Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas

[Anonymous]

It used to be that whites used to be overwhelmingly opposed to affirmative action because they thought they were being disadvantaged against AA and hispanics. Now they realize that they're actually being helped by affirmative action because they are taking the spots of asians who are more qualified than them. So now whites are overwhelmingly supportive of affirmative action. How funny. Years ago, there used to be arguments made that it was time to get rid of affirmative action because equality has evolved long enough that all races are at an even playing field. But then I read an essay that said affirmative action will never go away once whites realize that getting rid of it will not help them but will help asians instead. How right he was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It used to be that whites used to be overwhelmingly opposed to affirmative action because they thought they were being disadvantaged against AA and hispanics. Now they realize that they're actually being helped by affirmative action because they are taking the spots of asians who are more qualified than them. So now whites are overwhelmingly supportive of affirmative action. How funny. Years ago, there used to be arguments made that it was time to get rid of affirmative action because equality has evolved long enough that all races are at an even playing field. But then I read an essay that said affirmative action will never go away once whites realize that getting rid of it will not help them but will help asians instead. How right he was.

Amen to that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It used to be that whites used to be overwhelmingly opposed to affirmative action because they thought they were being disadvantaged against AA and hispanics. Now they realize that they're actually being helped by affirmative action because they are taking the spots of asians who are more qualified than them. So now whites are overwhelmingly supportive of affirmative action. How funny. Years ago, there used to be arguments made that it was time to get rid of affirmative action because equality has evolved long enough that all races are at an even playing field. But then I read an essay that said affirmative action will never go away once whites realize that getting rid of it will not help them but will help asians instead. How right he was.

I'd love to see any real data on this. I and everybody else I know either 1. Supports AA because they think it's righting historical wrongs or 2. Wants all race based considerations removed. I've yet to run into a white person who wants AA so they can keep out Asians. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I don't think it's at all common. I'm 100% in support of removing race based AA; if my white child is denied entrance at some school because of that then she should have studied harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It used to be that whites used to be overwhelmingly opposed to affirmative action because they thought they were being disadvantaged against AA and hispanics. Now they realize that they're actually being helped by affirmative action because they are taking the spots of asians who are more qualified than them. So now whites are overwhelmingly supportive of affirmative action. How funny. Years ago, there used to be arguments made that it was time to get rid of affirmative action because equality has evolved long enough that all races are at an even playing field. But then I read an essay that said affirmative action will never go away once whites realize that getting rid of it will not help them but will help asians instead. How right he was.

Kind of broad-brush statements to be making about ALL whites. Before the Asian Americans boomed as a demographic and competition against each other intensified, you didn't hear much complaining about the benefits they got from affirmative action, which, let's face it, was set up to help rectify wrongs that held back and entire ethnic group (African Americans), not to assist other groups that were in many cases not similarly disadvantaged and perfectly able to qualify on merit.

BTW, affirmative action doesn't just affect college admission, do Asians feel similarly affronted by its impact on them in the workplace or job market? Are their lawsuits there? And if not, why not, since these high performing Asian Americans would seemingly be competing against a higher proportion of Asians and have to work much harder than whites to get a good job. Seems to me this is where the argument falls apart. As a PP has noted, there's too much wanting admission to our elite colleges to be like a Chinese gaokao -- having all the right numbers (whether it's test scores, or now that folks have clued in, number and rank of ECs.} This is lockstep drive for a credential that has been deemed of overarching importance to cultures that value education. To each his own, but at the end of the day we are arguing at the margins. All of these schools are only so big and every year turn away thousands of qualified kids of all ethnicities. Short of documentation or real evidence to support a quota designed to limit Asians at these schools (as opposed to suppositions based on what was done in the past or a gripe that the total number of Asians should be larger because there are so many in the world ) this seems like whining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It used to be that whites used to be overwhelmingly opposed to affirmative action because they thought they were being disadvantaged against AA and hispanics. Now they realize that they're actually being helped by affirmative action because they are taking the spots of asians who are more qualified than them. So now whites are overwhelmingly supportive of affirmative action. How funny. Years ago, there used to be arguments made that it was time to get rid of affirmative action because equality has evolved long enough that all races are at an even playing field. But then I read an essay that said affirmative action will never go away once whites realize that getting rid of it will not help them but will help asians instead. How right he was.

