To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

PP here.

It's funny you bring up the minimum wage example.

You're aware that it passed in FL, right?

I had mixed feelings about it but ultimately voted for it. So perhaps we have a bit more common ground that you think?

I will say that your post also illustrates my main objection to the far left: the unwillingness to accept incremental progress or compromise.

It's also worth considering whether "a Gileadean corporate hellscape" is really better than incremental and uneven progress here and there.

DP. It’s not. That PP is just frustrated that she isn’t getting everything she wants immediately and sooner. She’d rather cut everyone loose to fend for themselves than work with - gasp - the Democrats. Selfish, selfish, selfish. Increments worked until the purists had to wrench it all.

Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We got 9/11, the Patriot Act, Homeland Security and all the spying, we got nothing accomplished on global warming, we got a worldwide pandemic, women lost citizenship rights and the fundamentalists are closer than ever to staging a total destruction of our liberal democracy, but you know what? Better that we just burn it all down and let the fascist GOP have their way, I guess, according to that walking sociopathic disorder.

Sounds like you and the people you loyally fall into line behind haven’t spent much time examining your own world. Do that first and then come back and then we won’t roll our eyes at your garbage.

You see I was correct about your selfish worldview. If people don’t conform to the way you think, you’ll “roll your eyes” at what you consider garbage. None of what I said was incorrect. I’m tired of watching people who think they know everything burn it down and then get mad when the lone group of adults in the current political system can’t fix your destruction fast enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Yes, she did.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/enabler-or-family-defender-how-hillary-clinton-responded-to-husbands-accusers/2016/09/28/58dad5d4-6fb1-11e6-8533-6b0b0ded0253_story.html


In case there is a paywall problem here:

“ the Democratic candidate sent out a tweet saying that assault victims deserve to be believed. At a public forum in December, a questioner confronted Clinton and asked whether her comment also applied to her husband’s accusers.

I would say that everybody should be believed at first,” she said, “until they are disbelieved based on evidence.””


Nevertheless, Hillary Clinton dismissed an accusation made by Gennifer Flowers, the singer who sold her story to a supermarket tabloid after having previously denied an affair. In an ABC News interview, she called Flowers “some failed cabaret singer who doesn’t even have much of a résumé to fall back on.” She told Esquire magazine in 1992 that if she had the chance to cross-examine Flowers, “I mean, I would crucify her.”

Six years later, Bill Clinton acknowledged a sexual encounter with Flowers.“

And I followed this closely in 2016 because I was personally a victim of workplace assault. So please. Show me the apologies and acknowledgment that this was a mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

You mean other than immigration/borders, green energy, trans issues, and privileged access through Klain?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

You mean other than immigration/borders, green energy, trans issues, and privileged access through Klain?

Green energy isn’t “progressive” it’s a basic requirement to exist in the current millennium. “Trans issues” meaning what exactly? What law has been passed other than not having an executive order on high school sports? I have to say your idea of “progressive” suggests you’re coming at this from rather a conservative viewpoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

You mean other than immigration/borders, green energy, trans issues, and privileged access through Klain?

Green energy isn’t “progressive” it’s a basic requirement to exist in the current millennium. “Trans issues” meaning what exactly? What law has been passed other than not having an executive order on high school sports? I have to say your idea of “progressive” suggests you’re coming at this from rather a conservative viewpoint.

I’m center-left for sure.

Biden’s actions on all of the above were left of the party’s center, and represented significant concessions to the party’s left wing.

IMO, that’s now over.

Between criminal justice reform, immigration, and Hamas attacks, progressives are untouchable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

You mean other than immigration/borders, green energy, trans issues, and privileged access through Klain?

Green energy isn’t “progressive” it’s a basic requirement to exist in the current millennium. “Trans issues” meaning what exactly? What law has been passed other than not having an executive order on high school sports? I have to say your idea of “progressive” suggests you’re coming at this from rather a conservative viewpoint.

I’m center-left for sure.

