Don't fly United

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing in either video appears to suggest that the man's head hitting the armrest across the aisle was an intentional act by the officers, but merely incidental to the man's removal from the seat and his subsequent toppling over across the aisle.

As has been said earlier in the thread, noncompliance with an officer's request, then order, will lead to use of force. If, in the course of a struggle against lawful use of force the resisting party sustains injuries, even serious/potentially life-threatening injuries merely incidental to the lawful use of force (such as a head incidentally hitting an armrest during the course of detainment), then that liability is on the resisting party...NOT the detaining officer in the course of his/her official duties.

It's no different than if, in the course of the use of lawful and non-lethal self-defense during a street encounter using a hand-to-hand technique, the offending party happens to be tripped over by the defending party and incidentally smacks his/her head on a curb, causing death by severe head injury...Courts (at least in the U.S.) generally hold that death or great bodily harm resulting incidentally to the use of non-lethal defensive methods against an offending party is not the liability of the defending party, as the defending party generally would not have reasonably known that the use of a defensive method established by law and precedent to be "non-lethal" would have resulted in death or great bodily harm.

I think part of what's disgusting about your defense of the airline and police actions here is that the police were acting at the behest of the airline, to protect their financial interests. This wasn't an unruly passenger who was a danger to others, this was a paying customer randomly selected for removal, because the airline refused to increase the incentive for being bumped. He was taken off to save the airline money, and the police were used to enforce United's corporate interests. That is disgusting, we should all be appalled, and their position is not defensible.

+1. PP should be ashamed.

[Anonymous]

According to the article posted the compensation cap is $1350. So United made a *choice* to move to random selection and force in order to save $550. They had $550 more dollars of negotiating space and decided to call the cops rather than use it.

Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There needs to be a boycott united campaign...they way he was moved from his seat was disgusting. Excessive force much? That officer needs to be disciplined.

Officer has been suspended. And go check out United's Facebook page. The condemnation is pretty universal. This is going to cost them. The CEO's lame apology isn't helping matters.

DP. I realize the actions were carried out by the police but I do NOT think this impn any way excuses United. They called the cops into the situation, they are responsible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First, it was $800, not $1600. And because dragging an old man out of a seat he paid for is a wholly inappropriate way to deal with the situation. They could have gone to the next person on the list, or increased the compensation until someone took it. It's never okay to beat up a passenger. I don't know why that's hard to get.

Go to the next person on the list? That will go well. That person will see if you raise a fuss, then the policy doesn't apply to you,and they will do the same, right on down the list.

Yes, clearly it's far better to beat up the first guy. That will get everyone else in line!

But.. usually passengers follow crew instructions and everything is uneventful. I've been bumped before. I didn't stage a protest. I followed the crew instructions, took my compensation, and flew the next day.

I thikn it's good they use the computer to choose who gets kicked off. This way, there's no chance of racism or playing favorites. The computer picked you, so off you go.

You must be retired or something if you don't protest when getting kicked off a flight. People who work can not afford to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why the passenger thought he was so important the IDB rules didn't apply to him. I know he claimed to be a doctor, but...I just don't understand it. Airlines don't deny boarding to people based on the important of their jobs. Is there something else going on here?

I don't care if he were a welfare cheat. This shouldn't happen to anybody.

Right. But why didn't he just get off the plane? I fly 100K+ miles a year and I just don't understand this situation. That's where everything went wrong, so I'm not sure why everyone's harping on United.

(And for the record, I DESPISE United and haven't flown them in 20 years. But I don't understand the uproar.)

Are you a flight attendent? did you fly those miles as an employee of united (or some similar airline)?

would you really just obediently get off the flight? would you just say "oh well! I didn't really need to go to that job interview! I'm sure something else will come up" or "I didn't really want to go to my father's funeral?" Or did you say "good thing I gave up all my vacation so I can fly one day early just in case this happens?"

I just said I haven't flown United in 20 years. I fly DL and AA, not as an employee.

And yes, I have obediently gotten off flights after being bumped. Only twice, but it's happened.

Well, then you are a sheep. I hope I'd do what that man did.

No, I'm not a sheep. I simply understand the conditions of carriage when I buy an airline ticket. It's really not complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why the passenger thought he was so important the IDB rules didn't apply to him. I know he claimed to be a doctor, but...I just don't understand it. Airlines don't deny boarding to people based on the important of their jobs. Is there something else going on here?

