 20k in debt in credit cards due to a compulsive shopping addiction and Dad discovered it and now the family is in financial crisis and mom and dad are divorcing?

No.

Would you tell the kids that grandma poisoned mom and dad's relationship by constantly nagging and interfering and now we hate each other and mom literally cannot be in a room with her mother in law ever again so is leaving dad because he's incapable of drawing boundaries?

No.

Would you tell the kids that mom lost all the baby weight and got hot and suddenly wanted to be single again so left dad?

No.

Because these are dynamics between mom and dad, and they don't owe the kids that. You owe them love and a commitment to keep their lives as stable as possible. If you make your kids an active player in an adult relationship you are doing wrong by them. If you are putting them in a position to enact consequences for a parent based on the divorce you are doing wrong by them.

Of course there are scenarios where kids are going to learn the truth, and no one should lie to a kid asking a direct question, but kids should be protected and they should feel like both their parents love them and have a handle on the situation at hand. If you're exposing them to uncertainty and stress when you can avoid it, you're doing wrong by them.

And so, OF COURSE, the cheater has done wrong by them by exposing them to uncertainty and stress. But that does not give the other parent some free pass to do it too.

All these scenarios are not as much outrageous and hurtful for anyone in the family as cheating. Dont forget that cheaters always try to shift the blame to innocent spouse. My exH was trying to make it look like I was the whole source of the trouble (constantly making fun of me in front of the son, humiliating me, critiquing until the affair was discovered) . He made my life a living hell and really made be believe I needed anti-depressants, going crazy, always guilty for tiniest missteps.
When the affair was discovered he lied that "it was his colleague", that it's in fact me who wants to break the family, I was crazy, violent and similar BS. It took court discovery and a legal battle to return my good name for my child.
Even after the divorce he continues poisoning my life bad mouthing me with former joint friends

You're making it about you, and it isn't like you and your emotional reaction are unimportant but for THIS question about involving kids it isn't relevant. Find a way to get justice for yourself against the spouse without involving your kids. Even if a parent is a drug addict basically everyone agrees that if they're still trying to have a positive relationship with the kid that is a worthwhile thing. Kids should be encouraged to have good relationships with both parents, no matter what their flaws, because they can't pick new parents and because abandonment is VERY traumatic for kids, no matter the circumstances or the quality of people involved.

Your exH may have cheated on you, but from what you say, the worse offense was the emotional abuse. The cheating isn't what made your spouse a terrible person, it was a symptom of his being generally awful. If he treats your child like this than your child will have to come to the same realizations you did about their dad. And it will be painful for them too. But it should come from your CHILD'S experiences with them, not vicariously through yours. That is their journey to take.

My son is currently experiencing the same emotional abuse that I was experiencing when he stays overnights there: control and blackmailing with money, abandonment alone at home (even at night), limiting socialization. It got to the point when my son told that he had no respect to dad but he still goes there as otherwise dad threatens not to pay for his college living expenses (which is in marital settlement agreement).
For my son knowing about the cheating and the person my exH cheated on also allowed to tell father not to BRING this person anywhere near to him or under the same roof, or the son would leave. If he didn't know, then dad would have introduced a "girlfriend", such a nice and kind lady ! I didn't not and won't keep her identity secret from my adolescent son! What the f...k? I am not discussing her sex life with my exH but the idea that she's the skunk who was putting out in hotels did get the message across that she's not the person my son wants to live with under the same roof. This is priceless.
Male cheaters are rarely good parents, particular if they were absent parents during marriage

Sounds like your son has a pretty tough road, I feel sorry for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they ask directly about affairs, don’t lie. But otherwise no need to tell. Marriages are complicated and the cheating is usually not the first step to the end. If they aren’t asking, don’t dump it all on them.

I agree with this, but especially that cheating is usually one of several bad acts leading up to divorce and usually both sides bear some blame for the divorce. I don't get why people are so focused on cheating. Why not focus on the neglect they lead up to it?

Because then you make the “victim” also a perpetrator and that goes against the narrative on this thread.

