Don't fly United

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why the passenger thought he was so important the IDB rules didn't apply to him. I know he claimed to be a doctor, but...I just don't understand it. Airlines don't deny boarding to people based on the important of their jobs. Is there something else going on here?

I don't care if he were a welfare cheat. This shouldn't happen to anybody.

Right. But why didn't he just get off the plane? I fly 100K+ miles a year and I just don't understand this situation. That's where everything went wrong, so I'm not sure why everyone's harping on United.

(And for the record, I DESPISE United and haven't flown them in 20 years. But I don't understand the uproar.)

Are you a flight attendent? did you fly those miles as an employee of united (or some similar airline)?

would you really just obediently get off the flight? would you just say "oh well! I didn't really need to go to that job interview! I'm sure something else will come up" or "I didn't really want to go to my father's funeral?" Or did you say "good thing I gave up all my vacation so I can fly one day early just in case this happens?"

I just said I haven't flown United in 20 years. I fly DL and AA, not as an employee.

And yes, I have obediently gotten off flights after being bumped. Only twice, but it's happened.

Well, then you are a sheep. I hope I'd do what that man did.

No, I'm not a sheep. I simply understand the conditions of carriage when I buy an airline ticket. It's really not complicated.

Then United needs to print in bold on its tickets (and as a condition of purchase of that ticket) that at any time before the flight takes off, united has the right to remove you from the aircraft for any reason whatsoever without compensation.

This would not be enough. They should try to fix this in a reasonable way. A reasonable way would be to offer $2000 or even more so that some retired people or some person with a very flexible job took them up on it. If a 70 year old man wants to go home, they should not make him spend an entire day in an airport due to their lack of planning.

[Anonymous]

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Which perhaps you could admit is different than having multiple patients expecting to see you and depending on you for their health needs. When I've worked in an office, it was usually not a big deal if I missed one random day. When I worked as a technical trainer, I had people whose companies had pause literally thousands of dollars to hear my presentations. I would not have accepted being bumped if it meant missing a day of training clients. Much like the doctor who refused to accept being bumped when he had people counting on his presence the next day. It's great that your life is flexible enough that being delayed 24 hours does not create a hardship for others, but that is not the case for every traveler.

Then fly the day before, if it's that important you be there as planned. What if there was bad weather in Chicago or Louisville? The doctor wouldn't make it in time to see his patients either. That happened in Atlanta last week -- 3,000 flights cancelled due to thuderstorms. In fact, you're a lot more likely to not arrive on time due to weather, mechanical issues, late arrival of incoming aircraft than being kicked off an overbooked flight.

Who can throw away a whole day of work like that?? It is ridiculous. For a storm, there is no good way to fix it. For this, there is. Offer more money. $2000 now and then is nothing to an airline.

[Anonymous]

I loved continental. They need to bring that leadership bsck. When united goes bust we will all pay more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said they would willingly get off - would you do so if there were no compensation? Because $800 was worthless to the plane full of passengers who refused it.

To me that is a main issue. Had they offered fair compensation, someone would have taken it. Clearly $800 is not fair on a Sunday to a location with infrequent service.

Their limit should have been the cost associated with the crew not getting there. Way more than $800.

The crew was commuting to work. They are not flying for united (not deadheading). They basically live in one city and fly on personal to get to the city they are assigned. I worked for an airline and saw this "commuting" all the time. The airport staff would check in the flight attendants who CHOSE to live in one city to get to where they were assigned. It was like the mafia - I tried flying standby as personal (same category as they were) but they clogged up the checki in so it was like 10 flight attendants commuting to work in personal passes and then everyone else on personal passes were screwed. Looks like united is even worse..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why the passenger thought he was so important the IDB rules didn't apply to him. I know he claimed to be a doctor, but...I just don't understand it. Airlines don't deny boarding to people based on the important of their jobs. Is there something else going on here?

I don't care if he were a welfare cheat. This shouldn't happen to anybody.

Right. But why didn't he just get off the plane? I fly 100K+ miles a year and I just don't understand this situation. That's where everything went wrong, so I'm not sure why everyone's harping on United.

(And for the record, I DESPISE United and haven't flown them in 20 years. But I don't understand the uproar.)

Are you a flight attendent? did you fly those miles as an employee of united (or some similar airline)?

would you really just obediently get off the flight? would you just say "oh well! I didn't really need to go to that job interview! I'm sure something else will come up" or "I didn't really want to go to my father's funeral?" Or did you say "good thing I gave up all my vacation so I can fly one day early just in case this happens?"

I just said I haven't flown United in 20 years. I fly DL and AA, not as an employee.

And yes, I have obediently gotten off flights after being bumped. Only twice, but it's happened.