Kind of broad-brush statements to be making about ALL whites. Before the Asian Americans boomed as a demographic and competition against each other intensified, you didn't hear much complaining about the benefits they got from affirmative action, which, let's face it, was set up to help rectify wrongs that held back and entire ethnic group (African Americans), not to assist other groups that were in many cases not similarly disadvantaged and perfectly able to qualify on merit.

BTW, affirmative action doesn't just affect college admission, do Asians feel similarly affronted by its impact on them in the workplace or job market? Are their lawsuits there? And if not, why not, since these high performing Asian Americans would seemingly be competing against a higher proportion of Asians and have to work much harder than whites to get a good job. Seems to me this is where the argument falls apart. As a PP has noted, there's too much wanting admission to our elite colleges to be like a Chinese gaokao -- having all the right numbers (whether it's test scores, or now that folks have clued in, number and rank of ECs.} This is lockstep drive for a credential that has been deemed of overarching importance to cultures that value education. To each his own, but at the end of the day we are arguing at the margins. All of these schools are only so big and every year turn away thousands of qualified kids of all ethnicities. Short of documentation or real evidence to support a quota designed to limit Asians at these schools (as opposed to suppositions based on what was done in the past or a gripe that the total number of Asians should be larger because there are so many in the world ) this seems like whining.

"First, no one is saying (certainly not most Asian Americans) U.S. college admissions is or should be equivalent to "gaokao". This is your first confusion. Most Asian Americans are perfectly willing and able to comply with the rules and requirements of the U.S. college admissions system. Asian Americans are not saying "testing is everything". That is often alleged by non-Asian Americans who want to perpetuate the stereotype of Asian Americans and portray Asian Americans as one-dimensional. This is offensive as saying blacks are not intelligent or Hispanics are lazy. Any stereotyping of races should not be tolerated. Your entire argument assumes Asian Americans only regard testing as important and that they only excel with tests and that is simply not true and also offensive as noted earlier.

I am fed up with those claiming to be Asian Americans who display the attitude that since I already attended Ivy League school and have "Ivy degrees" hell with all the other Asian Americans and that any allegation of discrimination is whining. You simply cannot say there is no race based quotas just because you have two Ivy degrees. All the historical evidence points to a cap on Asian acceptances. Obviously, a college will not circulate a written memo stating they have a "quota" on Asian acceptances but they can certainly have an understanding what the rough percentage would be for Asian acceptances. In addition, Asian Americans should fight discrimination in all major areas and college admissions is a prominent area where discrimination should not be tolerated. Good education plays a major role in eventual success and accomplishment in general and many key/leadership positions in society appear to be closely connected to good/great education. In addition, precisely since there is a pervasive racial discrimination against Asian Americans in general, obtaining the best possible educational credentials is even more important compared to other races.

You are making blanket statements regarding Asians and Asian Americans when you say "it is pretty obvious that there are lots of students with good grades who test well, but have almost nothing else." "The profiles are often remarkably similar: math/science excellence, limited intellectual depth in literature and the arts,---" Maybe you have forgotten how it was before you earned your two "Ivy degrees". Maybe your two "Ivy degrees" have opened doors for you and you have done relatively well in your chosen field but try to imagine what could have happened if you were denied admissions to Ivy League schools and attended some typical state universities. Would you still say that Asian Americans are "whining" when you hear of racial dissemination against Asian Americans in college admissions? If you are really a "Chinese American" and not someone masquerading as Asian, can you honestly say that your kids will be treated equally with blacks, Hispanics and white applicants when they apply to Ivy League schools?

Let me point out few things that you may have forgotten thanks to your two "Ivy degrees". Asians tend to gravitate towards STEM fields because that is about the only area where there appears to be less discrimination against Asians in general. Whites tend to view Asians as "competent" engineers, computer programmer, scientists etc. but generally, that is not the case in non-STEM areas such as business management, law, media, entertainment, music, politics, national security, military etc. Another possible reason for choosing STEM field may be that if Asian is not very fluent with the English language, STEM field may be more attractive as well. I have seen plenty of Asian students active in all kinds of activities at my son's high school including debate, MUN, yearbook, school newspaper, volunteer activities, various team sports etc. You just cannot make blanket statements and promote stereotyping of Asian Americans. Shame on you for having the attitude that I got my Ivy degrees so hell with other Asians. College Admissions should be non-discriminatory, fair and transparent. There should not be racial balancing with something so fundamental and important as college educational opportunities.