I hate the narrative that both people always bear responsibility for the divorce, or that if a cheater cheats the victim spouse must have contributed to an environment that caused the cheating spouse to cheat.

That is not the case in all marriages - certainly not the case in mine. I am a pleasant person who supported my DH’s professional and personal goals - in both word and deed. We had sex multiple times a week - at his initiation (and mine). I can’t ever remember saying no to sex. I kept myself up physically. I had my own career goals but also took on a majority of the parenting (which facilitated his career goals.

And yet, he still cheated - with many, many women. And when confronted, he begged to stay in our marriage, continued to initiate sex with me, etc. To maintain that, he told me enormous, detailed, long-running lies so that he could keep cheating. If I was to blame, why not just end the marriage when confronted? I offered him reasonable terms - he would have lost nothing financially and had the amount of custody he wanted. Or why not communicate what I was doing wrong? Or even that there was nothing wrong with me and that he just wanted a divorce?

Honestly, there was nothing I did or didn’t do to cause his behavior. Abusers are abusers. He wanted sex from me and so he did whatever he could to maintain that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they ask directly about affairs, don’t lie. But otherwise no need to tell. Marriages are complicated and the cheating is usually not the first step to the end. If they aren’t asking, don’t dump it all on them.

I agree with this, but especially that cheating is usually one of several bad acts leading up to divorce and usually both sides bear some blame for the divorce. I don't get why people are so focused on cheating. Why not focus on the neglect they lead up to it?

Because then you make the “victim” also a perpetrator and that goes against the narrative on this thread.

I hate the narrative that both people always bear responsibility for the divorce, or that if a cheater cheats the victim spouse must have contributed to an environment that caused the cheating spouse to cheat.

That is not the case in all marriages - certainly not the case in mine. I am a pleasant person who supported my DH’s professional and personal goals - in both word and deed. We had sex multiple times a week - at his initiation (and mine). I can’t ever remember saying no to sex. I kept myself up physically. I had my own career goals but also took on a majority of the parenting (which facilitated his career goals.

And yet, he still cheated - with many, many women. And when confronted, he begged to stay in our marriage, continued to initiate sex with me, etc. To maintain that, he told me enormous, detailed, long-running lies so that he could keep cheating. If I was to blame, why not just end the marriage when confronted? I offered him reasonable terms - he would have lost nothing financially and had the amount of custody he wanted. Or why not communicate what I was doing wrong? Or even that there was nothing wrong with me and that he just wanted a divorce?

Honestly, there was nothing I did or didn’t do to cause his behavior. Abusers are abusers. He wanted sex from me and so he did whatever he could to maintain that.

The sane people believe you. It’s really just the delusional posters on this thread who would claim you aren’t telling the truth here and there is some “both sides” thing going on, and it’s because they are invested in their own delusions.

I’m sorry you went through that.

[Anonymous]

It feels to me almost as universal that cheaters are reprehensible jerks as cheated on people are bitter people who want people involved in their own war.

Of course there are exceptions to both and the cheated ons feel like they are entitled to their bad behavior, but I think what they have in common is no self awareness as to how they’re hurting their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster whose DH learned about his father’s affair from a middle school bully in the middle of the cafeteria. I have a question for those of you who believe in not telling kids: do you think how he learned (which was painful and traumatic) is preferable to a quiet conversation with a loving parent?? I cannot understand that world view whatsoever. It seems phenomenally cruel.

The pp who did it at the psychologist did the right thing.

Loving parent or not, it's difficult to have a "quiet' conversation when you are angry, hurt , betrayed and bitter( and rightfully so if your spouse cheated on you and destroyed your mutual vision for the family).

And people really overlook the selfishness of cheaters. While the non- cheating spouse is telling the child what happened, the cheater will tell a very different story to defend themselves. If they are capable of cheating and all the lying and gaslighting thst comes with it, they are more than capable of trying to defend themselves to the children. This too will be cruel and confusing to the child.

With both parents and a professional present, an appropriate conversation is more likely to happen.

