To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

PP here.

It's funny you bring up the minimum wage example.

You're aware that it passed in FL, right?

I had mixed feelings about it but ultimately voted for it. So perhaps we have a bit more common ground that you think?

I will say that your post also illustrates my main objection to the far left: the unwillingness to accept incremental progress or compromise.

It's also worth considering whether "a Gileadean corporate hellscape" is really better than incremental and uneven progress here and there.

I dont believe incrementalism works. You can't build over a bad foundation. We all have to decide this isn't working, let's try something new. The dems in this country want to keep throwing energy at fixing broken systems that were built for different times, different populations, different attitudes, and different societal needs.

Incrementalism has worked.

Take a look at the history of the 20th century.

From labor laws to life expectancy to civil rights, it's a remarkable story of progress and improvement for Americans of all backgrounds.

And almost all of that progress was based on the existing foundation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

It’s incredibly sad to an adult who has such a short memory that she’s just willing to burn it all down. Thanks for the great work, Susan Sarandon. You might not have noticed but it’s not going to get burnt down tidily and rebuilt to your specification. People are going to get badly hurt and you’re okay with that. You seem to welcome that.

You sound ridiculously privileged and self involved to the point that no one can reason with you.

[Anonymous]

I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

LOL. The democratic party will be fine. It's the raped 10 year olds who are not. Go tell them you taught rich dem politicians a lesson and that's why it's ok they have to carry their rapist's child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

PP here.

It's funny you bring up the minimum wage example.

You're aware that it passed in FL, right?

I had mixed feelings about it but ultimately voted for it. So perhaps we have a bit more common ground that you think?

I will say that your post also illustrates my main objection to the far left: the unwillingness to accept incremental progress or compromise.

It's also worth considering whether "a Gileadean corporate hellscape" is really better than incremental and uneven progress here and there.

DP. It’s not. That PP is just frustrated that she isn’t getting everything she wants immediately and sooner. She’d rather cut everyone loose to fend for themselves than work with - gasp - the Democrats. Selfish, selfish, selfish. Increments worked until the purists had to wrench it all.

Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We got 9/11, the Patriot Act, Homeland Security and all the spying, we got nothing accomplished on global warming, we got a worldwide pandemic, women lost citizenship rights and the fundamentalists are closer than ever to staging a total destruction of our liberal democracy, but you know what? Better that we just burn it all down and let the fascist GOP have their way, I guess, according to that walking sociopathic disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

Wow. You’re a true iconoclast. The Democrats don’t deserve to have someone as real as you are. We should all look to you for how to structure a party for positive change.

I’m seeing unkempt grey hair, stale patchouli funk and a voter who long ago abandoned the Democratic Party which could have made a positive change in the world. They just didn’t have the purity you demanded and so you decided to hell with the world, to hell with women and rape victims and a world slowly burning… the only sane option wasn’t pure enough.

The worst version of the last paragraph never will approach the awfulness of recent Democratic leaders, especially Genocide Joe. Smart, decent people focus on what matters.

Live streamed, industrialized, large scale killing of children is being normalized and condoned. A desensitization of the populace to barbaric violence by morally bankrupt, corrupt leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

In its grave?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

Wow. You’re a true iconoclast. The Democrats don’t deserve to have someone as real as you are. We should all look to you for how to structure a party for positive change.

I’m seeing unkempt grey hair, stale patchouli funk and a voter who long ago abandoned the Democratic Party which could have made a positive change in the world. They just didn’t have the purity you demanded and so you decided to hell with the world, to hell with women and rape victims and a world slowly burning… the only sane option wasn’t pure enough.

The worst version of the last paragraph never will approach the awfulness of recent Democratic leaders, especially Genocide Joe. Smart, decent people focus on what matters.

Live streamed, industrialized, large scale killing of children is being normalized and condoned. A desensitization of the populace to barbaric violence by morally bankrupt, corrupt leaders.

DP.

You mean the large-scale killing of children by Hamas?

If so, I agree that the left's response has been shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

This.

Yes, Biden is old. He is otherwise a decent human who has overseen tremendous economic growth and a stablization of NATO. It isn't his fault that Iran/Russia/Hamas have decided to spark global tensions at this time, but many countries are looking at his wisdom and demeanor as a beacon to move forward.

Of course there will be mistakes and mis-steps. Name an Administration that hasn't had them.

But nothing compares to the absolute havoc and craven power grab by what is left of the GOP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

Wow. You’re a true iconoclast. The Democrats don’t deserve to have someone as real as you are. We should all look to you for how to structure a party for positive change.

I’m seeing unkempt grey hair, stale patchouli funk and a voter who long ago abandoned the Democratic Party which could have made a positive change in the world. They just didn’t have the purity you demanded and so you decided to hell with the world, to hell with women and rape victims and a world slowly burning… the only sane option wasn’t pure enough.

The worst version of the last paragraph never will approach the awfulness of recent Democratic leaders, especially Genocide Joe. Smart, decent people focus on what matters.

Live streamed, industrialized, large scale killing of children is being normalized and condoned. A desensitization of the populace to barbaric violence by morally bankrupt, corrupt leaders.

DP.

You mean the large-scale killing of children by Hamas?

If so, I agree that the left's response has been shocking.

1) *some* on the left. the left writ large has been on target in terms of separating Hamas from Palestinians. How are Joe Biden's words, the leader of the left, ignored in this context?

2) There are plenty on the right who are expressing craven anti-semitic tendencies. So pick your poison between the middle-eastern anti-jew rhetoric and the "Confederate" Soros/Space Laser Gun anti-Jew rhetoric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

Wow. You’re a true iconoclast. The Democrats don’t deserve to have someone as real as you are. We should all look to you for how to structure a party for positive change.

I’m seeing unkempt grey hair, stale patchouli funk and a voter who long ago abandoned the Democratic Party which could have made a positive change in the world. They just didn’t have the purity you demanded and so you decided to hell with the world, to hell with women and rape victims and a world slowly burning… the only sane option wasn’t pure enough.

The worst version of the last paragraph never will approach the awfulness of recent Democratic leaders, especially Genocide Joe. Smart, decent people focus on what matters.

Live streamed, industrialized, large scale killing of children is being normalized and condoned. A desensitization of the populace to barbaric violence by morally bankrupt, corrupt leaders.

DP.

You mean the large-scale killing of children by Hamas?

If so, I agree that the left's response has been shocking.

No worries, what you normalize now with flippant one-liners, will impact you down the line. That's how a descent into darkness works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

Once you let the GOP do the Gilleadean corporate hellscape, it won't be undone, at least not in our lifetimes. You actually think there will be more elections? You think the Trump or DeSantis or whoever family, for example, would cede power? Please.