Ivies are generally comprehensive research oriented national universities with the possible exception of 1 or 2 schools. In fact, Cornell, Princeton and Columbia have a major STEM presence and Harvard also has strong science programs, "School of Applied Science and Engineering" as well as premier Medical School and bioengineering program. It would be inaccurate to portray Ivy league schools as Liberal Arts Colleges.

Finally, Caltech may be primarily a STEM school but UC, Berkeley and UCLA certainly are not primarily tech schools and they seem to be doing fine not practicing racial preference or racial discrimination in college admissions. In fact, they also have good athletic programs as well as good philosophy, English etc. in addition to good science and tech programs."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It used to be that whites used to be overwhelmingly opposed to affirmative action because they thought they were being disadvantaged against AA and hispanics. Now they realize that they're actually being helped by affirmative action because they are taking the spots of asians who are more qualified than them. So now whites are overwhelmingly supportive of affirmative action. How funny. Years ago, there used to be arguments made that it was time to get rid of affirmative action because equality has evolved long enough that all races are at an even playing field. But then I read an essay that said affirmative action will never go away once whites realize that getting rid of it will not help them but will help asians instead. How right he was.

Kind of broad-brush statements to be making about ALL whites. Before the Asian Americans boomed as a demographic and competition against each other intensified, you didn't hear much complaining about the benefits they got from affirmative action, which, let's face it, was set up to help rectify wrongs that held back and entire ethnic group (African Americans), not to assist other groups that were in many cases not similarly disadvantaged and perfectly able to qualify on merit.

BTW, affirmative action doesn't just affect college admission, do Asians feel similarly affronted by its impact on them in the workplace or job market? Are their lawsuits there? And if not, why not, since these high performing Asian Americans would seemingly be competing against a higher proportion of Asians and have to work much harder than whites to get a good job. Seems to me this is where the argument falls apart. As a PP has noted, there's too much wanting admission to our elite colleges to be like a Chinese gaokao -- having all the right numbers (whether it's test scores, or now that folks have clued in, number and rank of ECs.} This is lockstep drive for a credential that has been deemed of overarching importance to cultures that value education. To each his own, but at the end of the day we are arguing at the margins. All of these schools are only so big and every year turn away thousands of qualified kids of all ethnicities. Short of documentation or real evidence to support a quota designed to limit Asians at these schools (as opposed to suppositions based on what was done in the past or a gripe that the total number of Asians should be larger because there are so many in the world ) this seems like whining.

"First, no one is saying (certainly not most Asian Americans) U.S. college admissions is or should be equivalent to "gaokao". This is your first confusion. Most Asian Americans are perfectly willing and able to comply with the rules and requirements of the U.S. college admissions system. Asian Americans are not saying "testing is everything". That is often alleged by non-Asian Americans who want to perpetuate the stereotype of Asian Americans and portray Asian Americans as one-dimensional. This is offensive as saying blacks are not intelligent or Hispanics are lazy. Any stereotyping of races should not be tolerated. Your entire argument assumes Asian Americans only regard testing as important and that they only excel with tests and that is simply not true and also offensive as noted earlier.

I am fed up with those claiming to be Asian Americans who display the attitude that since I already attended Ivy League school and have "Ivy degrees" hell with all the other Asian Americans and that any allegation of discrimination is whining. You simply cannot say there is no race based quotas just because you have two Ivy degrees. All the historical evidence points to a cap on Asian acceptances. Obviously, a college will not circulate a written memo stating they have a "quota" on Asian acceptances but they can certainly have an understanding what the rough percentage would be for Asian acceptances. In addition, Asian Americans should fight discrimination in all major areas and college admissions is a prominent area where discrimination should not be tolerated. Good education plays a major role in eventual success and accomplishment in general and many key/leadership positions in society appear to be closely connected to good/great education. In addition, precisely since there is a pervasive racial discrimination against Asian Americans in general, obtaining the best possible educational credentials is even more important compared to other races.