What did you family say when you were late getting home? Your boss say when you showed up late to the place you were flying to? or are you infinitely wealthy, fly for fun, and just don't have schedule constraints?

I work for Boeing. My bosses are infinitely aware of how the real world works. As is my family.

What does working for Boeing have to do with anything? If you have a dying relative and can't get to them in timely manner it's fine because you work for Boeing?

Wow, you work at Boeing (which my autocorrect wants to change to boring). Big fing deal. Are you also an Executive? who cares!!!

[Anonymous]

United is an awful airline. Just awful.

[Anonymous]

There is zero excuse for the treatment this man received. Zero.

[Anonymous]

We really need more regulations on airlines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We really need more regulations on airlines.

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Which perhaps you could admit is different than having multiple patients expecting to see you and depending on you for their health needs. When I've worked in an office, it was usually not a big deal if I missed one random day. When I worked as a technical trainer, I had people whose companies had pause literally thousands of dollars to hear my presentations. I would not have accepted being bumped if it meant missing a day of training clients. Much like the doctor who refused to accept being bumped when he had people counting on his presence the next day. It's great that your life is flexible enough that being delayed 24 hours does not create a hardship for others, but that is not the case for every traveler.

Then fly the day before, if it's that important you be there as planned. What if there was bad weather in Chicago or Louisville? The doctor wouldn't make it in time to see his patients either. That happened in Atlanta last week -- 3,000 flights cancelled due to thuderstorms. In fact, you're a lot more likely to not arrive on time due to weather, mechanical issues, late arrival of incoming aircraft than being kicked off an overbooked flight.

Or perhaps the airline could over enough compensation such that the Boeing employee would have taken it and considered it worth the inconvenience, and let the people who really needed to get where they were going would have been able to do so. This was a huge f-up by United, that could have been avoided with a few hundred dollars. Your customers are not your enemies. Hopefully United has learned that lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A pilot friend for United just told me that most of the flights this week are oversold, btw. It's a busy travel time.

Looking at the flight 3411 http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/10/523275494/passenger-forcibly-removed-from-united-flight-prompting-outcry it departed 2 hours late and was an Embraer 170/175 (twin-jet)

Embraer 170 seats=6 first class+16 economy plus+48 economy=70 seats
Embraer 175 seats=same as above but 6 more 1st class seats totaling 76

Delta/express jet runs even smaller planes on that route-37 seats. SW runs big planes on weekdays from Midway airport in Chicago to Louisville. We used to fly routes that required a stop and went on SW rather than others because if they had to switch out planes there was less chance of bumps. Ever go to dulles and see the United walk out planes where they can sub a turbo prop on a short route?

On some of those routes you can go jetblue from Reagan on a large jet.

[Anonymous]

Go to

www.flyersrights.org

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We really need more regulations on airlines.

I disagree. The public outcry will take care of this.

I have a hard time watching the video. When I first saw it, I thought that there had to be more to the story. I was wrong.
He was so badly treated. United was wrong. The people in Chicago who dragged this poor man off the plane were wrong.

I don’t think we need more regulations to deal with this type of situation. The public is so outraged about it, that you can bet United will change their policy. It is a PR nightmare for them, and one which will be hard for them to recover.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We really need more regulations on airlines.

Airlines should be forced to present any passenger (in such a situation) their full legal rights and legal options, in writing. And then a written warning BEFORE "pulling the trigger".

United Airlines is obviously in BIG trouble with this one.
Shame on them!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are regulations about how airlines choose who to bump, and the process (including compensation offers). My guess is United followed them. The person who was forcibly removed did not comply with a lawful order.

I don't work for United.. but I'm not sure why this passenger didn't just comply with the police asking him to leave. Does he also not pull over his car when police try to stop him?

This comparison is ridiculous. He did not commit a crime- he paid for the service. United is the one that overbooked the flight and then allowed everyone to board - the situation is their mistake and should not be remedied on the passanger's behalf.

Actually, he did commit a crime by failing to follow the orders of flight crew. Rule 21 of the Contract of Carriage. Federal law.

He also committed a crime by failing to comply with the orders of police, but that's a state law violation.

This isn't a police state. The police don't get to beat the living hell out of you for not immediately complying with an (arguably bullshit) order to leave an aircraft, something that puts no one in any sort of danger.

So if not following the law doesnt' put someone in danger, we aren't required to comply?

There are Federal regulations on how to process an IDB (Involuntary Denied Boarding). There is no indication that United did not follow them.

In any other situation, if you fail to comply with the orders of police, they will drag you away and arrest you. Why is it any different on an airplane?

The passenger is welcome to take United and the police to court on this and seek compensation, but my guess is they won't win.

It wasn't an Involuntary Denied Boarding. He had ALREADY boarded. It was an involuntary de-boarding.