Any men here who walked away from their families?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question about the men who do this and then launch new families with a younger woman. Do those stick or do they end up walking away from those too?

I’m the new wife (now ex-wife). I was actually wife #3. Yes, I was stupid, and yes, I should have known better.

He tried to stick it out because a third divorce and broken family looks bad, but even though he was physically in the home, mentally and emotionally he was completely checked out.

Reality is a lot of men simply don’t want families and go through with it because of pressure from society, peer groups, family, etc. In our case, I do believe he wanted companionship, and he only went through with marriage and kids because I was going to break up with him if he didn’t.

He moved about 10 minutes from me and we do 50/50 custody. I don’t know how he parents (DC is 3, so can’t communicate about xH’s parenting) and I don’t know if he’ll end up bailing like he did on his first two families. It would not surprise me if he did leave (with the first two he moved out of state “for work”), but I do think he’s a better father when he only has to be a father half the time and can spend the rest of the time on his hobbies, which aren’t very compatible with family life.

Even if he does stick around, I know he won’t be contributing to DC’s college fund or leaving any sort of inheritance. He is absolutely terrible with money and convinced his oldest child (23yo) not to go to college because he didn’t want to pay for it, which has of course ruined that child’s life and they bounce from minimum wage job to minimum wage job. He also never paid child support for any of his previous kids, even though he saw them only 1-2 times a year and their moms had full custody.

When younger women ask me for dating advice, I always tell them if a man is an even the slightest bit hesitant at the idea of marriage and kids, dump him. Don’t try to convince him. Don’t issue ultimatums. Don’t believe them when you dump them and they come crawling, swearing they changed their mind. They didn’t. They just don’t want to be alone.

I am so curious how he managed to get you to marry him. Did he just conceal all of this?

Honestly, I'm baffled myself how I fell for it. My self-esteem is great. What I think happened:

1. He actually did years of therapy and knew all the right things to say. I do believe on some level he wanted to change. But all therapy really did was give him a bunch of buzzwords to make it sound like he had changed. However, since he did therapy before we met and throughout the duration of our relationship, I took that as a sign he was committed, was improving, and was serious about me.

2. We had intense physical chemistry. I'm not usually a slave to pheromones or my hormones, but yowza. Hard to explain if you haven't experienced that yourself.

3. We had a ton in common, more than I'd had with anyone prior. We actually made great friends, and everyone always says to marry your best friend.

4. I actually did break up with him multiple times over the fact that I wanted marriage & kids, and he didn't. I'd end things cordially, saying what we wanted wasn't in alignment, he'd come crawling to me a couple weeks/months later saying he'd been reflecting on it, talking to his therapist, etc, and realized he actually did want to get married and have a family. And he *would* follow through on whatever he promised.

I also think a lot is messaging from the media and pop culture that if a man wants you, he will change for you. I've since learned that no, people don't ever actually change. They may try, they may seem to, but you can't undo decades of habits and patterns.

So you never said something like "Okay, if you're so committed to improving, start paying your child support" and then waited to see if he did it?

PP. I actually didn't know he didn't pay child support until near the end of our marriage. He was pocketing the money he said was for child support.

I did ask him to make certain improvements, which he did. Things really started falling apart after we actually had DC and he realized he didn't actually want more kids after all.

It is what it is. Yes, in hindsight, I should have just moved on rather than believe him. But it's too late now. I don't beat myself up over his decision to mislead me, that's on him.

When my ex didn’t pay child support I made sure everyone, yes including his at the time current live in love, his family, and friends. When that didn’t work I wrecked his credit, took his passport, etc., and if he had property that could be it had a lien on it.

I find it really hard to believe you had no idea if you got close enough to marry him. We see what we want to see.

The best advice you can give a younger woman is don’t be so desperate for anything that will have you, that you fail to really see a man’s character.

Ask for a copy of his credit report, chid support isn’t fun, but not paying it isn’t the same as forgetting to pay the water bill. One is absent minded the other is a lack of character.

if he has kids already, and you chose to get involved anyway you had no excuse, you weren’t duped you were an idiot. You can’t hide easily verifiable things like not paying support or being there for your kids.

Does he put their needs before yours. If not that’s a lack of character. If you married or dated him thinking “he loves me so much he even puts me before his children” then you have low self esteem and lack character.

If he’s been married twice already, and already has 2 sets of kids of course he can’t make time for them, iif he has time to date then he’s not making time for his kids because you can’t be in 3 places at once. Also he’s a moron who can’t manage adulting because who consistently makes such careless and reckless decisions. It’s not cute it’s stupid.

You’d have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think the 3rd time is the charm. No the 3rd woman who steps up to that plate just proves there is a sucker born every minute.

Best advice be wary of a divorced man, if he’s been divorced more than once, easy, run in the opposite direction. No excuses.

If only divorced once give him a chance but talk to the ex, if she’s still mad, after a few years there’s probably a good reason and it probably involves money and his not sharing the child rearing load.

Get to know his friends and family. A man who walks away from his kids isn’t just bad in one way, he’s usually bad in a lot of ways and there is always at least a few who will be honest with you.

No doubt you and your kids got burned and that sucks, but if you are going to give advice, start with check his references and his credit report before you have mind blowing intimacy.

And easiest advice of all if he’s been married twice already, danger, danger, abort, abort. Abandon mission and run the opposite way.

You sound psychotic. You know it’s illegal to take someone’s passport?

Nope. Men need to support the children they create. It's 100% LEGAL for the court to take away someones passport if they refuse to support their children. If you have money to travel you have money to support your children.

[Anonymous]

My exBIL abandoned his first family and then his ex wife took his children and moved states away. Fast forward to my sister marrying this dude and she believed him when he said his ex wife was crazy. That was until my sister became crazy ex wife #2 after he abandoned her and their children.

[Anonymous]

I wish I understood the impetus to leave your children. In my case, my now ex was the one that pursued me. I thought we were just having a fling while working. He wanted to be serious. He was the first to ask if I wanted children. He proposed. Everyone we worked with was happy when he proposed, and everyone told me what a great guy he was. He had always been supportive and attentive.

Fast forward 5 years. I had two children with him and found out he was a cheater. Confronted him, he lied extensively about the nature of the cheating, but I dug and figured out that he had basically been serially cheating for the entire 5 years. Sociopathic.