I don't care if he were a welfare cheat. This shouldn't happen to anybody.

Right. But why didn't he just get off the plane? I fly 100K+ miles a year and I just don't understand this situation. That's where everything went wrong, so I'm not sure why everyone's harping on United.

(And for the record, I DESPISE United and haven't flown them in 20 years. But I don't understand the uproar.)

Are you a flight attendent? did you fly those miles as an employee of united (or some similar airline)?

would you really just obediently get off the flight? would you just say "oh well! I didn't really need to go to that job interview! I'm sure something else will come up" or "I didn't really want to go to my father's funeral?" Or did you say "good thing I gave up all my vacation so I can fly one day early just in case this happens?"

I just said I haven't flown United in 20 years. I fly DL and AA, not as an employee.

And yes, I have obediently gotten off flights after being bumped. Only twice, but it's happened.

What did you family say when you were late getting home? Your boss say when you showed up late to the place you were flying to? or are you infinitely wealthy, fly for fun, and just don't have schedule constraints?

I work for Boeing. My bosses are infinitely aware of how the real world works. As is my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why the passenger thought he was so important the IDB rules didn't apply to him. I know he claimed to be a doctor, but...I just don't understand it. Airlines don't deny boarding to people based on the important of their jobs. Is there something else going on here?

I don't care if he were a welfare cheat. This shouldn't happen to anybody.

Right. But why didn't he just get off the plane? I fly 100K+ miles a year and I just don't understand this situation. That's where everything went wrong, so I'm not sure why everyone's harping on United.

(And for the record, I DESPISE United and haven't flown them in 20 years. But I don't understand the uproar.)

Are you a flight attendent? did you fly those miles as an employee of united (or some similar airline)?

would you really just obediently get off the flight? would you just say "oh well! I didn't really need to go to that job interview! I'm sure something else will come up" or "I didn't really want to go to my father's funeral?" Or did you say "good thing I gave up all my vacation so I can fly one day early just in case this happens?"

I just said I haven't flown United in 20 years. I fly DL and AA, not as an employee.

And yes, I have obediently gotten off flights after being bumped. Only twice, but it's happened.

What did you family say when you were late getting home? Your boss say when you showed up late to the place you were flying to? or are you infinitely wealthy, fly for fun, and just don't have schedule constraints?

I work for Boeing. My bosses are infinitely aware of how the real world works. As is my family.

Which perhaps you could admit is different than having multiple patients expecting to see you and depending on you for their health needs. When I've worked in an office, it was usually not a big deal if I missed one random day. When I worked as a technical trainer, I had people whose companies had pause literally thousands of dollars to hear my presentations. I would not have accepted being bumped if it meant missing a day of training clients. Much like the doctor who refused to accept being bumped when he had people counting on his presence the next day. It's great that your life is flexible enough that being delayed 24 hours does not create a hardship for others, but that is not the case for every traveler.

[Anonymous]

^^ obviously "pause" = "paid"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why the passenger thought he was so important the IDB rules didn't apply to him. I know he claimed to be a doctor, but...I just don't understand it. Airlines don't deny boarding to people based on the important of their jobs. Is there something else going on here?

I don't care if he were a welfare cheat. This shouldn't happen to anybody.

Right. But why didn't he just get off the plane? I fly 100K+ miles a year and I just don't understand this situation. That's where everything went wrong, so I'm not sure why everyone's harping on United.

(And for the record, I DESPISE United and haven't flown them in 20 years. But I don't understand the uproar.)

Are you a flight attendent? did you fly those miles as an employee of united (or some similar airline)?

would you really just obediently get off the flight? would you just say "oh well! I didn't really need to go to that job interview! I'm sure something else will come up" or "I didn't really want to go to my father's funeral?" Or did you say "good thing I gave up all my vacation so I can fly one day early just in case this happens?"

I just said I haven't flown United in 20 years. I fly DL and AA, not as an employee.

And yes, I have obediently gotten off flights after being bumped. Only twice, but it's happened.

What did you family say when you were late getting home? Your boss say when you showed up late to the place you were flying to? or are you infinitely wealthy, fly for fun, and just don't have schedule constraints?

I work for Boeing. My bosses are infinitely aware of how the real world works. As is my family.