You are making blanket statements regarding Asians and Asian Americans when you say "it is pretty obvious that there are lots of students with good grades who test well, but have almost nothing else." "The profiles are often remarkably similar: math/science excellence, limited intellectual depth in literature and the arts,---" Maybe you have forgotten how it was before you earned your two "Ivy degrees". Maybe your two "Ivy degrees" have opened doors for you and you have done relatively well in your chosen field but try to imagine what could have happened if you were denied admissions to Ivy League schools and attended some typical state universities. Would you still say that Asian Americans are "whining" when you hear of racial dissemination against Asian Americans in college admissions? If you are really a "Chinese American" and not someone masquerading as Asian, can you honestly say that your kids will be treated equally with blacks, Hispanics and white applicants when they apply to Ivy League schools?

Let me point out few things that you may have forgotten thanks to your two "Ivy degrees". Asians tend to gravitate towards STEM fields because that is about the only area where there appears to be less discrimination against Asians in general. Whites tend to view Asians as "competent" engineers, computer programmer, scientists etc. but generally, that is not the case in non-STEM areas such as business management, law, media, entertainment, music, politics, national security, military etc. Another possible reason for choosing STEM field may be that if Asian is not very fluent with the English language, STEM field may be more attractive as well. I have seen plenty of Asian students active in all kinds of activities at my son's high school including debate, MUN, yearbook, school newspaper, volunteer activities, various team sports etc. You just cannot make blanket statements and promote stereotyping of Asian Americans. Shame on you for having the attitude that I got my Ivy degrees so hell with other Asians. College Admissions should be non-discriminatory, fair and transparent. There should not be racial balancing with something so fundamental and important as college educational opportunities.

Ivies are generally comprehensive research oriented national universities with the possible exception of 1 or 2 schools. In fact, Cornell, Princeton and Columbia have a major STEM presence and Harvard also has strong science programs, "School of Applied Science and Engineering" as well as premier Medical School and bioengineering program. It would be inaccurate to portray Ivy league schools as Liberal Arts Colleges.

Finally, Caltech may be primarily a STEM school but UC, Berkeley and UCLA certainly are not primarily tech schools and they seem to be doing fine not practicing racial preference or racial discrimination in college admissions. In fact, they also have good athletic programs as well as good philosophy, English etc. in addition to good science and tech programs."

+1000!
It's really not that hard to see the racial discrimination in Ivy college admission. People just keep finding (lame) excuses to continue their racism because they benefit from it.

[Anonymous]

Asian societies are among the most racist in the world and many Asian-Americans display the same attitudes in this country. And we're not talking about attitudes about quotas here; we're talking about people prepared to make sweeping statements about the inferiority of non-Asians.

Sorry, but I'd like to see less racism in Asian countries and among Asian-Americans in the states before I get too worked up over purported discrimination against Asians who are already over-represented in elite institutions of higher learning. As it is, it just seems like an attempt to grab control of American institutions that will only exacerbate current inequalities in our society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian societies are among the most racist in the world and many Asian-Americans display the same attitudes in this country. And we're not talking about attitudes about quotas here; we're talking about people prepared to make sweeping statements about the inferiority of non-Asians.

Sorry, but I'd like to see less racism in Asian countries and among Asian-Americans in the states before I get too worked up over purported discrimination against Asians who are already over-represented in elite institutions of higher learning. As it is, it just seems like an attempt to grab control of American institutions that will only exacerbate current inequalities in our society.

Haters gonna hate!
Liars gonna lie!
Keep telling your lies about Asians being racist but nobody will be fooled.
Even if what your said was true (which it's not), it would be called arrogance but not racism. Racism is an action (such as affirmative action), not an attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian societies are among the most racist in the world and many Asian-Americans display the same attitudes in this country. And we're not talking about attitudes about quotas here; we're talking about people prepared to make sweeping statements about the inferiority of non-Asians.

Sorry, but I'd like to see less racism in Asian countries and among Asian-Americans in the states before I get too worked up over purported discrimination against Asians who are already over-represented in elite institutions of higher learning. As it is, it just seems like an attempt to grab control of American institutions that will only exacerbate current inequalities in our society.

You are confusing Asians living in Asian countries with "Asian Americans". We are discussing Asian Americans living in the United States. You are displaying prejudice by lumping Asian Americans with Asians in Asian countries. Do you want to lump African Americans with Africans living in Africa? Do you want to lump whites with whites living in Europe? Why do you single out only Asian Americans as if they are synonymous with Asians in other countries? How are many Asian Americans racist in this country when they are subjected to wide spread racism and discrimination and the smallest minority group with the least amount of political power who get stepped on everyday without anyone paying any attention. This blatant discrimination in college admissions is a classic example of how Asian Americans get stepped on and no one even pays any attention let alone discuss any possible remedy. How is that Asian Americans being racist? When did Asian Americans make sweeping statements about inferiority of non-Asians? Last I checked, it was the whites that came up with derogatory stereotypes of non-whites such as blacks being unintelligent, Hispanics being lazy or Asians being good at taking tests, being drones etc.