Of course, I kicked him out, but offered him 50/50 and encouraged a relationship with the kids. He played circus dad for a while and then married someone else, and essentially walked out on the kids.

I think he was just the kind of person who manipulates others for his personal gain. The kids are just one more set of people for him to manipulate for his own gain.

Wife #2 looked like she could provide money and stability and organize his life. Unfortunately for him, that failed also.

Now that she's out of the picture, he's showing more interest in the kids. Again, just for his personal gain - I think he would like them to support him in his old age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question about the men who do this and then launch new families with a younger woman. Do those stick or do they end up walking away from those too?

I’m the new wife (now ex-wife). I was actually wife #3. Yes, I was stupid, and yes, I should have known better.

He tried to stick it out because a third divorce and broken family looks bad, but even though he was physically in the home, mentally and emotionally he was completely checked out.

Reality is a lot of men simply don’t want families and go through with it because of pressure from society, peer groups, family, etc. In our case, I do believe he wanted companionship, and he only went through with marriage and kids because I was going to break up with him if he didn’t.

He moved about 10 minutes from me and we do 50/50 custody. I don’t know how he parents (DC is 3, so can’t communicate about xH’s parenting) and I don’t know if he’ll end up bailing like he did on his first two families. It would not surprise me if he did leave (with the first two he moved out of state “for work”), but I do think he’s a better father when he only has to be a father half the time and can spend the rest of the time on his hobbies, which aren’t very compatible with family life.

Even if he does stick around, I know he won’t be contributing to DC’s college fund or leaving any sort of inheritance. He is absolutely terrible with money and convinced his oldest child (23yo) not to go to college because he didn’t want to pay for it, which has of course ruined that child’s life and they bounce from minimum wage job to minimum wage job. He also never paid child support for any of his previous kids, even though he saw them only 1-2 times a year and their moms had full custody.

When younger women ask me for dating advice, I always tell them if a man is an even the slightest bit hesitant at the idea of marriage and kids, dump him. Don’t try to convince him. Don’t issue ultimatums. Don’t believe them when you dump them and they come crawling, swearing they changed their mind. They didn’t. They just don’t want to be alone.

I am so curious how he managed to get you to marry him. Did he just conceal all of this?

Honestly, I'm baffled myself how I fell for it. My self-esteem is great. What I think happened:

1. He actually did years of therapy and knew all the right things to say. I do believe on some level he wanted to change. But all therapy really did was give him a bunch of buzzwords to make it sound like he had changed. However, since he did therapy before we met and throughout the duration of our relationship, I took that as a sign he was committed, was improving, and was serious about me.

2. We had intense physical chemistry. I'm not usually a slave to pheromones or my hormones, but yowza. Hard to explain if you haven't experienced that yourself.

3. We had a ton in common, more than I'd had with anyone prior. We actually made great friends, and everyone always says to marry your best friend.

4. I actually did break up with him multiple times over the fact that I wanted marriage & kids, and he didn't. I'd end things cordially, saying what we wanted wasn't in alignment, he'd come crawling to me a couple weeks/months later saying he'd been reflecting on it, talking to his therapist, etc, and realized he actually did want to get married and have a family. And he *would* follow through on whatever he promised.

I also think a lot is messaging from the media and pop culture that if a man wants you, he will change for you. I've since learned that no, people don't ever actually change. They may try, they may seem to, but you can't undo decades of habits and patterns.

So you never said something like "Okay, if you're so committed to improving, start paying your child support" and then waited to see if he did it?

PP. I actually didn't know he didn't pay child support until near the end of our marriage. He was pocketing the money he said was for child support.

I did ask him to make certain improvements, which he did. Things really started falling apart after we actually had DC and he realized he didn't actually want more kids after all.

It is what it is. Yes, in hindsight, I should have just moved on rather than believe him. But it's too late now. I don't beat myself up over his decision to mislead me, that's on him.

When my ex didn’t pay child support I made sure everyone, yes including his at the time current live in love, his family, and friends. When that didn’t work I wrecked his credit, took his passport, etc., and if he had property that could be it had a lien on it.

I find it really hard to believe you had no idea if you got close enough to marry him. We see what we want to see.

The best advice you can give a younger woman is don’t be so desperate for anything that will have you, that you fail to really see a man’s character.

Ask for a copy of his credit report, chid support isn’t fun, but not paying it isn’t the same as forgetting to pay the water bill. One is absent minded the other is a lack of character.

if he has kids already, and you chose to get involved anyway you had no excuse, you weren’t duped you were an idiot. You can’t hide easily verifiable things like not paying support or being there for your kids.

Does he put their needs before yours. If not that’s a lack of character. If you married or dated him thinking “he loves me so much he even puts me before his children” then you have low self esteem and lack character.

If he’s been married twice already, and already has 2 sets of kids of course he can’t make time for them, iif he has time to date then he’s not making time for his kids because you can’t be in 3 places at once. Also he’s a moron who can’t manage adulting because who consistently makes such careless and reckless decisions. It’s not cute it’s stupid.

You’d have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think the 3rd time is the charm. No the 3rd woman who steps up to that plate just proves there is a sucker born every minute.

Best advice be wary of a divorced man, if he’s been divorced more than once, easy, run in the opposite direction. No excuses.

If only divorced once give him a chance but talk to the ex, if she’s still mad, after a few years there’s probably a good reason and it probably involves money and his not sharing the child rearing load.

Get to know his friends and family. A man who walks away from his kids isn’t just bad in one way, he’s usually bad in a lot of ways and there is always at least a few who will be honest with you.

No doubt you and your kids got burned and that sucks, but if you are going to give advice, start with check his references and his credit report before you have mind blowing intimacy.

And easiest advice of all if he’s been married twice already, danger, danger, abort, abort. Abandon mission and run the opposite way.

I honestly do not understand how my ex got wife #2 on the hook. There were so many red flags. His relationship with wife #2 ended and within 6 months, he had already introduced a new girlfriend to his young adult kids on a family vacation (which was the first time he had seen them in 6 months).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question about the men who do this and then launch new families with a younger woman. Do those stick or do they end up walking away from those too?

I’m the new wife (now ex-wife). I was actually wife #3. Yes, I was stupid, and yes, I should have known better.

