The future of Russia. Any foreign policy experts want to weigh in?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Russian but have lived in the US for over a decade
I still have family there so I visit regularly and have been going even after the invasion (it’s become much more expensive and cumbersome fyi)
My guess is that Russia will be Iran on steroids. A geriatric regime, extremely conservative and on the brink of dictatorship (but not to the extent of North Korea). The economy will be militarized (the so called mobilization economy), people won’t starve and will be able to move freely (finances permitting). However there will be no innovation and not much vibrancy if you know what I mean. However there is a rich legacy of kitchen cultural life from the soviet times, as well as post soviet cultural renaissance, so it not going to be all doom and gloom.
Yes there will be brain drain but also there will be a sufficient number of technically talented people who are believers and can keep the austere military economy afloat. And there is a certain taste for overcoming difficulties in the “genes” of the population.
As for the war, it will be a slow churn, one step forward and two steps back. I feel bad for the annexed regions and their population. They will suffer no matter the outcome.
Some parts of Russia might be under shelling too (some already are but I mean cities and not just Belgorod).
Basically, there will be life but no one without ties to Russia will want to live a life like that.

Interesting! Does your family have access to information or are they also blinded by the Russian propaganda machine? Do you enlighten them?
Also, do you think that the "overcoming difficulties" gene is still strong, especially after Western exposure and luxuries? Even with the youth? I'd think it'd be waning.

Family: it depends. None of them is totally blinded by the propaganda but they all think that Ukraine went too far in trying to be with the West and rejecting Russia, the Russian language, etc.
They don’t phrase it like that but that’s the essence.
None of them can face the fact that the war, the power struggle was a huge mistake. They think there is “something” to it. Even those who think Putin and his cronies are criminals etc
I tried to share my POV but while they are all respectful they clearly think I have been brainwashed
The “overcoming difficulties” gene is still there in a lot of people. One of the things that surprised me in connection with this war is how few people have actually been exposed to Western values and luxury beyond Burger King and such. And Chinese phones are preferred over Apple by and large

They don't understand and accept that Ukraine moving to the West and rejecting Russia is a direct result of Russia's continual meddling and corrupting of Ukraine, their invasion in 2014?
They don't understand that it is Russia's own belligerent behavior that is also pushing Finland and Sweden into NATO?

Why did Russia invade in 2014?

In 2014, Ukraine wanted to join the EU. But Putin didn't want this, so he had his corrupt, criminal puppet Yanukovich betray and derail them. Students began protesting, Yanukovich sent Berkut to violently beat them down, this violence made a lot of people upset causing the protests to escalate, ultimately resulting in Yanukovich's ouster. Putin invaded out of revenge for Yanukovich's ouster.

DP. I want $1K and will never get it. These were the chances that Ukraine would join EU any time soon. This is a very superficial explanation of why Russia invaded and what Ukrainian Maidan leaders wanted.

Superficial? I'd suggest some superficiality on your part to casually ignore that the Verkhovna Rada voted on the Ukraine-EU agreement and it passed with a solid majority, before Yanukovich unilaterally scuttled the deal and announced that Ukraine would instead pursue closer ties with Russia.

The EU would not have signed it without significant changes and it was heavily conditioned on a number of things
Honestly I am surprised Russia seemed so upset by it. Europe was trying to lure Ukraine in but it wasn’t going to make it easy
But of course Ukraine shouldn’t have angered the bear without any real chances of getting anything
I don’t believe they didn’t know it was all illusion and they had a long way ahead of them
There must have been something else. Like maybe politicians just using some popular gimmicks to stay in power

Well, that's quite a take. I certainly don't think everyone that was pro-Maidan was as pure as the driven snow, but I also don't think it's a real stretch to believe that the relatively young population of Ukraine wanted something different than to be a Putin puppet state. If anyone overplayed their hand here, it's Putin, time and again.

I don’t blame them, I would rather have American or any of the EU citizenships than Russian, too.
However they needed to be realistic. The West wasn’t going to welcome them with open arms. Russia wasn’t going to let go of what it considered theirs.
This whole illusion of Ukraine being Europe (or worse, a cynical lie by certain politicians) is what brought Ukraine to a sad state it is in now.
Is it fair that it can’t leave Russia’s orbit, at least without major destruction? No! But is it true? Certainly yes.

I don't know that I agree with this. We can quibble about what "open arms" means here, but the fact that the West was rooting for Ukraine to succeed/stand on its own is exactly the issue. Too bad if Putin has a different interpretation of "his" than the rest of the world.

