Reply to Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It used to be that whites used to be overwhelmingly opposed to affirmative action because they thought they were being disadvantaged against AA and hispanics.  Now they realize that they're actually being helped by affirmative action because they are taking the spots of asians who are more qualified than them.  So now whites are overwhelmingly supportive of affirmative action.  How funny.  Years ago, there used to be arguments made that it was time to get rid of affirmative action because equality has evolved long enough that all races are at an even playing field.  But then I read an essay that said affirmative action will never go away once whites realize that getting rid of it will not help them but will help asians instead.  How right he was.[/quote]

Kind of broad-brush statements to be making about ALL whites.  Before the Asian Americans boomed as a demographic and competition against each other intensified, you didn't hear much complaining about the benefits they got from affirmative action, which, let's face it, was set up to help rectify wrongs that held back and entire ethnic group (African Americans), not to assist other groups that were in many cases not similarly disadvantaged and perfectly able to qualify on merit.

BTW, affirmative action doesn't just affect college admission, do Asians feel similarly affronted by its impact on them in the workplace or job market?   Are their lawsuits there?  And if not, why not, since these high performing Asian Americans would seemingly be competing against a higher proportion of Asians and have to work much harder than whites to get a good job.  Seems to me this is where the argument falls apart.  As a PP has noted, there's too much wanting admission to our elite colleges to be like a Chinese gaokao -- having all the right numbers (whether it's test scores, or now that folks have clued in, number and rank of ECs.}  This is lockstep drive for a credential that has been deemed of overarching importance to cultures that value education.  To each his own, but at the end of the day we are arguing at the margins.  All of these schools are only so big and every year turn away thousands of qualified kids of all ethnicities.   Short of documentation or real evidence to support a quota designed to limit Asians at these schools (as opposed to suppositions based on what was done in the past or a gripe that the total number of Asians should be larger because there are so many in the world ) this seems like whining.

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"First, no one is saying (certainly not most Asian Americans) U.S. college admissions is or should be equivalent to "gaokao". This is your first confusion. Most Asian Americans are perfectly willing and able to comply with the rules and requirements of the U.S. college admissions system. Asian Americans are not saying "testing is everything". That is often alleged by non-Asian Americans who want to perpetuate the stereotype of Asian Americans and portray Asian Americans as one-dimensional. This is offensive as saying blacks are not intelligent or Hispanics are lazy. Any stereotyping of races should not be tolerated. Your entire argument assumes Asian Americans only regard testing as important and that they only excel with tests and that is simply not true and also offensive as noted earlier.

I am fed up with those claiming to be Asian Americans who display the attitude that since I already attended Ivy League school and have "Ivy degrees" hell with all the other Asian Americans and that any allegation of discrimination is whining. You simply cannot say there is no race based quotas just because you have two Ivy degrees. All the historical evidence points to a cap on Asian acceptances. Obviously, a college will not circulate a written memo stating they have a "quota" on Asian acceptances but they can certainly have an understanding what the rough percentage would be for Asian acceptances. In addition, Asian Americans should fight discrimination in all major areas and college admissions is a prominent area where discrimination should not be tolerated. Good education plays a major role in eventual success and accomplishment in general and many key/leadership positions in society appear to be closely connected to good/great education. In addition, precisely since there is a pervasive racial discrimination against Asian Americans in general, obtaining the best possible educational credentials is even more important compared to other races.

You are making blanket statements regarding Asians and Asian Americans when you say "it is pretty obvious that there are lots of students with good grades who test well, but have almost nothing else." "The profiles are often remarkably similar: math/science excellence, limited intellectual depth in literature and the arts,---" Maybe you have forgotten how it was before you earned your two "Ivy degrees". Maybe your two "Ivy degrees" have opened doors for you and you have done relatively well in your chosen field but try to imagine what could have happened if you were denied admissions to Ivy League schools and attended some typical state universities. Would you still say that Asian Americans are "whining" when you hear of racial dissemination against Asian Americans in college admissions? If you are really a "Chinese American" and not someone masquerading as Asian, can you honestly say that your kids will be treated equally with blacks, Hispanics and white applicants when they apply to Ivy League schools?

Let me point out few things that you may have forgotten thanks to your two "Ivy degrees". Asians tend to gravitate towards STEM fields because that is about the only area where there appears to be less discrimination against Asians in general. Whites tend to view Asians as "competent" engineers, computer programmer, scientists etc. but generally, that is not the case in non-STEM areas such as business management, law, media, entertainment, music, politics, national security, military etc. Another possible reason for choosing STEM field may be that if Asian is not very fluent with the English language, STEM field may be more attractive as well. I have seen plenty of Asian students active in all kinds of activities at my son's high school including debate, MUN, yearbook, school newspaper, volunteer activities, various team sports etc. You just cannot make blanket statements and promote stereotyping of Asian Americans. Shame on you for having the attitude that I got my Ivy degrees so hell with other Asians. College Admissions should be non-discriminatory, fair and transparent. There should not be racial balancing with something so fundamental and important as college educational opportunities.

Ivies are generally comprehensive research oriented national universities with the possible exception of 1 or 2 schools. In fact, Cornell, Princeton and Columbia have a major STEM presence and Harvard also has strong science programs, "School of Applied Science and Engineering" as well as premier Medical School and bioengineering program. It would be inaccurate to portray Ivy league schools as Liberal Arts Colleges.

Finally, Caltech may be primarily a STEM school but UC, Berkeley and UCLA certainly are not primarily tech schools and they seem to be doing fine not practicing racial preference or racial discrimination in college admissions. In fact, they also have good athletic programs as well as good philosophy, English etc. in addition to good science and tech programs."
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