You are the one making sweeping statements about Asian Americans being racists in this country. Again, if you want to discuss over-representation, why is it that 2% of the general population making up 30 to 40% of the Ivies (Jews) is not an over-representation but 6% making making up 18% at Ivies is always a problem as being over-representation?

In addition, Asian Americans control which institutions of our society and thereby enjoy unequal power compared to other groups? Is it the government, major corporations, major universities, major financial institutions, legal field, major media companies, military, show business, defense contracting industry, government contracting industry, sport teams, think tanks, lobbying groups? I think Asian Americans are severely under-represented. The inequality is that Asian Americans are overwhelmingly under-represented in all areas of the society. I think you have things mixed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess it's not simply brain power. Think about jews are arguably one of the most intelligent groups, did they have any thing on par with Harvard?


I'm tired of the the Jews/Asian comparison. Apples and Oranges and way too pat. Yes, both groups have experienced discrimination, but for different reasons and at different periods of time. Remind me about the Asian holocaust? Or the period of time when Chinese slaves were bought and sold in America? There are a lot of reasons that certain admissions practices have evolved the way they have. I'm not saying I agree with all of them, just that there are reasons for this imperfect system that have nothing to do with discriminating against Asians. Asians make up 60% of the world population and Asian Americans account for 5-6 percent of the U.S. population. Should Harvard be 60% Asian? Or 6 percent? Or somewhere in between? Should a certain percentage of Asian or Asian/Americans who apply be admitted just because a larger proportion of Asian/Asian Americans apply because Harvard or name the elite school is considered the only acceptable option?

If you read the lawsuit the example of the student with near perfect scores, impressive activities, etc. could just as easily have been a white, or Jewish student turned down in what has become an unbelievably and fiercely competitive process that takes a lot of factors into account.

As for Jews creating "any thing" on par with Harvard, look no further than the movie industry, or their incredible influence in the media world. America responds to power and influence, which is why you don't find too many Jews filing discrimination suits against elite universities. The trick is showing that you can bring something special to the table and sometimes that takes a generation of two.

Jewish people experience discrimination earlier in their elite college admission. So your holocaust theory doesn't apply.
And why should we look at population of each race in college admission? Why should we look at race at all? It should be purely based on merit in a race-blind process.
I hope people should at least agree with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian societies are among the most racist in the world and many Asian-Americans display the same attitudes in this country. And we're not talking about attitudes about quotas here; we're talking about people prepared to make sweeping statements about the inferiority of non-Asians.

Sorry, but I'd like to see less racism in Asian countries and among Asian-Americans in the states before I get too worked up over purported discrimination against Asians who are already over-represented in elite institutions of higher learning. As it is, it just seems like an attempt to grab control of American institutions that will only exacerbate current inequalities in our society.

You are confusing Asians living in Asian countries with "Asian Americans". We are discussing Asian Americans living in the United States. You are displaying prejudice by lumping Asian Americans with Asians in Asian countries. Do you want to lump African Americans with Africans living in Africa? Do you want to lump whites with whites living in Europe? Why do you single out only Asian Americans as if they are synonymous with Asians in other countries? How are many Asian Americans racist in this country when they are subjected to wide spread racism and discrimination and the smallest minority group with the least amount of political power who get stepped on everyday without anyone paying any attention. This blatant discrimination in college admissions is a classic example of how Asian Americans get stepped on and no one even pays any attention let alone discuss any possible remedy. How is that Asian Americans being racist? When did Asian Americans make sweeping statements about inferiority of non-Asians? Last I checked, it was the whites that came up with derogatory stereotypes of non-whites such as blacks being unintelligent, Hispanics being lazy or Asians being good at taking tests, being drones etc.

You are the one making sweeping statements about Asian Americans being racists in this country. Again, if you want to discuss over-representation, why is it that 2% of the general population making up 30 to 40% of the Ivies (Jews) is not an over-representation but 6% making making up 18% at Ivies is always a problem as being over-representation?