Sure, tell them with a psychologist, but you are still recommending telling them. What I am wondering about is the view of the people in favor of hiding affairs. Do those people think it is better to learn about cheating from a middle school bully or proactively from parents or in a therapist’s office? Because my impression of the “never tell” people is that they actually think it’s better for a child to learn from his middle school bully than to hear it proactively, which I find astonishing.

I think you are misunderstanding their opinion. They are not necessarily in favor of hiding affairs. They think that the chances of messing up in the process of telling the kids is much higher than the chances of the kid being messed up by finding out elsewhere.

You might disagree with their assessment, but claiming that they are in favor of hiding affairs is an misunderstanding of their position.

I don' t tell my kids about my sex life with their dad. It dies not mean that DH and I are hiding our sex lives. It's just not an appropriate conversation to have with them.

Okay, but that still doesn’t answer my question, which I think the pro-not-telling contingent is avoiding at this point: for those of you who do not think that children should be proactively told about the truth of parental affairs: do you think that it was better for my DH to learn about his father’s affair from a bully in the middle school cafeteria as opposed to proactively learning the truth from his parents or in a therapist’s office?

Because my impression from the not-telling posters is that hiding the affair — and I’m really not sure what else it is if you are not telling the kids what happened — is more important than protecting the kids from learning about the truth of the affair in ways like my DH did. I find that viewpoint unfathomable. I cannot imagine, seeing the fallout my DH went through, leaving a child unprotected that way. It is incomprehensible to me.

I have specifically said if you feel like there is a more than likely scenario where a kid will be told in an environment like school (because of the players involved or the scope of people in the middle of the conflict) then you should find a healthy and safe way to proactively tell them, with the help of a therapist and if possible the cheating spouse telling them not the other spouse because then it becomes about the cheating spouse confessing to the kid what they did and it is between the two of them. It doesn't place the kid in a position of choosing sides in a conflict, it becomes a conflict between the kid and the cheating spouse directly. But if the middle school bully knows then one or both parents are running their mouths, and THAT is not what any of us are suggesting. Don't tell your kid but do spread it all over town is not what anyone is advocating. The parents know if it is OUT THERE or not, or they should.

But I would also challenge you and your DH to think more critically about what happened to him. Because what most people are saying is that you should tell your kids what they need to know in a healthy way that is focused on THEIR continuing to believe that their life is stable, that their parents love them, that they know what to expect etc. I think situations like your DH it is likely not THAT but parents failing on these other marks and then the finding out in a bad way is just a symptom of other bad things happening.

So like, keeping it from a kid, then having mom talk about it all over town until everyone knows, then continuing not to tell the kid knowing they will be humiliated, and then not admitting it when they are humiliated and ask about it. The crime there was not neglecting to proactively tell the kid on day 1. The crime there is not assessing the kid's experience of the situation, not keeping it within an appropriate circle, not understanding when it escaped that circle, not then proactively telling the kid to protect them from that.

You are making it all about the first decision when in reality it is about a LOT of bad decisions, all of which point to bad parenting.

Sure, I’m not going to disagree that there was a full cluster of bad parenting from my cheating FIL (not from my MIL). Among other bad decisions, he asked my MIL not to tell the kids (using the reasoning the don’t-tell people here have promoted) and she agreed, which she of course deeply regretted after my poor DH came home from that day in the cafeteria. My DH was (as a teen) angry with her for not telling him the truth, and it took years for him to realize the awful position her DH had put her in. She thought she was doing the right thing and didn’t know that FIL had been open about the affair in their social circles.

And really, that’s the thing I don’t get here. You seem to think that cheaters are sober, good decision-makers who make good parenting decisions for the benefit of their kids. That really doesn’t track at all with my experience. In my experience, I’ve yet to see a cheater who put their kids first. And the kids know it. They know their mom or dad doesn’t really care about them. Certainly my DH knew that. And so I’m extremely skeptical that cheating parents can somehow cheat yet also be a caring advocate for their kids and be able to soberly assess whether their kids will learn about the truth of the affair in situations like the one my DH endured. I just don’t see cheaters suddenly becoming the kind of parent who care about protecting their kids from harm, when there is concrete evidence that they are pretty delusional. Maybe there are cheaters out there that can soberly assess whether their kids are more likely to be hurt by being told by their parents or not, but when I look around at the cheating parents I’ve known, they are pretty universally incapable of that level of self-reflection.

