Atheist bil won’t allow 3 year old nephew to receive a gift during holidays

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

+1

We're in a big multicultural family where some members don't celebrate Christmas, some do the tree and gift giving but nothing religious, and some celebrate it as a religious holiday. Our kids are being raised Jewish. They understood that when we went to see the grandparents over winter break, some of the cousins would be celebrating and would receive Christmas presents. Even from a very young age, our kids were fine with this. It was basically like going to someone else's birthday party.

We stopped going to the grandparents' for winter break after someone decided our kids were really missing out and made them personalized Christmas stockings. It felt really disrespectful and dismissive of our preferences, and it was clearly not for our kids, who didn't have a problem celebrating Christmas for their cousins' sake.

Just respect the parents' wishes, OP.

I can understand you are jewish and dont want to participate in a different religious observance. But what if OP's family history is christian to begin with? I think in that case this is cruel to the child to bring them to christmas celebrations. Maybe it would be like if your parents said they were taking you to a family gathering for a jewish holiday, but you're not allowed to participate, just watch everybody else in your family, because your parents declare you all are not practicing judaism anymore, only atheism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:dp, where to start?

people who aend their kids to Sunday School don’t want to spend time with their kids or love them?

mythical God?

Church is about tithing and lies?

People who are religious don’t teach personal responsibility to their kids?

Atheism is a culture of Family first, and religious people do not put family first because they attend church and believe in God?

Honestly- if you can’t see how you sound smug and insufferable here but think that the atheist PP sounds smug and insufferable- that’s on you.

But hey…. That’s what brainwashing will do. Enjoy being insufferable and having your kids (who are most likely atheists too because, that the trend) pitying you for your lack of self awareness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:dp, where to start?

people who aend their kids to Sunday School don’t want to spend time with their kids or love them?

mythical God?

Church is about tithing and lies?

People who are religious don’t teach personal responsibility to their kids?

Atheism is a culture of Family first, and religious people do not put family first because they attend church and believe in God?

Honestly- if you can’t see how you sound smug and insufferable here but think that the atheist PP sounds smug and insufferable- that’s on you.

But hey…. That’s what brainwashing will do. Enjoy being insufferable and having your kids (who are most likely atheists too because, that the trend) pitying you for your lack of self awareness.

DP. Looks like smug and insufferable atheist is butthurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

+1

We're in a big multicultural family where some members don't celebrate Christmas, some do the tree and gift giving but nothing religious, and some celebrate it as a religious holiday. Our kids are being raised Jewish. They understood that when we went to see the grandparents over winter break, some of the cousins would be celebrating and would receive Christmas presents. Even from a very young age, our kids were fine with this. It was basically like going to someone else's birthday party.

We stopped going to the grandparents' for winter break after someone decided our kids were really missing out and made them personalized Christmas stockings. It felt really disrespectful and dismissive of our preferences, and it was clearly not for our kids, who didn't have a problem celebrating Christmas for their cousins' sake.

Just respect the parents' wishes, OP.

I can understand you are jewish and dont want to participate in a different religious observance. But what if OP's family history is christian to begin with? I think in that case this is cruel to the child to bring them to christmas celebrations. Maybe it would be like if your parents said they were taking you to a family gathering for a jewish holiday, but you're not allowed to participate, just watch everybody else in your family, because your parents declare you all are not practicing judaism anymore, only atheism.

The atheist kid has never celebrated Christmas so your comment doesn't even make sense - and yes, lots of people can spend time with people who have different religious beliefs. Lots of people change their religious beliefs when they grow up and gasp, sometimes people even marry someone of a different faith. There's this thing called compromise. Atheist family agrees to come to Christmas celebration to be with the people they love despite their feelings about Christianity and then, here's the fun part, the Christian family compromises by not giving a gift to Larlo. Everyone eats and laughs and has a good time together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:dp, where to start?

people who aend their kids to Sunday School don’t want to spend time with their kids or love them?

mythical God?