In addition, Asian Americans control which institutions of our society and thereby enjoy unequal power compared to other groups? Is it the government, major corporations, major universities, major financial institutions, legal field, major media companies, military, show business, defense contracting industry, government contracting industry, sport teams, think tanks, lobbying groups? I think Asian Americans are severely under-represented. The inequality is that Asian Americans are overwhelmingly under-represented in all areas of the society. I think you have things mixed up.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian societies are among the most racist in the world and many Asian-Americans display the same attitudes in this country. And we're not talking about attitudes about quotas here; we're talking about people prepared to make sweeping statements about the inferiority of non-Asians.

Sorry, but I'd like to see less racism in Asian countries and among Asian-Americans in the states before I get too worked up over purported discrimination against Asians who are already over-represented in elite institutions of higher learning. As it is, it just seems like an attempt to grab control of American institutions that will only exacerbate current inequalities in our society.

You are confusing Asians living in Asian countries with "Asian Americans". We are discussing Asian Americans living in the United States. You are displaying prejudice by lumping Asian Americans with Asians in Asian countries. Do you want to lump African Americans with Africans living in Africa? Do you want to lump whites with whites living in Europe? Why do you single out only Asian Americans as if they are synonymous with Asians in other countries? How are many Asian Americans racist in this country when they are subjected to wide spread racism and discrimination and the smallest minority group with the least amount of political power who get stepped on everyday without anyone paying any attention. This blatant discrimination in college admissions is a classic example of how Asian Americans get stepped on and no one even pays any attention let alone discuss any possible remedy. How is that Asian Americans being racist? When did Asian Americans make sweeping statements about inferiority of non-Asians? Last I checked, it was the whites that came up with derogatory stereotypes of non-whites such as blacks being unintelligent, Hispanics being lazy or Asians being good at taking tests, being drones etc.

You are the one making sweeping statements about Asian Americans being racists in this country. Again, if you want to discuss over-representation, why is it that 2% of the general population making up 30 to 40% of the Ivies (Jews) is not an over-representation but 6% making making up 18% at Ivies is always a problem as being over-representation?

In addition, Asian Americans control which institutions of our society and thereby enjoy unequal power compared to other groups? Is it the government, major corporations, major universities, major financial institutions, legal field, major media companies, military, show business, defense contracting industry, government contracting industry, sport teams, think tanks, lobbying groups? I think Asian Americans are severely under-represented. The inequality is that Asian Americans are overwhelmingly under-represented in all areas of the society. I think you have things mixed up.

But I think that is part of the confusion. Both Asian Americans and Asians living overseas would check the same box on an application. And you're right, very different cultural experiences despite the common heritage. These are things that colleges like Harvard undoubtedly take into consideration when forming their classes of high achieving kids from all over the world that they feel would add the most to Harvard. Why would the assumption be regardless of populations that there would be a certain proportion of any ethnicity? Aren't they choosing individuals based on a myriad of factors?

And remind me again which box Jewish students check? I'm fairly certain I never checked a Catholic box

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian societies are among the most racist in the world and many Asian-Americans display the same attitudes in this country. And we're not talking about attitudes about quotas here; we're talking about people prepared to make sweeping statements about the inferiority of non-Asians.

Sorry, but I'd like to see less racism in Asian countries and among Asian-Americans in the states before I get too worked up over purported discrimination against Asians who are already over-represented in elite institutions of higher learning. As it is, it just seems like an attempt to grab control of American institutions that will only exacerbate current inequalities in our society.

You are confusing Asians living in Asian countries with "Asian Americans". We are discussing Asian Americans living in the United States. You are displaying prejudice by lumping Asian Americans with Asians in Asian countries. Do you want to lump African Americans with Africans living in Africa? Do you want to lump whites with whites living in Europe? Why do you single out only Asian Americans as if they are synonymous with Asians in other countries? How are many Asian Americans racist in this country when they are subjected to wide spread racism and discrimination and the smallest minority group with the least amount of political power who get stepped on everyday without anyone paying any attention. This blatant discrimination in college admissions is a classic example of how Asian Americans get stepped on and no one even pays any attention let alone discuss any possible remedy. How is that Asian Americans being racist? When did Asian Americans make sweeping statements about inferiority of non-Asians? Last I checked, it was the whites that came up with derogatory stereotypes of non-whites such as blacks being unintelligent, Hispanics being lazy or Asians being good at taking tests, being drones etc.

