Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This dude was off his rocker screaming at and assaulting people in NYC for the better part of a decade. His MJ routine is from years ago when he wasn’t as delusional or violent. It’s a shame these people aren’t locked up or institutionalized where they won’t be a threat to themselves or others but he was a ticking time bomb and finally met his match.

He should have been in jail after assaulting the 67 year old woman. Then none of this would have happened.

So his death is the fault of NY and the failure of the justice system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This dude was off his rocker screaming at and assaulting people in NYC for the better part of a decade. His MJ routine is from years ago when he wasn’t as delusional or violent. It’s a shame these people aren’t locked up or institutionalized where they won’t be a threat to themselves or others but he was a ticking time bomb and finally met his match.

Yep. And apparently he has 40+ charges against him from prior arrests mostly assaults.

And the video shows 3 unrelated people appreehending him, so you coukd soeculate all 3 (independently) felt threatened enough that they took action before they became a victim.

[Anonymous]

This country is never knowing how to deal with. It's mentally or physically disabled. Healthcare system for them is a joke. And now it's illegal to have people in institutional type settings.... You can thank Congress and Obama for that.

Actually, you can thank Ronald Reagan and the ACLU. The individual liberties folks teamed up with the "cut government spending" Republicans in the 70s and 80s and shut down all the mental institutions. And no doubt, the mental institutions at that time were snake pits. But there must be some intermediate way of humanely confining and treating the severely mentally ill.

I don't think that the people in that subway car should be blamed for their reaction. But we should collectively blame ourselves as a society for not being willing to fund (on the right) or consent to (on the left) mental health and criminal justice policies that would've prevented this from happening.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I don’t really care to “understand schizophrenia”. Only so much time in a day, and only so many years on earth. These people are a lost cause and should be locked away. Fed, clothed, kept reasonably comfortable, but that’s it. It’s unfortunate, but I care more about the rest of society—orderly, law abiding, functioning people—than affording these people so much latitude that they impose their misery on everyone else.

There are a great many people who feel this way in America. There are a great many who feel compassion but make little to no effort to change social policies, including investment of tax funds, toward really helping the least of us.

I would bet that the person who made the quoted comments considers themselves a good Christian. Certainly many who do have the same attitude towards the least of us. Real Christianity seems quite dead in America which is probably why we have become a culture where every single day there is a new mass shooting in the news and something like 150,000 deaths of despair (suicides, ODs, etc.) every year. Our country is a bleak place these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?

He didn’t do anything dangerous

How do you know? We’re you there?

Witnesses in news reports say his behavior was erratic, saying he didn't have food, but that he wasn't threatening to assault anyone, and he didn't assault anyone.

He got into a verbal altercation with Marine, which led to physical. If the Marine had not engaged (just ignore, like everyone else), the mentally ill man would have just continued to be annoying.

Apparently another man got onto the train and told Marine to back off if he didn't want to face murder charge.

I think the Marine was being macho. No lives were in danger. He was not protecting anyone. He was probably annoyed and irritated by the erratic behavior. He wanted to stop it.

So everyone is supposed to assume that someone who is being aggressive is (i) mentally ill and (ii) harmless? Sorry, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This country is never knowing how to deal with. It's mentally or physically disabled. Healthcare system for them is a joke. And now it's illegal to have people in institutional type settings.... You can thank Congress and Obama for that.

Actually, you can thank Ronald Reagan and the ACLU. The individual liberties folks teamed up with the "cut government spending" Republicans in the 70s and 80s and shut down all the mental institutions. And no doubt, the mental institutions at that time were snake pits. But there must be some intermediate way of humanely confining and treating the severely mentally ill.

I don't think that the people in that subway car should be blamed for their reaction. But we should collectively blame ourselves as a society for not being willing to fund (on the right) or consent to (on the left) mental health and criminal justice policies that would've prevented this from happening.

I was JUST saying this to my friend this morning. Left and right are both horrible on this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This country is never knowing how to deal with. It's mentally or physically disabled. Healthcare system for them is a joke. And now it's illegal to have people in institutional type settings.... You can thank Congress and Obama for that.

Actually, you can thank Ronald Reagan and the ACLU. The individual liberties folks teamed up with the "cut government spending" Republicans in the 70s and 80s and shut down all the mental institutions. And no doubt, the mental institutions at that time were snake pits. But there must be some intermediate way of humanely confining and treating the severely mentally ill.