+1,000

No matter what their social media account portrays #momoftheyear. The reality is these people ditch their kids and arrange for ways to ditch them just to get some D. The mom that would arrange college visits so she could get her kids and husband out of the house. She did not attend most of their sports events for the same reason. Any way she could figure out a way to get rid of her husband/kids...it was game on at the expense of any time with them.

Cheaters only care about themselves. They are all supremely self-centered and selfish and will put any kind of mental spin on it to justify to convince themselves they aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you tell your kids the intimate details of a marriage that fell apart over 5 years because dad didn't do enough around the house and mom had to pick up the pieces which caused her to resent him and then stop having sex with him and then they fought a lot and then they didn't love each other anymore?

No.

Would you tell your kids if Mommy wracked up 20k in debt in credit cards due to a compulsive shopping addiction and Dad discovered it and now the family is in financial crisis and mom and dad are divorcing?

No.

Would you tell the kids that grandma poisoned mom and dad's relationship by constantly nagging and interfering and now we hate each other and mom literally cannot be in a room with her mother in law ever again so is leaving dad because he's incapable of drawing boundaries?

No.

Would you tell the kids that mom lost all the baby weight and got hot and suddenly wanted to be single again so left dad?

No.

Because these are dynamics between mom and dad, and they don't owe the kids that. You owe them love and a commitment to keep their lives as stable as possible. If you make your kids an active player in an adult relationship you are doing wrong by them. If you are putting them in a position to enact consequences for a parent based on the divorce you are doing wrong by them.

Of course there are scenarios where kids are going to learn the truth, and no one should lie to a kid asking a direct question, but kids should be protected and they should feel like both their parents love them and have a handle on the situation at hand. If you're exposing them to uncertainty and stress when you can avoid it, you're doing wrong by them.

And so, OF COURSE, the cheater has done wrong by them by exposing them to uncertainty and stress. But that does not give the other parent some free pass to do it too.

All these scenarios are not as much outrageous and hurtful for anyone in the family as cheating. Dont forget that cheaters always try to shift the blame to innocent spouse. My exH was trying to make it look like I was the whole source of the trouble (constantly making fun of me in front of the son, humiliating me, critiquing until the affair was discovered) . He made my life a living hell and really made be believe I needed anti-depressants, going crazy, always guilty for tiniest missteps.
When the affair was discovered he lied that "it was his colleague", that it's in fact me who wants to break the family, I was crazy, violent and similar BS. It took court discovery and a legal battle to return my good name for my child.
Even after the divorce he continues poisoning my life bad mouthing me with former joint friends

You're making it about you, and it isn't like you and your emotional reaction are unimportant but for THIS question about involving kids it isn't relevant. Find a way to get justice for yourself against the spouse without involving your kids. Even if a parent is a drug addict basically everyone agrees that if they're still trying to have a positive relationship with the kid that is a worthwhile thing. Kids should be encouraged to have good relationships with both parents, no matter what their flaws, because they can't pick new parents and because abandonment is VERY traumatic for kids, no matter the circumstances or the quality of people involved.

Your exH may have cheated on you, but from what you say, the worse offense was the emotional abuse. The cheating isn't what made your spouse a terrible person, it was a symptom of his being generally awful. If he treats your child like this than your child will have to come to the same realizations you did about their dad. And it will be painful for them too. But it should come from your CHILD'S experiences with them, not vicariously through yours. That is their journey to take.

My son is currently experiencing the same emotional abuse that I was experiencing when he stays overnights there: control and blackmailing with money, abandonment alone at home (even at night), limiting socialization. It got to the point when my son told that he had no respect to dad but he still goes there as otherwise dad threatens not to pay for his college living expenses (which is in marital settlement agreement).
For my son knowing about the cheating and the person my exH cheated on also allowed to tell father not to BRING this person anywhere near to him or under the same roof, or the son would leave. If he didn't know, then dad would have introduced a "girlfriend", such a nice and kind lady ! I didn't not and won't keep her identity secret from my adolescent son! What the f...k? I am not discussing her sex life with my exH but the idea that she's the skunk who was putting out in hotels did get the message across that she's not the person my son wants to live with under the same roof. This is priceless.
Male cheaters are rarely good parents, particular if they were absent parents during marriage

Ummm, neither are female cheaters.