You are the one making sweeping statements about Asian Americans being racists in this country. Again, if you want to discuss over-representation, why is it that 2% of the general population making up 30 to 40% of the Ivies (Jews) is not an over-representation but 6% making making up 18% at Ivies is always a problem as being over-representation?

In addition, Asian Americans control which institutions of our society and thereby enjoy unequal power compared to other groups? Is it the government, major corporations, major universities, major financial institutions, legal field, major media companies, military, show business, defense contracting industry, government contracting industry, sport teams, think tanks, lobbying groups? I think Asian Americans are severely under-represented. The inequality is that Asian Americans are overwhelmingly under-represented in all areas of the society. I think you have things mixed up.

But I think that is part of the confusion. Both Asian Americans and Asians living overseas would check the same box on an application. And you're right, very different cultural experiences despite the common heritage. These are things that colleges like Harvard undoubtedly take into consideration when forming their classes of high achieving kids from all over the world that they feel would add the most to Harvard. Why would the assumption be regardless of populations that there would be a certain proportion of any ethnicity? Aren't they choosing individuals based on a myriad of factors?

And remind me again which box Jewish students check? I'm fairly certain I never checked a Catholic box

There is a box for religion as well as one for race in Common Application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian societies are among the most racist in the world and many Asian-Americans display the same attitudes in this country. And we're not talking about attitudes about quotas here; we're talking about people prepared to make sweeping statements about the inferiority of non-Asians.

Sorry, but I'd like to see less racism in Asian countries and among Asian-Americans in the states before I get too worked up over purported discrimination against Asians who are already over-represented in elite institutions of higher learning. As it is, it just seems like an attempt to grab control of American institutions that will only exacerbate current inequalities in our society.

You make a sweeping racial generalization about how a whole group of people are racist and use that as a reason not to care about whether or not that group faces racial discrimination. Don't you see what a strange statement that is? Who is the racist here - you or the Asian Americans you lump together.

I am an Asian American and do not see evidence that Asian Americans harbor more racial prejudice than other groups. A clear majority of Asian Americans voted for Obama for President, Asian Americans have a fairly high rate of interracial marriage. Definitely I have heard / seen racial prejudice from Asian Americans as I have seen from white Americans and other groups. But it seems to me like you are more than ready to take some individual examples and generalize it to millions of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess it's not simply brain power. Think about jews are arguably one of the most intelligent groups, did they have any thing on par with Harvard?


I'm tired of the the Jews/Asian comparison. Apples and Oranges and way too pat. Yes, both groups have experienced discrimination, but for different reasons and at different periods of time. Remind me about the Asian holocaust? Or the period of time when Chinese slaves were bought and sold in America? There are a lot of reasons that certain admissions practices have evolved the way they have. I'm not saying I agree with all of them, just that there are reasons for this imperfect system that have nothing to do with discriminating against Asians. Asians make up 60% of the world population and Asian Americans account for 5-6 percent of the U.S. population. Should Harvard be 60% Asian? Or 6 percent? Or somewhere in between? Should a certain percentage of Asian or Asian/Americans who apply be admitted just because a larger proportion of Asian/Asian Americans apply because Harvard or name the elite school is considered the only acceptable option?

If you read the lawsuit the example of the student with near perfect scores, impressive activities, etc. could just as easily have been a white, or Jewish student turned down in what has become an unbelievably and fiercely competitive process that takes a lot of factors into account.

As for Jews creating "any thing" on par with Harvard, look no further than the movie industry, or their incredible influence in the media world. America responds to power and influence, which is why you don't find too many Jews filing discrimination suits against elite universities. The trick is showing that you can bring something special to the table and sometimes that takes a generation of two.

Jewish people experience discrimination earlier in their elite college admission. So your holocaust theory doesn't apply.
And why should we look at population of each race in college admission? Why should we look at race at all? It should be purely based on merit in a race-blind process.
I hope people should at least agree with that.

I think the issue comes in when you're defining "merit". Schools (really good ones at least) look to build a student body with certain characteristics independent of grades and test scores. I think they believe that this leads to a better learning experience for everyone. FWIW, I think Private colleges should be allowed to build their classes however they wish and that publicly funded colleges should be barred from using race when admitting students.