Church is about tithing and lies?

People who are religious don’t teach personal responsibility to their kids?

Atheism is a culture of Family first, and religious people do not put family first because they attend church and believe in God?

Honestly- if you can’t see how you sound smug and insufferable here but think that the atheist PP sounds smug and insufferable- that’s on you.

But hey…. That’s what brainwashing will do. Enjoy being insufferable and having your kids (who are most likely atheists too because, that the trend) pitying you for your lack of self awareness.

DP. Looks like smug and insufferable atheist is butthurt.

DP: I know right? It’s like atheists enjoy being smug and have their Sundays free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

+1

We're in a big multicultural family where some members don't celebrate Christmas, some do the tree and gift giving but nothing religious, and some celebrate it as a religious holiday. Our kids are being raised Jewish. They understood that when we went to see the grandparents over winter break, some of the cousins would be celebrating and would receive Christmas presents. Even from a very young age, our kids were fine with this. It was basically like going to someone else's birthday party.

We stopped going to the grandparents' for winter break after someone decided our kids were really missing out and made them personalized Christmas stockings. It felt really disrespectful and dismissive of our preferences, and it was clearly not for our kids, who didn't have a problem celebrating Christmas for their cousins' sake.

Just respect the parents' wishes, OP.

I can understand you are jewish and dont want to participate in a different religious observance. But what if OP's family history is christian to begin with? I think in that case this is cruel to the child to bring them to christmas celebrations. Maybe it would be like if your parents said they were taking you to a family gathering for a jewish holiday, but you're not allowed to participate, just watch everybody else in your family, because your parents declare you all are not practicing judaism anymore, only atheism.

This is not like this at all. The kid is 3 and has never celebrated Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Each time I see the threat title I think "an atheist bill, cool, I hope it passes!"
Atheist of Catholic and Jewish heritage. Gifts and Christmas all the way!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

+1

Yikes

I'm the long PP above. At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP is just a troll. She's crossed from the rational to the irrational and is making everything more and more extreme. She refutes all arguments and just keeps trying to make her sister and BIL a bad guy. Pretty nutso.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

+1

Yikes

I'm the long PP above. At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP is just a troll. She's crossed from the rational to the irrational and is making everything more and more extreme. She refutes all arguments and just keeps trying to make her sister and BIL a bad guy. Pretty nutso.

‘Tis the season!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a family get together each Christmas, with a large meal and board games and a walk as the main activities. No adults exchange gifts. We do, as a family, contribute to a fund to buy a $25 or so priced gift for each child in our family. My mother/their grandmother makes sure each gift is wanted and wraps the gifts to place under the Christmas tree for the children. Our sister is agnostic married to an atheist. They’ve attended each year and declined a gift for their son, our nephew/grandson. This year the child is 3, almost 4. My mother is worried he will see the other children (his cousins) opening their gifts, playing with their toys, and feel left out and be sad, cry, etc. I called my sister and asked if mom could give their son a gift and wrap it in a plain colored paper for him to open. We don’t want to put it under the tree. Mom can put it somewhere else and give it to Larlo as a gift from grandma to grandchild.

My sister discussed it with her husband, and they decided that’s not acceptable. My mom is so sad. We can’t go against their wishes, but it seems cruel. We don’t want them to stop spending time with us, or think we don’t accept their choices. We do. We love them. But mom is wanting to see her grandson happy and not left out. Any advice? We also don’t want to not get a gift for the other grandkids to make it “fair,” and stop that tradition.

It's mean and controlling. It is unconscionable for anyone to make a child feel left out and beyond belief for a parent to deliberately do so. It would be better if they did not attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

+1

Yikes

I'm the long PP above. At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP is just a troll. She's crossed from the rational to the irrational and is making everything more and more extreme. She refutes all arguments and just keeps trying to make her sister and BIL a bad guy. Pretty nutso.