He tried to stick it out because a third divorce and broken family looks bad, but even though he was physically in the home, mentally and emotionally he was completely checked out.

Reality is a lot of men simply don’t want families and go through with it because of pressure from society, peer groups, family, etc. In our case, I do believe he wanted companionship, and he only went through with marriage and kids because I was going to break up with him if he didn’t.

He moved about 10 minutes from me and we do 50/50 custody. I don’t know how he parents (DC is 3, so can’t communicate about xH’s parenting) and I don’t know if he’ll end up bailing like he did on his first two families. It would not surprise me if he did leave (with the first two he moved out of state “for work”), but I do think he’s a better father when he only has to be a father half the time and can spend the rest of the time on his hobbies, which aren’t very compatible with family life.

Even if he does stick around, I know he won’t be contributing to DC’s college fund or leaving any sort of inheritance. He is absolutely terrible with money and convinced his oldest child (23yo) not to go to college because he didn’t want to pay for it, which has of course ruined that child’s life and they bounce from minimum wage job to minimum wage job. He also never paid child support for any of his previous kids, even though he saw them only 1-2 times a year and their moms had full custody.

When younger women ask me for dating advice, I always tell them if a man is an even the slightest bit hesitant at the idea of marriage and kids, dump him. Don’t try to convince him. Don’t issue ultimatums. Don’t believe them when you dump them and they come crawling, swearing they changed their mind. They didn’t. They just don’t want to be alone.

I am so curious how he managed to get you to marry him. Did he just conceal all of this?

Honestly, I'm baffled myself how I fell for it. My self-esteem is great. What I think happened:

1. He actually did years of therapy and knew all the right things to say. I do believe on some level he wanted to change. But all therapy really did was give him a bunch of buzzwords to make it sound like he had changed. However, since he did therapy before we met and throughout the duration of our relationship, I took that as a sign he was committed, was improving, and was serious about me.

2. We had intense physical chemistry. I'm not usually a slave to pheromones or my hormones, but yowza. Hard to explain if you haven't experienced that yourself.

3. We had a ton in common, more than I'd had with anyone prior. We actually made great friends, and everyone always says to marry your best friend.

4. I actually did break up with him multiple times over the fact that I wanted marriage & kids, and he didn't. I'd end things cordially, saying what we wanted wasn't in alignment, he'd come crawling to me a couple weeks/months later saying he'd been reflecting on it, talking to his therapist, etc, and realized he actually did want to get married and have a family. And he *would* follow through on whatever he promised.

I also think a lot is messaging from the media and pop culture that if a man wants you, he will change for you. I've since learned that no, people don't ever actually change. They may try, they may seem to, but you can't undo decades of habits and patterns.

So you never said something like "Okay, if you're so committed to improving, start paying your child support" and then waited to see if he did it?

PP. I actually didn't know he didn't pay child support until near the end of our marriage. He was pocketing the money he said was for child support.

I did ask him to make certain improvements, which he did. Things really started falling apart after we actually had DC and he realized he didn't actually want more kids after all.

It is what it is. Yes, in hindsight, I should have just moved on rather than believe him. But it's too late now. I don't beat myself up over his decision to mislead me, that's on him.

When my ex didn’t pay child support I made sure everyone, yes including his at the time current live in love, his family, and friends. When that didn’t work I wrecked his credit, took his passport, etc., and if he had property that could be it had a lien on it.

I find it really hard to believe you had no idea if you got close enough to marry him. We see what we want to see.

The best advice you can give a younger woman is don’t be so desperate for anything that will have you, that you fail to really see a man’s character.

Ask for a copy of his credit report, chid support isn’t fun, but not paying it isn’t the same as forgetting to pay the water bill. One is absent minded the other is a lack of character.

if he has kids already, and you chose to get involved anyway you had no excuse, you weren’t duped you were an idiot. You can’t hide easily verifiable things like not paying support or being there for your kids.

Does he put their needs before yours. If not that’s a lack of character. If you married or dated him thinking “he loves me so much he even puts me before his children” then you have low self esteem and lack character.

If he’s been married twice already, and already has 2 sets of kids of course he can’t make time for them, iif he has time to date then he’s not making time for his kids because you can’t be in 3 places at once. Also he’s a moron who can’t manage adulting because who consistently makes such careless and reckless decisions. It’s not cute it’s stupid.

You’d have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think the 3rd time is the charm. No the 3rd woman who steps up to that plate just proves there is a sucker born every minute.

Best advice be wary of a divorced man, if he’s been divorced more than once, easy, run in the opposite direction. No excuses.

If only divorced once give him a chance but talk to the ex, if she’s still mad, after a few years there’s probably a good reason and it probably involves money and his not sharing the child rearing load.

Get to know his friends and family. A man who walks away from his kids isn’t just bad in one way, he’s usually bad in a lot of ways and there is always at least a few who will be honest with you.

No doubt you and your kids got burned and that sucks, but if you are going to give advice, start with check his references and his credit report before you have mind blowing intimacy.

And easiest advice of all if he’s been married twice already, danger, danger, abort, abort. Abandon mission and run the opposite way.

You sound psychotic. You know it’s illegal to take someone’s passport?

Nope. Men need to support the children they create. It's 100% LEGAL for the court to take away someones passport if they refuse to support their children. If you have money to travel you have money to support your children.

States will also execute people, but that doesn't make it legal for you to kill someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously really bad for society in many ways- bad for families, bad for the children involved, bad for the second set of kids, just generally destructive of family life. It also messes with the dating pool and is damaging for women in general.

So I'm not sure why it's not more openly condemned or talked about. I guess since most media and public outlets are controlled by older men.

It's interesting to me that with all the talk about traditional families and conservative culture now, people don't talk about this more. Maybe young conservative women are content to marry middle-aged men on their second or third families? But men leaving their families to start a second family is pretty high on the list of societal dysfunction.

It is not talked about for several reasons. The first of which is that our society prioritizes freedom and choice above almost all else, especially responsibility and tradition. The second of which is that the concept that marriage is between one man and one woman is also viewed as outdated, old-fashioned, and an outdated relic of Christian morality. The third of which is that it is a currently popular espoused belief among elites that all different types of family structures are equally good for raising children.