Biden’s actions on all of the above were left of the party’s center, and represented significant concessions to the party’s left wing.

IMO, that’s now over.

Between criminal justice reform, immigration, and Hamas attacks, progressives are untouchable.

Again what were his actions on Trans issues? His green energy was part of a huge infrastructure bill. And Klain was gone in January not October.

Adding to the fact that most Progressives — not all, there’s some problems here— are taking positions pretty aligned with the rest of the world, I really don’t think this was an October 7 problem. It clearly is for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.

Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.

Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.

You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.

Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.

With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.

Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.

But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.

We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.

DP.

I’m a left-leaning independent.

If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.

Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.

What do you suggest?

Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.

If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.

I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.

I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.

But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.

PP here.

It's funny you bring up the minimum wage example.

You're aware that it passed in FL, right?

I had mixed feelings about it but ultimately voted for it. So perhaps we have a bit more common ground that you think?

I will say that your post also illustrates my main objection to the far left: the unwillingness to accept incremental progress or compromise.

It's also worth considering whether "a Gileadean corporate hellscape" is really better than incremental and uneven progress here and there.

DP. It’s not. That PP is just frustrated that she isn’t getting everything she wants immediately and sooner. She’d rather cut everyone loose to fend for themselves than work with - gasp - the Democrats. Selfish, selfish, selfish. Increments worked until the purists had to wrench it all.

Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We got 9/11, the Patriot Act, Homeland Security and all the spying, we got nothing accomplished on global warming, we got a worldwide pandemic, women lost citizenship rights and the fundamentalists are closer than ever to staging a total destruction of our liberal democracy, but you know what? Better that we just burn it all down and let the fascist GOP have their way, I guess, according to that walking sociopathic disorder.

Sounds like you and the people you loyally fall into line behind haven’t spent much time examining your own world. Do that first and then come back and then we won’t roll our eyes at your garbage.

You see I was correct about your selfish worldview. If people don’t conform to the way you think, you’ll “roll your eyes” at what you consider garbage. None of what I said was incorrect. I’m tired of watching people who think they know everything burn it down and then get mad when the lone group of adults in the current political system can’t fix your destruction fast enough.

Deal with the fact that your $h!t is offensively bad or don’t be surprised when you inadvertently empower Trump or someone much, much worse. The Democrats are clearly a horror show and making some amends for that is where you get a larger majority. Pretending our problems stem from a handle of anonymous voters instead of a few big names (Bush, Clinton, Obama, Trump, Biden, etc) is ridiculous, especially when a lot of those big names are Democrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

You mean other than immigration/borders, green energy, trans issues, and privileged access through Klain?

Green energy isn’t “progressive” it’s a basic requirement to exist in the current millennium. “Trans issues” meaning what exactly? What law has been passed other than not having an executive order on high school sports? I have to say your idea of “progressive” suggests you’re coming at this from rather a conservative viewpoint.

I’m center-left for sure.

Biden’s actions on all of the above were left of the party’s center, and represented significant concessions to the party’s left wing.

IMO, that’s now over.

Between criminal justice reform, immigration, and Hamas attacks, progressives are untouchable.

I’ll believe progressives or any other faction is untouchable when they ruin some plutocrats. Until then, their power is largely superficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

So you are equating the fringe left (which by the way is no different than the "Jewish Space Laser" believers on the right) with what is main stream GOP.

Do you see Joe Biden or any Democratic leadership "cheering on" the actions of Hamas? I don't. If you do, please share a link. You are citing two fringe left House members and some fringe left protestors.

Do you see the House Speaker, a GOP, tying israel aid to defunding the IRS by 15 billion dollars? How is that main stream? Even Mitch McConnell is outraged.

But sure, go with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

The election is in a year and Trump may not be on the ballot. What will the justification for voting for a candidate who has failed me, as a voter, be then?

What do you see as the responsibility of the President and his Party to actually persuade voters? To recognize and correct mistakes? To motivate voters?