Objectively, BIL sounds like the bad guy. He doesn't need any embroidery from OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

+1

Yikes

I'm the long PP above. At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP is just a troll. She's crossed from the rational to the irrational and is making everything more and more extreme. She refutes all arguments and just keeps trying to make her sister and BIL a bad guy. Pretty nutso.

Objectively, BIL sounds like the bad guy. He doesn't need any embroidery from OP.

Objectively, BIL sounds like a guy who is willing to attend a celebration for a holiday he doesn't believe in so that his child can spend time with extended family. How is he the bad guy in this scenario?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

+1

Yikes

I'm the long PP above. At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP is just a troll. She's crossed from the rational to the irrational and is making everything more and more extreme. She refutes all arguments and just keeps trying to make her sister and BIL a bad guy. Pretty nutso.

Objectively, BIL sounds like the bad guy. He doesn't need any embroidery from OP.

Objectively, BIL sounds like a guy who is willing to attend a celebration for a holiday he doesn't believe in so that his child can spend time with extended family. How is he the bad guy in this scenario?

Objectively, BIL sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He should just stay away if he cares about his son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

+1

Yikes

I'm the long PP above. At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP is just a troll. She's crossed from the rational to the irrational and is making everything more and more extreme. She refutes all arguments and just keeps trying to make her sister and BIL a bad guy. Pretty nutso.

Objectively, BIL sounds like the bad guy. He doesn't need any embroidery from OP.

Objectively, BIL sounds like a guy who is willing to attend a celebration for a holiday he doesn't believe in so that his child can spend time with extended family. How is he the bad guy in this scenario?

Objectively, BIL sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He should just stay away if he cares about his son.

That’s what happened. My sister came with Larlo and they participated in the entire celebration and Larlo got his gift. My sister said she changed her mind because: she got home from work a few days ago and bil was setting up their new smart tv. She asked where it came from, because they weren’t planning on buying a new tv. Bil said his mom sent it to them as a gift. My sister said whoa, a Christmas gift? He said no, just a gift. My sister said ok, but the thought of bil getting a gift around Christmas and calling it a non-specific gift while denying Larlo a gift rankled her. She tried to discuss it with him the next day but he said no Christmas, holiday, etc, gifts for Larlo! She said she told him he got a gift so Larlo is getting one.

Bil stayed home because he’s not comfortable or happy with Larlo getting a Christmas gift. My sister didn’t say much about it- she was too happy watching Larlo play with his cousins and enjoying everything. It was a great time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

+1

Yikes

I'm the long PP above. At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP is just a troll. She's crossed from the rational to the irrational and is making everything more and more extreme. She refutes all arguments and just keeps trying to make her sister and BIL a bad guy. Pretty nutso.

Objectively, BIL sounds like the bad guy. He doesn't need any embroidery from OP.

Objectively, BIL sounds like a guy who is willing to attend a celebration for a holiday he doesn't believe in so that his child can spend time with extended family. How is he the bad guy in this scenario?

Objectively, BIL sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He should just stay away if he cares about his son.

That’s what happened. My sister came with Larlo and they participated in the entire celebration and Larlo got his gift. My sister said she changed her mind because: she got home from work a few days ago and bil was setting up their new smart tv. She asked where it came from, because they weren’t planning on buying a new tv. Bil said his mom sent it to them as a gift. My sister said whoa, a Christmas gift? He said no, just a gift. My sister said ok, but the thought of bil getting a gift around Christmas and calling it a non-specific gift while denying Larlo a gift rankled her. She tried to discuss it with him the next day but he said no Christmas, holiday, etc, gifts for Larlo! She said she told him he got a gift so Larlo is getting one.

Bil stayed home because he’s not comfortable or happy with Larlo getting a Christmas gift. My sister didn’t say much about it- she was too happy watching Larlo play with his cousins and enjoying everything. It was a great time.

This sounds like it worked out well, OP. BIL stayed home sulking and watching his gift TV. Larlo played with his cousins.