It would be better for kids if poly marriages were legalized and men allowed to host 2 families in the same house. And obligated to take care of kids (minimum college costs, as in Germany for example).

hahahaha. Honestly, I love how DCUM has all kinds of abusers who try to promote their abusive reality. It's crazy to me. The idea that marriage is between two people (whether hetero or homosexual) is not outdated at all. It is the belief of the vast majority of Americans - even many Muslims whose religion might otherwise permit multiple wives. But, nice try associating monogamous marriage strictly with Christian morality.

No, it would not be better for kids if poly marriages were legalized. Because the truth is that women do not want to live in poly-marriages and raise kids with another woman. And men already can't support the limited number of children that they had with wife number 1, so more children isn't the solution, it's the problem. The man can't support 2 kids with the old wife and 2 kids with the new wife, so since he's with the new wife, he supports the two kids with her and looks like a good dad and hero to her and her circle, and just ignores how terribly he abdicated his responsibility with the first two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this just shows how little how you or the men in your life care about their kids.

"What Happens if a Mother Refuses Access?
If there’s a court order granting visitation and the mother refuses to comply, she could face legal consequences. The father can go back to court and file a motion to enforce visitation. If she continues to block access, she could be found in contempt of court, which might lead to fines or other penalties. In some cases, a judge could even modify custody arrangements in favor of the father."

So instead of whining and complaining about their ex on the internet, they could have been doing the work and getting even more custody. Oh wait, it's working exactly as planned because these men didn't even want custody in the first place.

She "can" face legal consequences but likely she won't. Most often the result of a woman ignoring a court order is, you drag her back to court, and the judge issues another court order which she ignores. The judge is not going to award the father custody unless it's an extreme and provable case of the mom being unfit. Very rare.

And when push comes to shove, most ex-husbands are very hesitant to have their ex-wives thrown in jail, because that will traumatize his kids no matter how much his XW deserved it.

None of this happened to you, because this is a crazy scenario. Stop talking mess and start talking facts, if you even have any. You sound paranoid and delusional, not to mention misogynist af.

I am not the PP but this is actually not a crazy scenario - I know someone living it right now. The mom is actively keeping the child from the dad. She is making false allegations against him, she pulled the child out of summer camp two weeks early, and has gone so far as to take the kid to another state for a month. Is that kidnapping? Yeah. Do you know how quickly a court does something about that? Not very. And frankly, the dad doesn't want to charge her with it because he cares enough to know that it's not good for their kid if one parent is convicted of a crime (although the mom doesn't feel this way so she's trying to press charges for things she has already said he didn't do). The legal system isn't quick, and when you're talking about an 8-year old, there's not a lot the kid can do to try to reach the dad either. His lawyers have advised him not to try to go get the kid because he needs to let the system work its way through things. I'd like to go kidnap the child myself and deliver her to her dad but obviously I wouldn't do that. You want more facts?

So he recognizes the danger, keeps his child in danger, and doesnt bother going to court to fight for his 8 year old? Yikes. Great parent.

Mom is at fault. Courts do nothing. Be real. What can he do?

News flash. It's not kidnaping if a parent takes their own child. No parent is going to jail for the crime of kidnapping if they take their kid to another state for a few weeks vacation and return. It is definitely a custody order violation, and would easily result in a change of custody if Dad took it to court.

The lawyers advice for the dad to work through the court is wise. Good custodial parents seek to avoid actually physical confrontation over the bodies of their kids.

I get really tired of whiny men who say they can't get custody. They can. They actually usually have an advantage if things go to court. (See published research on this by GW). The truth is they don't want to, and often it's a cover that enables their own failings. My ex could easily have had 50/50 custody if he filed in court for it. But, he would have risked me speaking in open court about his mental illness, his serial cheating, the times he left the kids alone, was drinking heavily while they were with him, etc. He preferred to look like the good dad who was screwed by his wife. I kept my mouth shut and didn't speak about all his craziness to any of our mutual friends (although all mine knew and my family as well.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question about the men who do this and then launch new families with a younger woman. Do those stick or do they end up walking away from those too?

I’m the new wife (now ex-wife). I was actually wife #3. Yes, I was stupid, and yes, I should have known better.

He tried to stick it out because a third divorce and broken family looks bad, but even though he was physically in the home, mentally and emotionally he was completely checked out.

Reality is a lot of men simply don’t want families and go through with it because of pressure from society, peer groups, family, etc. In our case, I do believe he wanted companionship, and he only went through with marriage and kids because I was going to break up with him if he didn’t.

He moved about 10 minutes from me and we do 50/50 custody. I don’t know how he parents (DC is 3, so can’t communicate about xH’s parenting) and I don’t know if he’ll end up bailing like he did on his first two families. It would not surprise me if he did leave (with the first two he moved out of state “for work”), but I do think he’s a better father when he only has to be a father half the time and can spend the rest of the time on his hobbies, which aren’t very compatible with family life.

Even if he does stick around, I know he won’t be contributing to DC’s college fund or leaving any sort of inheritance. He is absolutely terrible with money and convinced his oldest child (23yo) not to go to college because he didn’t want to pay for it, which has of course ruined that child’s life and they bounce from minimum wage job to minimum wage job. He also never paid child support for any of his previous kids, even though he saw them only 1-2 times a year and their moms had full custody.

When younger women ask me for dating advice, I always tell them if a man is an even the slightest bit hesitant at the idea of marriage and kids, dump him. Don’t try to convince him. Don’t issue ultimatums. Don’t believe them when you dump them and they come crawling, swearing they changed their mind. They didn’t. They just don’t want to be alone.

I am so curious how he managed to get you to marry him. Did he just conceal all of this?

Honestly, I'm baffled myself how I fell for it. My self-esteem is great. What I think happened:

1. He actually did years of therapy and knew all the right things to say. I do believe on some level he wanted to change. But all therapy really did was give him a bunch of buzzwords to make it sound like he had changed. However, since he did therapy before we met and throughout the duration of our relationship, I took that as a sign he was committed, was improving, and was serious about me.

2. We had intense physical chemistry. I'm not usually a slave to pheromones or my hormones, but yowza. Hard to explain if you haven't experienced that yourself.

3. We had a ton in common, more than I'd had with anyone prior. We actually made great friends, and everyone always says to marry your best friend.