I don't think that the people in that subway car should be blamed for their reaction. But we should collectively blame ourselves as a society for not being willing to fund (on the right) or consent to (on the left) mental health and criminal justice policies that would've prevented this from happening.

I was JUST saying this to my friend this morning. Left and right are both horrible on this stuff.

Absolutely. There are no heroes here, including the self-righteous mob judging on man's actions that resulted in a tragic loss of life while downplaying the years of trauma and hardship that the victim endured. I would also include the self-righteous New Yorkers whose answer to safety concerns about metally unstable people is to simply change cars or move away. I'm not sure that treating fellow human beings as though they don't exist and looking away from their hardship in a daily basis is the moral highground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?

He didn’t do anything dangerous

How do you know? We’re you there?

There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming.

This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?

Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I have read a number of articles about this and watched an interview with the man who took the video. In his interview (in Spanish with a translator), he did note that the man had not assaulted anyone (although you could argue that throwing trash at people might be assault). The witness did, however, note that he was frightened by the man. He also said, in a comment that I found very telling, that if the police had come five minutes earlier, the marine would have been hailed as a hero. I think the fact that two other men were helping the marine subdue the man speaks to the fact that they genuinely viewed his behavior as a threat.

Of course whether they went too far is the question, and it sounds like the force used was excessive.

I ride the NY subway every day, and encounter loud, erratically behaving people regularly. If I deem one of them to be an actual potential threat (and the vast majority are not), I move further down the car, or switch cars. Removing oneself from the threat is the appropriate, and usual, tactic.

dp.. you think every single person in that car should've moved?

PP of the post you’re responding to. Yes, this happens all the time. There are cars every day with one or few people in them. You get on a car, it smells like vomit or shit, you move. You get on a car, there’s a crazy person who you’re uncomfortable with, you move. What you don’t do is kill that person. That’s not something that happens every day, nor should it.

This is such a false choice. There is absolutely no obligation to move, and the suggestion that the Marine was somehow the instigator because he didn't flee the car is, frankly, absurd.

There are legitimate questions regarding the amount of force used, and they should of course be explored. But to pose this as a choice between flee the car or kill someone is deeply disingenuous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, I don’t really care to “understand schizophrenia”. Only so much time in a day, and only so many years on earth. These people are a lost cause and should be locked away. Fed, clothed, kept reasonably comfortable, but that’s it. It’s unfortunate, but I care more about the rest of society—orderly, law abiding, functioning people—than affording these people so much latitude that they impose their misery on everyone else.

There are a great many people who feel this way in America. There are a great many who feel compassion but make little to no effort to change social policies, including investment of tax funds, toward really helping the least of us.

I would bet that the person who made the quoted comments considers themselves a good Christian. Certainly many who do have the same attitude towards the least of us. Real Christianity seems quite dead in America which is probably why we have become a culture where every single day there is a new mass shooting in the news and something like 150,000 deaths of despair (suicides, ODs, etc.) every year. Our country is a bleak place these days.

I appreciate what you are saying, but what do you do with someone who is offered help, but refuses it? There are many charities and programs to help people who need help. I, and many on this board contribute and volunteer for such. What about when the person is also mentally unstable and prone to violence? What many on this board are saying is that such people deserve our sympathy but not our tolerance. We need to think about the victims they create and the trauma they inflict on others.

That crazy man was about to inflict trauma on the passengers of that car. That marine did what he did to prevent that. We should not punish him for it.

[Anonymous]

Guy should not have been on the street in the first place with all his priors. Assault, threats to injure including threatening to kill his own grandfather and admitting he is off his meds. He may be mentally ill but chose not to take the meds needed. It’s unfortunate that he died. How often can you poke a bear without consequences?

[Anonymous]

This is what we deal with on the Metro here in LA! Likely not that different than what NYC metro riders likely deal with too. Or do people just need to wait around until the machete comes out? Me thinks it's too late by then but what do I know....

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/man-files-claim-against-la-after-machete-attack-at-metro-station/3141889/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, I don’t really care to “understand schizophrenia”. Only so much time in a day, and only so many years on earth. These people are a lost cause and should be locked away. Fed, clothed, kept reasonably comfortable, but that’s it. It’s unfortunate, but I care more about the rest of society—orderly, law abiding, functioning people—than affording these people so much latitude that they impose their misery on everyone else.

There are a great many people who feel this way in America. There are a great many who feel compassion but make little to no effort to change social policies, including investment of tax funds, toward really helping the least of us.