What does working for Boeing have to do with anything? If you have a dying relative and can't get to them in timely manner it's fine because you work for Boeing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why the passenger thought he was so important the IDB rules didn't apply to him. I know he claimed to be a doctor, but...I just don't understand it. Airlines don't deny boarding to people based on the important of their jobs. Is there something else going on here?

I don't care if he were a welfare cheat. This shouldn't happen to anybody.

Right. But why didn't he just get off the plane? I fly 100K+ miles a year and I just don't understand this situation. That's where everything went wrong, so I'm not sure why everyone's harping on United.

(And for the record, I DESPISE United and haven't flown them in 20 years. But I don't understand the uproar.)

Are you a flight attendent? did you fly those miles as an employee of united (or some similar airline)?

would you really just obediently get off the flight? would you just say "oh well! I didn't really need to go to that job interview! I'm sure something else will come up" or "I didn't really want to go to my father's funeral?" Or did you say "good thing I gave up all my vacation so I can fly one day early just in case this happens?"

I just said I haven't flown United in 20 years. I fly DL and AA, not as an employee.

And yes, I have obediently gotten off flights after being bumped. Only twice, but it's happened.

Well, then you are a sheep. I hope I'd do what that man did.

No, I'm not a sheep. I simply understand the conditions of carriage when I buy an airline ticket. It's really not complicated.

Then United needs to print in bold on its tickets (and as a condition of purchase of that ticket) that at any time before the flight takes off, united has the right to remove you from the aircraft for any reason whatsoever without compensation.

[Anonymous]

United is done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:United is done.

Agreed. This will be crippling if not finish them off.

[Anonymous]

To the poster who said they would willingly get off - would you do so if there were no compensation? Because $800 was worthless to the plane full of passengers who refused it.

To me that is a main issue. Had they offered fair compensation, someone would have taken it. Clearly $800 is not fair on a Sunday to a location with infrequent service.

Their limit should have been the cost associated with the crew not getting there. Way more than $800.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why the passenger thought he was so important the IDB rules didn't apply to him. I know he claimed to be a doctor, but...I just don't understand it. Airlines don't deny boarding to people based on the important of their jobs. Is there something else going on here?

I don't care if he were a welfare cheat. This shouldn't happen to anybody.

Right. But why didn't he just get off the plane? I fly 100K+ miles a year and I just don't understand this situation. That's where everything went wrong, so I'm not sure why everyone's harping on United.

(And for the record, I DESPISE United and haven't flown them in 20 years. But I don't understand the uproar.)

Are you a flight attendent? did you fly those miles as an employee of united (or some similar airline)?

would you really just obediently get off the flight? would you just say "oh well! I didn't really need to go to that job interview! I'm sure something else will come up" or "I didn't really want to go to my father's funeral?" Or did you say "good thing I gave up all my vacation so I can fly one day early just in case this happens?"

I just said I haven't flown United in 20 years. I fly DL and AA, not as an employee.

And yes, I have obediently gotten off flights after being bumped. Only twice, but it's happened.

What did you family say when you were late getting home? Your boss say when you showed up late to the place you were flying to? or are you infinitely wealthy, fly for fun, and just don't have schedule constraints?

I work for Boeing. My bosses are infinitely aware of how the real world works. As is my family.

I teach at a University. If I am delayed, my students do not get a refund. There is no such thing as a substitute teacher at my level. I would be very angry if I had paid for a ticket, checked in on time, boarded the plane, and then got kicked off. I understand being delayed for a storm. I understand being delayed for 9/11. For this? It is ridiculous. They should raise the compensation until somebody retired or somebody with a job like yours takes them up on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Which perhaps you could admit is different than having multiple patients expecting to see you and depending on you for their health needs. When I've worked in an office, it was usually not a big deal if I missed one random day. When I worked as a technical trainer, I had people whose companies had pause literally thousands of dollars to hear my presentations. I would not have accepted being bumped if it meant missing a day of training clients. Much like the doctor who refused to accept being bumped when he had people counting on his presence the next day. It's great that your life is flexible enough that being delayed 24 hours does not create a hardship for others, but that is not the case for every traveler.

Then fly the day before, if it's that important you be there as planned. What if there was bad weather in Chicago or Louisville? The doctor wouldn't make it in time to see his patients either. That happened in Atlanta last week -- 3,000 flights cancelled due to thuderstorms. In fact, you're a lot more likely to not arrive on time due to weather, mechanical issues, late arrival of incoming aircraft than being kicked off an overbooked flight.