4. I actually did break up with him multiple times over the fact that I wanted marriage & kids, and he didn't. I'd end things cordially, saying what we wanted wasn't in alignment, he'd come crawling to me a couple weeks/months later saying he'd been reflecting on it, talking to his therapist, etc, and realized he actually did want to get married and have a family. And he *would* follow through on whatever he promised.

I also think a lot is messaging from the media and pop culture that if a man wants you, he will change for you. I've since learned that no, people don't ever actually change. They may try, they may seem to, but you can't undo decades of habits and patterns.

So you never said something like "Okay, if you're so committed to improving, start paying your child support" and then waited to see if he did it?

PP. I actually didn't know he didn't pay child support until near the end of our marriage. He was pocketing the money he said was for child support.

I did ask him to make certain improvements, which he did. Things really started falling apart after we actually had DC and he realized he didn't actually want more kids after all.

It is what it is. Yes, in hindsight, I should have just moved on rather than believe him. But it's too late now. I don't beat myself up over his decision to mislead me, that's on him.

When my ex didn’t pay child support I made sure everyone, yes including his at the time current live in love, his family, and friends. When that didn’t work I wrecked his credit, took his passport, etc., and if he had property that could be it had a lien on it.

I find it really hard to believe you had no idea if you got close enough to marry him. We see what we want to see.

The best advice you can give a younger woman is don’t be so desperate for anything that will have you, that you fail to really see a man’s character.

Ask for a copy of his credit report, chid support isn’t fun, but not paying it isn’t the same as forgetting to pay the water bill. One is absent minded the other is a lack of character.

if he has kids already, and you chose to get involved anyway you had no excuse, you weren’t duped you were an idiot. You can’t hide easily verifiable things like not paying support or being there for your kids.

Does he put their needs before yours. If not that’s a lack of character. If you married or dated him thinking “he loves me so much he even puts me before his children” then you have low self esteem and lack character.

If he’s been married twice already, and already has 2 sets of kids of course he can’t make time for them, iif he has time to date then he’s not making time for his kids because you can’t be in 3 places at once. Also he’s a moron who can’t manage adulting because who consistently makes such careless and reckless decisions. It’s not cute it’s stupid.

You’d have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think the 3rd time is the charm. No the 3rd woman who steps up to that plate just proves there is a sucker born every minute.

Best advice be wary of a divorced man, if he’s been divorced more than once, easy, run in the opposite direction. No excuses.

If only divorced once give him a chance but talk to the ex, if she’s still mad, after a few years there’s probably a good reason and it probably involves money and his not sharing the child rearing load.

Get to know his friends and family. A man who walks away from his kids isn’t just bad in one way, he’s usually bad in a lot of ways and there is always at least a few who will be honest with you.

No doubt you and your kids got burned and that sucks, but if you are going to give advice, start with check his references and his credit report before you have mind blowing intimacy.

And easiest advice of all if he’s been married twice already, danger, danger, abort, abort. Abandon mission and run the opposite way.

You sound psychotic. You know it’s illegal to take someone’s passport?

Nope. Men need to support the children they create. It's 100% LEGAL for the court to take away someones passport if they refuse to support their children. If you have money to travel you have money to support your children.

States will also execute people, but that doesn't make it legal for you to kill someone.

... Do you actually believe that she physically took his passport and hid it in her sock drawer? Clearly she went to court to get all of these things done. Or do you also believe that she wrote to his credit company to ruin his credit or physically "leaned" on his home? You aren't the brightest. These are the options available when parents don't comply. Men could easily do this if they cared at all about their own children. That's just too much effort tho amirite?! Pesky children getting in the way of buying property and travelling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this just shows how little how you or the men in your life care about their kids.

"What Happens if a Mother Refuses Access?
If there’s a court order granting visitation and the mother refuses to comply, she could face legal consequences. The father can go back to court and file a motion to enforce visitation. If she continues to block access, she could be found in contempt of court, which might lead to fines or other penalties. In some cases, a judge could even modify custody arrangements in favor of the father."

So instead of whining and complaining about their ex on the internet, they could have been doing the work and getting even more custody. Oh wait, it's working exactly as planned because these men didn't even want custody in the first place.

She "can" face legal consequences but likely she won't. Most often the result of a woman ignoring a court order is, you drag her back to court, and the judge issues another court order which she ignores. The judge is not going to award the father custody unless it's an extreme and provable case of the mom being unfit. Very rare.

And when push comes to shove, most ex-husbands are very hesitant to have their ex-wives thrown in jail, because that will traumatize his kids no matter how much his XW deserved it.

None of this happened to you, because this is a crazy scenario. Stop talking mess and start talking facts, if you even have any. You sound paranoid and delusional, not to mention misogynist af.

I am not the PP but this is actually not a crazy scenario - I know someone living it right now. The mom is actively keeping the child from the dad. She is making false allegations against him, she pulled the child out of summer camp two weeks early, and has gone so far as to take the kid to another state for a month. Is that kidnapping? Yeah. Do you know how quickly a court does something about that? Not very. And frankly, the dad doesn't want to charge her with it because he cares enough to know that it's not good for their kid if one parent is convicted of a crime (although the mom doesn't feel this way so she's trying to press charges for things she has already said he didn't do). The legal system isn't quick, and when you're talking about an 8-year old, there's not a lot the kid can do to try to reach the dad either. His lawyers have advised him not to try to go get the kid because he needs to let the system work its way through things. I'd like to go kidnap the child myself and deliver her to her dad but obviously I wouldn't do that. You want more facts?

So he recognizes the danger, keeps his child in danger, and doesnt bother going to court to fight for his 8 year old? Yikes. Great parent.

Mom is at fault. Courts do nothing. Be real. What can he do?

News flash. It's not kidnaping if a parent takes their own child. No parent is going to jail for the crime of kidnapping if they take their kid to another state for a few weeks vacation and return. It is definitely a custody order violation, and would easily result in a change of custody if Dad took it to court.

The lawyers advice for the dad to work through the court is wise. Good custodial parents seek to avoid actually physical confrontation over the bodies of their kids.

