To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

Wow. You’re a true iconoclast. The Democrats don’t deserve to have someone as real as you are. We should all look to you for how to structure a party for positive change.

I’m seeing unkempt grey hair, stale patchouli funk and a voter who long ago abandoned the Democratic Party which could have made a positive change in the world. They just didn’t have the purity you demanded and so you decided to hell with the world, to hell with women and rape victims and a world slowly burning… the only sane option wasn’t pure enough.

The worst version of the last paragraph never will approach the awfulness of recent Democratic leaders, especially Genocide Joe. Smart, decent people focus on what matters.

Live streamed, industrialized, large scale killing of children is being normalized and condoned. A desensitization of the populace to barbaric violence by morally bankrupt, corrupt leaders.

DP.

You mean the large-scale killing of children by Hamas?

If so, I agree that the left's response has been shocking.

No worries, what you normalize now with flippant one-liners, will impact you down the line. That's how a descent into darkness works.

I agree.

So, physician...

heal thyself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

LOL. The democratic party will be fine. It's the raped 10 year olds who are not. Go tell them you taught rich dem politicians a lesson and that's why it's ok they have to carry their rapist's child.

The raped ten year olds Biden couldn’t bring himself to even mention in his SOTUS? Those are the ones you want me to apologize to?

I will tell them I couldn’t vote for someone who paid for bombs to be dropped on other American children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

Do you know any unskilled workers? They are making more than $15 per hour now, more like $18+, and since they are all making that now, it is no longer enough for them to live comfortably on. See reddit, which has different demographic than this site for proof, lots of people who no education who go from job to job looking for a dollar or two more in salary, and they are never satisfied.

Exactly. My illegal immigrwnt house cleaner gets 200 for 5-6 hours of cleaning my house. Do the math… hint… it’s more than 15 bucks an hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

LOL. The democratic party will be fine. It's the raped 10 year olds who are not. Go tell them you taught rich dem politicians a lesson and that's why it's ok they have to carry their rapist's child.

Do you mean the 10 year old who was raped by the illegal immigrant who Democrats let in? Of course democratic party will be fine, the raped child is just an unintended consequence of their immigration policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

Do you know any unskilled workers? They are making more than $15 per hour now, more like $18+, and since they are all making that now, it is no longer enough for them to live comfortably on. See reddit, which has different demographic than this site for proof, lots of people who no education who go from job to job looking for a dollar or two more in salary, and they are never satisfied.

Exactly. My illegal immigrwnt house cleaner gets 200 for 5-6 hours of cleaning my house. Do the math… hint… it’s more than 15 bucks an hour.

My contractor from Ukraine who came here on parole makes $30/hour and he is booked to work 10/day 7/days a week.

[Anonymous]

The only hope is Biden gets impeached and removed from office. I do not see any other way dems come back from Biden/Netanyahu pack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only hope is Biden gets impeached and removed from office. I do not see any other way dems come back from Biden/Netanyahu pack.

So you want Don the con to take us out of NATO and have nuclear codes???

You are stupid.

The Republican Party no longer believes in the constitution who votes for that? Omg only idiots

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

LOL. The democratic party will be fine. It's the raped 10 year olds who are not. Go tell them you taught rich dem politicians a lesson and that's why it's ok they have to carry their rapist's child.

Do you mean the 10 year old who was raped by the illegal immigrant who Democrats let in? Of course democratic party will be fine, the raped child is just an unintended consequence of their immigration policy.

I’m sorry do you not read the newspaper. Do you ever read?

Number one place for kids to be sexually abused Church! Every week some pastors or ministers or how about those priests abuse children. Do you not live in reality? Pick up a paper for gods sake.

And my dear just this week another Republican flew to Prague to rape a minor child.

I hope to god you have no kids.

Facts are facts you don’t live in reality!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

PP here.

It's funny you bring up the minimum wage example.

You're aware that it passed in FL, right?

I had mixed feelings about it but ultimately voted for it. So perhaps we have a bit more common ground that you think?

I will say that your post also illustrates my main objection to the far left: the unwillingness to accept incremental progress or compromise.

It's also worth considering whether "a Gileadean corporate hellscape" is really better than incremental and uneven progress here and there.

DP. It’s not. That PP is just frustrated that she isn’t getting everything she wants immediately and sooner. She’d rather cut everyone loose to fend for themselves than work with - gasp - the Democrats. Selfish, selfish, selfish. Increments worked until the purists had to wrench it all.

Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We got 9/11, the Patriot Act, Homeland Security and all the spying, we got nothing accomplished on global warming, we got a worldwide pandemic, women lost citizenship rights and the fundamentalists are closer than ever to staging a total destruction of our liberal democracy, but you know what? Better that we just burn it all down and let the fascist GOP have their way, I guess, according to that walking sociopathic disorder.

Sounds like you and the people you loyally fall into line behind haven’t spent much time examining your own world. Do that first and then come back and then we won’t roll our eyes at your garbage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

Tell me when the Democrats admitted their mistakes regarding:
-financial regulation or ‘Rubinomics’
-not prosecuting white collar crime (especially the 2008 financial crisis)
-supporting endless wars, especially in MENA
-de-industrializing trade agreements
-supporting W on his ridiculous GWOT policies and the surveillance state

Remember, this is just a start. Only the most foolish of partisans think the Democrats have admitted their mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

HAHA. The Fire Alarm Guy aka., Bowman lied about pulling the alarm and then called Republicans Nazis. Talk about not aging well. Geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes it is.

Wow.

You are willing to close the door on living in a democracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

Do you know any unskilled workers? They are making more than $15 per hour now, more like $18+, and since they are all making that now, it is no longer enough for them to live comfortably on. See reddit, which has different demographic than this site for proof, lots of people who no education who go from job to job looking for a dollar or two more in salary, and they are never satisfied.

Exactly. My illegal immigrwnt house cleaner gets 200 for 5-6 hours of cleaning my house. Do the math… hint… it’s more than 15 bucks an hour.

My contractor from Ukraine who came here on parole makes $30/hour and he is booked to work 10/day 7/days a week.

DP.
Offtopic but they are much better than the ones from other parts of the world who used to have a big share of the market; glad there’s quality labor available now!
Also great nail techs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

He does not care about democratic issues. It is more important not to upset the apple cart. No reform of SCOTUS, no attempt to do anything on abortion, reach across the aisle while selling out your base, filibuster is great, etc, etc. Biden was a compromise pick by the out of touch geriatric party leaders to beat Trump. They like him because he is the status quo pick.

Trump’s mental state is declining quickly. He will not be able to run for office…as in unable to physically do it. Biden is done. He will not be able to recover from his role in killing all these innocent Palestinians.