[Anonymous]

The cheater does impact the whole family, including the kids. It’s denial to imply it doesn’t. The kids are robbed from having an intact family, the financial security of two parents, and they literally lose half their time with each parent. They lose half the holidays with each parent. They are thrust into a life where they will ALWAYS have to juggle visits, life events, invitations, etc.

It’s even worse in the cases where the cheater has a second family with their affair partner. The children interpret this as an abandonment of their first family.

In a perfect leave-it-to-beaver family maybe everyone can keep up their stepford wife smiles and mom and dad can be best friends and continue co parenting as if one didn’t just put the other through such a traumatic experience that they are literally experiencing PTSD. But it’s not realistic. If you damage someone like that, it’s going to have ripple effects. It always does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they ask directly about affairs, don’t lie. But otherwise no need to tell. Marriages are complicated and the cheating is usually not the first step to the end. If they aren’t asking, don’t dump it all on them.

I agree with this, but especially that cheating is usually one of several bad acts leading up to divorce and usually both sides bear some blame for the divorce. I don't get why people are so focused on cheating. Why not focus on the neglect they lead up to it?

Because then you make the “victim” also a perpetrator and that goes against the narrative on this thread.

I hate the narrative that both people always bear responsibility for the divorce, or that if a cheater cheats the victim spouse must have contributed to an environment that caused the cheating spouse to cheat.

That is not the case in all marriages - certainly not the case in mine. I am a pleasant person who supported my DH’s professional and personal goals - in both word and deed. We had sex multiple times a week - at his initiation (and mine). I can’t ever remember saying no to sex. I kept myself up physically. I had my own career goals but also took on a majority of the parenting (which facilitated his career goals.

And yet, he still cheated - with many, many women. And when confronted, he begged to stay in our marriage, continued to initiate sex with me, etc. To maintain that, he told me enormous, detailed, long-running lies so that he could keep cheating. If I was to blame, why not just end the marriage when confronted? I offered him reasonable terms - he would have lost nothing financially and had the amount of custody he wanted. Or why not communicate what I was doing wrong? Or even that there was nothing wrong with me and that he just wanted a divorce?

Honestly, there was nothing I did or didn’t do to cause his behavior. Abusers are abusers. He wanted sex from me and so he did whatever he could to maintain that.

The sane people believe you. It’s really just the delusional posters on this thread who would claim you aren’t telling the truth here and there is some “both sides” thing going on, and it’s because they are invested in their own delusions.

I’m sorry you went through that.

+1,000

This is the story of just about every woman friend I had who went through this. The women cheaters on this forum think the men think like them when cheating, when most men are in it just for the variety bang and to escape themselves. They have their cake and eat it too and will go at all expenses to hide it from their spouse and everyone else. They aren't looking for exit affairs. They aren't whining their wives won't have sex with them (unless it's to get some ow to bang them). It's very emotionally abusive for the women who are constantly pressed for sex and told they are the 'love of his life'.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, it’s only on DCUM where I see this bizarre fantasy of the cheater who is otherwise a great parent and who puts kids first (except for the cheating). In reality, both male and female cheaters are crappy parents, too. It goes with the personality type. I’m convinced this DCUM fantasy exists because self-delusional posters want to believe the fantasy. Obviously anyone with any grounding in reality sees it all for the fantasy it is. Real life just isn’t like that.

[Anonymous]

It is amazing when many posters here are telling you their own personal experiences with these things in childhood and all of you are STILL so focused on how horrible the cheater is that you are denying the real life experiences of the kids here who's opinions don't align with your self image. And so you think we've been brainwashed or something.

This is how your kids feel too I imagine. Real life is what you make it into, and real humans are flawed and complex and not universally good or bad.