I get really tired of whiny men who say they can't get custody. They can. They actually usually have an advantage if things go to court. (See published research on this by GW). The truth is they don't want to, and often it's a cover that enables their own failings. My ex could easily have had 50/50 custody if he filed in court for it. But, he would have risked me speaking in open court about his mental illness, his serial cheating, the times he left the kids alone, was drinking heavily while they were with him, etc. He preferred to look like the good dad who was screwed by his wife. I kept my mouth shut and didn't speak about all his craziness to any of our mutual friends (although all mine knew and my family as well.)

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this just shows how little how you or the men in your life care about their kids.

"What Happens if a Mother Refuses Access?
If there’s a court order granting visitation and the mother refuses to comply, she could face legal consequences. The father can go back to court and file a motion to enforce visitation. If she continues to block access, she could be found in contempt of court, which might lead to fines or other penalties. In some cases, a judge could even modify custody arrangements in favor of the father."

So instead of whining and complaining about their ex on the internet, they could have been doing the work and getting even more custody. Oh wait, it's working exactly as planned because these men didn't even want custody in the first place.

I am just one (there are multiple) posters arguing with you (I'm sure you'd like to think it's just one absent father but I'm a woman and at least some other posters have identified as women as well).

Of course a dad can fight a mom in court for custody. Do you have any idea how much time that can take? It's like you think the dad just calls the court at 2 pm when mom doesn't drop the kids off and by 2:30 he has them. That's not how it works. Some people abuse the system and don't comply with orders. Your black and white way of thinking is unhelpful but just goes to show how small-minded you are. Keep on preaching like you're some sort of feminist and won't apologize for men's bad behavior. No one arguing with you is doing that either. We're just saying you seem to have little grasp on what the world is really like.

Well kids are minors until they are 18. If you stop any time before that, you have given up on your children. That's no one elses fault.

Is your bf or dh one of these loser dead beats or something? Your rabid assertation that men can do nothing wrong and it's always a womans fault is getting bizarre.

I've never said men can do no wrong and it's always a woman's fault. Not once. I'll wait if you want to try to find it somewhere if you want.

You're the one making black and white assertions here, not me or any of the other people (including women) responding to your inane post. I'm happily married to the father of my children, who isn't remotely a deadbeat. But I've also lived enough to know that not everyone lives like me.

Good luck with your anger and your life. I can't help but wonder what someone has done to you.

Maybe I have experience with dead beats because I had one as a father. Maybe I have experience with children of dead beats because I volunteer with youth of a similar background. Maybe it's also why I advocate for people who want to be CF to be CF. So many people upset that people arent having as many children these days, but at least if they are born to loving parents who WANT to parent, there are less cases like this.

I've seen men fight the system and access their kids. I've seen more men drop off the face of the earth with no explanation.

Well at least you can explain (if not understand) your total bias here. No one has said dead beat dads don't exist. Not a single poster. Many have said there are more nuances to certain situations than you seem capable of grasping so perhaps you should check yourself and your judgment and realize that you don't know everything.

Sorry, there is no "nuance" in not paying child support. There is no "nuance" in not getting at least 25% custody to see your kids on a regular basis. Stop making excuses for why parents eschew their parental responsibilities and are deadbeats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this just shows how little how you or the men in your life care about their kids.

"What Happens if a Mother Refuses Access?
If there’s a court order granting visitation and the mother refuses to comply, she could face legal consequences. The father can go back to court and file a motion to enforce visitation. If she continues to block access, she could be found in contempt of court, which might lead to fines or other penalties. In some cases, a judge could even modify custody arrangements in favor of the father."

So instead of whining and complaining about their ex on the internet, they could have been doing the work and getting even more custody. Oh wait, it's working exactly as planned because these men didn't even want custody in the first place.

She "can" face legal consequences but likely she won't. Most often the result of a woman ignoring a court order is, you drag her back to court, and the judge issues another court order which she ignores. The judge is not going to award the father custody unless it's an extreme and provable case of the mom being unfit. Very rare.

And when push comes to shove, most ex-husbands are very hesitant to have their ex-wives thrown in jail, because that will traumatize his kids no matter how much his XW deserved it.

None of this happened to you, because this is a crazy scenario. Stop talking mess and start talking facts, if you even have any. You sound paranoid and delusional, not to mention misogynist af.

I am not the PP but this is actually not a crazy scenario - I know someone living it right now. The mom is actively keeping the child from the dad. She is making false allegations against him, she pulled the child out of summer camp two weeks early, and has gone so far as to take the kid to another state for a month. Is that kidnapping? Yeah. Do you know how quickly a court does something about that? Not very. And frankly, the dad doesn't want to charge her with it because he cares enough to know that it's not good for their kid if one parent is convicted of a crime (although the mom doesn't feel this way so she's trying to press charges for things she has already said he didn't do). The legal system isn't quick, and when you're talking about an 8-year old, there's not a lot the kid can do to try to reach the dad either. His lawyers have advised him not to try to go get the kid because he needs to let the system work its way through things. I'd like to go kidnap the child myself and deliver her to her dad but obviously I wouldn't do that. You want more facts?

So he recognizes the danger, keeps his child in danger, and doesnt bother going to court to fight for his 8 year old? Yikes. Great parent.

Mom is at fault. Courts do nothing. Be real. What can he do?

He is lying to you and you are gullible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question about the men who do this and then launch new families with a younger woman. Do those stick or do they end up walking away from those too?

I’m the new wife (now ex-wife). I was actually wife #3. Yes, I was stupid, and yes, I should have known better.

He tried to stick it out because a third divorce and broken family looks bad, but even though he was physically in the home, mentally and emotionally he was completely checked out.

Reality is a lot of men simply don’t want families and go through with it because of pressure from society, peer groups, family, etc. In our case, I do believe he wanted companionship, and he only went through with marriage and kids because I was going to break up with him if he didn’t.

He moved about 10 minutes from me and we do 50/50 custody. I don’t know how he parents (DC is 3, so can’t communicate about xH’s parenting) and I don’t know if he’ll end up bailing like he did on his first two families. It would not surprise me if he did leave (with the first two he moved out of state “for work”), but I do think he’s a better father when he only has to be a father half the time and can spend the rest of the time on his hobbies, which aren’t very compatible with family life.