I would bet that the person who made the quoted comments considers themselves a good Christian. Certainly many who do have the same attitude towards the least of us. Real Christianity seems quite dead in America which is probably why we have become a culture where every single day there is a new mass shooting in the news and something like 150,000 deaths of despair (suicides, ODs, etc.) every year. Our country is a bleak place these days.

is it Christian to leave homeless mentally ill people on the streets, to freeze to death, die in fires in encampments, be preyed on by other mentally ill people, decompensate threateningly in public so that the threatened people rationally respond with violence?

gtfo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?

He didn’t do anything dangerous

How do you know? We’re you there?

There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming.

This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?

Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I have read a number of articles about this and watched an interview with the man who took the video. In his interview (in Spanish with a translator), he did note that the man had not assaulted anyone (although you could argue that throwing trash at people might be assault). The witness did, however, note that he was frightened by the man. He also said, in a comment that I found very telling, that if the police had come five minutes earlier, the marine would have been hailed as a hero. I think the fact that two other men were helping the marine subdue the man speaks to the fact that they genuinely viewed his behavior as a threat.

Of course whether they went too far is the question, and it sounds like the force used was excessive.

I ride the NY subway every day, and encounter loud, erratically behaving people regularly. If I deem one of them to be an actual potential threat (and the vast majority are not), I move further down the car, or switch cars. Removing oneself from the threat is the appropriate, and usual, tactic.

dp.. you think every single person in that car should've moved?

PP of the post you’re responding to. Yes, this happens all the time. There are cars every day with one or few people in them. You get on a car, it smells like vomit or shit, you move. You get on a car, there’s a crazy person who you’re uncomfortable with, you move. What you don’t do is kill that person. That’s not something that happens every day, nor should it.

This is such a false choice. There is absolutely no obligation to move, and the suggestion that the Marine was somehow the instigator because he didn't flee the car is, frankly, absurd.

There are legitimate questions regarding the amount of force used, and they should of course be explored. But to pose this as a choice between flee the car or kill someone is deeply disingenuous.

So, do you live in New York? Do you ride the subway regularly? If not, I respectfully suggest that you don't have much experience with this. If people on the subway began to confront everyone acting erratically, they'd have to hire more cleaners to mop up the blood and guts.

[Anonymous]

We need to rethink institutionalization and mandated medication

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?

He didn’t do anything dangerous

How do you know? We’re you there?

There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming.

This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?

Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I have read a number of articles about this and watched an interview with the man who took the video. In his interview (in Spanish with a translator), he did note that the man had not assaulted anyone (although you could argue that throwing trash at people might be assault). The witness did, however, note that he was frightened by the man. He also said, in a comment that I found very telling, that if the police had come five minutes earlier, the marine would have been hailed as a hero. I think the fact that two other men were helping the marine subdue the man speaks to the fact that they genuinely viewed his behavior as a threat.

Of course whether they went too far is the question, and it sounds like the force used was excessive.

I ride the NY subway every day, and encounter loud, erratically behaving people regularly. If I deem one of them to be an actual potential threat (and the vast majority are not), I move further down the car, or switch cars. Removing oneself from the threat is the appropriate, and usual, tactic.

dp.. you think every single person in that car should've moved?

PP of the post you’re responding to. Yes, this happens all the time. There are cars every day with one or few people in them. You get on a car, it smells like vomit or shit, you move. You get on a car, there’s a crazy person who you’re uncomfortable with, you move. What you don’t do is kill that person. That’s not something that happens every day, nor should it.

This is such a false choice. There is absolutely no obligation to move, and the suggestion that the Marine was somehow the instigator because he didn't flee the car is, frankly, absurd.

There are legitimate questions regarding the amount of force used, and they should of course be explored. But to pose this as a choice between flee the car or kill someone is deeply disingenuous.

So, do you live in New York? Do you ride the subway regularly? If not, I respectfully suggest that you don't have much experience with this. If people on the subway began to confront everyone acting erratically, they'd have to hire more cleaners to mop up the blood and guts.

He wasn't acting erratically - he was being aggressive and threatening, at least according to witnesses. Have you seen the screenshot of a Reddit post from nine years ago, where a New Yorker cautions others that the guy who had been regularly working as a Michael Jackson impersonator had changed into an angry "maniac." The poster recounted an experience with Neely when he was afraid to get on the same subway car as Neely because he was so unhinged, and said that he was worried for the safety of those who did. The guy was not simply yelling or ranting but was violently aggressive. I guess that guy wasn't a real New Yorker under your standards.