Even if he does stick around, I know he won’t be contributing to DC’s college fund or leaving any sort of inheritance. He is absolutely terrible with money and convinced his oldest child (23yo) not to go to college because he didn’t want to pay for it, which has of course ruined that child’s life and they bounce from minimum wage job to minimum wage job. He also never paid child support for any of his previous kids, even though he saw them only 1-2 times a year and their moms had full custody.

When younger women ask me for dating advice, I always tell them if a man is an even the slightest bit hesitant at the idea of marriage and kids, dump him. Don’t try to convince him. Don’t issue ultimatums. Don’t believe them when you dump them and they come crawling, swearing they changed their mind. They didn’t. They just don’t want to be alone.

I am so curious how he managed to get you to marry him. Did he just conceal all of this?

Honestly, I'm baffled myself how I fell for it. My self-esteem is great. What I think happened:

1. He actually did years of therapy and knew all the right things to say. I do believe on some level he wanted to change. But all therapy really did was give him a bunch of buzzwords to make it sound like he had changed. However, since he did therapy before we met and throughout the duration of our relationship, I took that as a sign he was committed, was improving, and was serious about me.

2. We had intense physical chemistry. I'm not usually a slave to pheromones or my hormones, but yowza. Hard to explain if you haven't experienced that yourself.

3. We had a ton in common, more than I'd had with anyone prior. We actually made great friends, and everyone always says to marry your best friend.

4. I actually did break up with him multiple times over the fact that I wanted marriage & kids, and he didn't. I'd end things cordially, saying what we wanted wasn't in alignment, he'd come crawling to me a couple weeks/months later saying he'd been reflecting on it, talking to his therapist, etc, and realized he actually did want to get married and have a family. And he *would* follow through on whatever he promised.

I also think a lot is messaging from the media and pop culture that if a man wants you, he will change for you. I've since learned that no, people don't ever actually change. They may try, they may seem to, but you can't undo decades of habits and patterns.

So you never said something like "Okay, if you're so committed to improving, start paying your child support" and then waited to see if he did it?

PP. I actually didn't know he didn't pay child support until near the end of our marriage. He was pocketing the money he said was for child support.

I did ask him to make certain improvements, which he did. Things really started falling apart after we actually had DC and he realized he didn't actually want more kids after all.

It is what it is. Yes, in hindsight, I should have just moved on rather than believe him. But it's too late now. I don't beat myself up over his decision to mislead me, that's on him.

When my ex didn’t pay child support I made sure everyone, yes including his at the time current live in love, his family, and friends. When that didn’t work I wrecked his credit, took his passport, etc., and if he had property that could be it had a lien on it.

I find it really hard to believe you had no idea if you got close enough to marry him. We see what we want to see.

The best advice you can give a younger woman is don’t be so desperate for anything that will have you, that you fail to really see a man’s character.

Ask for a copy of his credit report, chid support isn’t fun, but not paying it isn’t the same as forgetting to pay the water bill. One is absent minded the other is a lack of character.

if he has kids already, and you chose to get involved anyway you had no excuse, you weren’t duped you were an idiot. You can’t hide easily verifiable things like not paying support or being there for your kids.

Does he put their needs before yours. If not that’s a lack of character. If you married or dated him thinking “he loves me so much he even puts me before his children” then you have low self esteem and lack character.

If he’s been married twice already, and already has 2 sets of kids of course he can’t make time for them, iif he has time to date then he’s not making time for his kids because you can’t be in 3 places at once. Also he’s a moron who can’t manage adulting because who consistently makes such careless and reckless decisions. It’s not cute it’s stupid.

You’d have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think the 3rd time is the charm. No the 3rd woman who steps up to that plate just proves there is a sucker born every minute.

Best advice be wary of a divorced man, if he’s been divorced more than once, easy, run in the opposite direction. No excuses.

If only divorced once give him a chance but talk to the ex, if she’s still mad, after a few years there’s probably a good reason and it probably involves money and his not sharing the child rearing load.

Get to know his friends and family. A man who walks away from his kids isn’t just bad in one way, he’s usually bad in a lot of ways and there is always at least a few who will be honest with you.

No doubt you and your kids got burned and that sucks, but if you are going to give advice, start with check his references and his credit report before you have mind blowing intimacy.

And easiest advice of all if he’s been married twice already, danger, danger, abort, abort. Abandon mission and run the opposite way.

I honestly do not understand how my ex got wife #2 on the hook. There were so many red flags. His relationship with wife #2 ended and within 6 months, he had already introduced a new girlfriend to his young adult kids on a family vacation (which was the first time he had seen them in 6 months).

They always have a story and an explanation. Previous wife was crazy and he just tried SO HARD to make it work. Gosh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question about the men who do this and then launch new families with a younger woman. Do those stick or do they end up walking away from those too?

I’m the new wife (now ex-wife). I was actually wife #3. Yes, I was stupid, and yes, I should have known better.

He tried to stick it out because a third divorce and broken family looks bad, but even though he was physically in the home, mentally and emotionally he was completely checked out.

Reality is a lot of men simply don’t want families and go through with it because of pressure from society, peer groups, family, etc. In our case, I do believe he wanted companionship, and he only went through with marriage and kids because I was going to break up with him if he didn’t.

He moved about 10 minutes from me and we do 50/50 custody. I don’t know how he parents (DC is 3, so can’t communicate about xH’s parenting) and I don’t know if he’ll end up bailing like he did on his first two families. It would not surprise me if he did leave (with the first two he moved out of state “for work”), but I do think he’s a better father when he only has to be a father half the time and can spend the rest of the time on his hobbies, which aren’t very compatible with family life.

Even if he does stick around, I know he won’t be contributing to DC’s college fund or leaving any sort of inheritance. He is absolutely terrible with money and convinced his oldest child (23yo) not to go to college because he didn’t want to pay for it, which has of course ruined that child’s life and they bounce from minimum wage job to minimum wage job. He also never paid child support for any of his previous kids, even though he saw them only 1-2 times a year and their moms had full custody.

When younger women ask me for dating advice, I always tell them if a man is an even the slightest bit hesitant at the idea of marriage and kids, dump him. Don’t try to convince him. Don’t issue ultimatums. Don’t believe them when you dump them and they come crawling, swearing they changed their mind. They didn’t. They just don’t want to be alone.

I am so curious how he managed to get you to marry him. Did he just conceal all of this?

Honestly, I'm baffled myself how I fell for it. My self-esteem is great. What I think happened:

1. He actually did years of therapy and knew all the right things to say. I do believe on some level he wanted to change. But all therapy really did was give him a bunch of buzzwords to make it sound like he had changed. However, since he did therapy before we met and throughout the duration of our relationship, I took that as a sign he was committed, was improving, and was serious about me.

2. We had intense physical chemistry. I'm not usually a slave to pheromones or my hormones, but yowza. Hard to explain if you haven't experienced that yourself.

3. We had a ton in common, more than I'd had with anyone prior. We actually made great friends, and everyone always says to marry your best friend.

4. I actually did break up with him multiple times over the fact that I wanted marriage & kids, and he didn't. I'd end things cordially, saying what we wanted wasn't in alignment, he'd come crawling to me a couple weeks/months later saying he'd been reflecting on it, talking to his therapist, etc, and realized he actually did want to get married and have a family. And he *would* follow through on whatever he promised.

I also think a lot is messaging from the media and pop culture that if a man wants you, he will change for you. I've since learned that no, people don't ever actually change. They may try, they may seem to, but you can't undo decades of habits and patterns.

So you never said something like "Okay, if you're so committed to improving, start paying your child support" and then waited to see if he did it?

PP. I actually didn't know he didn't pay child support until near the end of our marriage. He was pocketing the money he said was for child support.

I did ask him to make certain improvements, which he did. Things really started falling apart after we actually had DC and he realized he didn't actually want more kids after all.

It is what it is. Yes, in hindsight, I should have just moved on rather than believe him. But it's too late now. I don't beat myself up over his decision to mislead me, that's on him.

When my ex didn’t pay child support I made sure everyone, yes including his at the time current live in love, his family, and friends. When that didn’t work I wrecked his credit, took his passport, etc., and if he had property that could be it had a lien on it.

I find it really hard to believe you had no idea if you got close enough to marry him. We see what we want to see.

The best advice you can give a younger woman is don’t be so desperate for anything that will have you, that you fail to really see a man’s character.

Ask for a copy of his credit report, chid support isn’t fun, but not paying it isn’t the same as forgetting to pay the water bill. One is absent minded the other is a lack of character.

if he has kids already, and you chose to get involved anyway you had no excuse, you weren’t duped you were an idiot. You can’t hide easily verifiable things like not paying support or being there for your kids.

Does he put their needs before yours. If not that’s a lack of character. If you married or dated him thinking “he loves me so much he even puts me before his children” then you have low self esteem and lack character.

If he’s been married twice already, and already has 2 sets of kids of course he can’t make time for them, iif he has time to date then he’s not making time for his kids because you can’t be in 3 places at once. Also he’s a moron who can’t manage adulting because who consistently makes such careless and reckless decisions. It’s not cute it’s stupid.

You’d have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think the 3rd time is the charm. No the 3rd woman who steps up to that plate just proves there is a sucker born every minute.

Best advice be wary of a divorced man, if he’s been divorced more than once, easy, run in the opposite direction. No excuses.

If only divorced once give him a chance but talk to the ex, if she’s still mad, after a few years there’s probably a good reason and it probably involves money and his not sharing the child rearing load.

Get to know his friends and family. A man who walks away from his kids isn’t just bad in one way, he’s usually bad in a lot of ways and there is always at least a few who will be honest with you.

No doubt you and your kids got burned and that sucks, but if you are going to give advice, start with check his references and his credit report before you have mind blowing intimacy.

And easiest advice of all if he’s been married twice already, danger, danger, abort, abort. Abandon mission and run the opposite way.

You sound psychotic. You know it’s illegal to take someone’s passport?

If you owe a lot of child support, your passport can get taken away. Obviously that's what she's talking about,

+1. and your driver's license and any other license issued by the state is revoked or on hold until you at least start making payments. BUT this is a actually hard process for the custodial parent to actually get the courts to enforce. It takes a lot of time and legal fees to do this, on top of already being a financially stretched single parent. It sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My exBIL abandoned his first family and then his ex wife took his children and moved states away. Fast forward to my sister marrying this dude and she believed him when he said his ex wife was crazy. That was until my sister became crazy ex wife #2 after he abandoned her and their children.

Deadbeats are exceptionally good at lying about the "crazy", controlling, mean, entitled, etc ex wives. Yet, somehow they then trust these same "crazy" ex-wives with completely raising their children who they "love so much". They get proficient at "playing the victim". Wake up ladies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously really bad for society in many ways- bad for families, bad for the children involved, bad for the second set of kids, just generally destructive of family life. It also messes with the dating pool and is damaging for women in general.

So I'm not sure why it's not more openly condemned or talked about. I guess since most media and public outlets are controlled by older men.

It's interesting to me that with all the talk about traditional families and conservative culture now, people don't talk about this more. Maybe young conservative women are content to marry middle-aged men on their second or third families? But men leaving their families to start a second family is pretty high on the list of societal dysfunction.

It is not talked about for several reasons. The first of which is that our society prioritizes freedom and choice above almost all else, especially responsibility and tradition. The second of which is that the concept that marriage is between one man and one woman is also viewed as outdated, old-fashioned, and an outdated relic of Christian morality. The third of which is that it is a currently popular espoused belief among elites that all different types of family structures are equally good for raising children.

It would be better for kids if poly marriages were legalized and men allowed to host 2 families in the same house. And obligated to take care of kids (minimum college costs, as in Germany for example).

hahahaha. Honestly, I love how DCUM has all kinds of abusers who try to promote their abusive reality. It's crazy to me. The idea that marriage is between two people (whether hetero or homosexual) is not outdated at all. It is the belief of the vast majority of Americans - even many Muslims whose religion might otherwise permit multiple wives. But, nice try associating monogamous marriage strictly with Christian morality.

No, it would not be better for kids if poly marriages were legalized. Because the truth is that women do not want to live in poly-marriages and raise kids with another woman. And men already can't support the limited number of children that they had with wife number 1, so more children isn't the solution, it's the problem. The man can't support 2 kids with the old wife and 2 kids with the new wife, so since he's with the new wife, he supports the two kids with her and looks like a good dad and hero to her and her circle, and just ignores how terribly he abdicated his responsibility with the first two.

There are a bunch of them in Utah.