The west didn’t and doesn’t care about Ukraine one bit. I am not talking about gullible Americans but the governments. They care about having a stable predictable neighbor and about not letting Russia or China or anyone for that matter become strong enough to threaten the US and its allies.
This was the whole reason of dangling the EU carrot in front of Ukraine and Georgia. Apparently Georgians were a little smarter to keep their mouths shut about their EU ambitions and also more lucky since they are of less value to Russia than Ukraine. So now Ukraine bears the brunt of the Russian anger.
Again, I am not defending Russia but just explaining the reasoning

The west likes stability, and it likes good trade partners. And I know of a lot of Americans who worked with Ukraine and viewed Ukraine very favorably. Ukraine has a lot of good software developers and other innovators, in addition to its more traditional economy. If they didn't truly care about Ukraine there wouldn't even have been any carrots dangled.

Maybe we just have different definitions of care

Well, we've clearly and repeatedly seen the Russian definition of "care" - it's "do what we tell you to or we will blast your town into rubble and send any survivors that were left to freeze and starve to death in the middle of nowhere." I'll take western care over Russian care, thank you.

I wasn’t talking about Russians. They are no teddy bears. I am talking about the West “caring” about Ukraine or any countries in the Russian orbit. It is crystal clear that Russia wasn’t going to let them get off lightly if they wanted to flirt with the West. I am not saying it’s how it should be. I am saying that the former republics were to think for themselves and choose the lesser of two evils. And no, being with the west without war was not a choice, at least for the first one to try. Maybe others will be luckier after Russia is toothless.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country” with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

No, in 2008 Russia wanted to make sure Georgia knows who's the boss.

The argument still stands. If you believe in "territorial integrity", you must believe it's a right for all countries. Not just the ones you approve of. And that means no independence for Chechnya, ever.

There is enough violence in America's past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a Chechen American family who lives in the area. Great, upstanding people. US citizens and as American as anyone. One kid serving in the military. And registered Democrats which surprised me because I would assume they would be conservative, but one of the kids is even what you would call “woke.” I know another Chechen family who are doctors, business owners, real estate agents. There is nothing in the DNA of Chechens or anyone else that says they can’t be good people and contributing members of society. It’s about having and creating a society worth contributing to, and I don’t think the Russian government has provided that.

Some of you are shamefully bigoted, it’s astonishing.

Chechens outside of their natural habitat are people like any other. Chechens in a majority setting are forced to live by their own laws even if they personally disagree with them because the family honor is more important than the feelings of any individual member of the family.

This. Just like so many other ethnicities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country”with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

DP.
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that Russia is kind and democratic and wants the best for their neighbors.
What I am saying (as well as the PP I think) is that the US is not much better and only cares for its own interests. Pot meet kettle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country”with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

LOL give them credit, at least it's full citizenship, and not, like, a Palestinian ID card while your Jewish neighbor has full citizenship upon arrival from Zhmerinka.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Russian but have lived in the US for over a decade
I still have family there so I visit regularly and have been going even after the invasion (it’s become much more expensive and cumbersome fyi)
My guess is that Russia will be Iran on steroids. A geriatric regime, extremely conservative and on the brink of dictatorship (but not to the extent of North Korea). The economy will be militarized (the so called mobilization economy), people won’t starve and will be able to move freely (finances permitting). However there will be no innovation and not much vibrancy if you know what I mean. However there is a rich legacy of kitchen cultural life from the soviet times, as well as post soviet cultural renaissance, so it not going to be all doom and gloom.
Yes there will be brain drain but also there will be a sufficient number of technically talented people who are believers and can keep the austere military economy afloat. And there is a certain taste for overcoming difficulties in the “genes” of the population.
As for the war, it will be a slow churn, one step forward and two steps back. I feel bad for the annexed regions and their population. They will suffer no matter the outcome.
Some parts of Russia might be under shelling too (some already are but I mean cities and not just Belgorod).
Basically, there will be life but no one without ties to Russia will want to live a life like that.

Interesting! Does your family have access to information or are they also blinded by the Russian propaganda machine? Do you enlighten them?
Also, do you think that the "overcoming difficulties" gene is still strong, especially after Western exposure and luxuries? Even with the youth? I'd think it'd be waning.

Family: it depends. None of them is totally blinded by the propaganda but they all think that Ukraine went too far in trying to be with the West and rejecting Russia, the Russian language, etc.
They don’t phrase it like that but that’s the essence.
None of them can face the fact that the war, the power struggle was a huge mistake. They think there is “something” to it. Even those who think Putin and his cronies are criminals etc
I tried to share my POV but while they are all respectful they clearly think I have been brainwashed
The “overcoming difficulties” gene is still there in a lot of people. One of the things that surprised me in connection with this war is how few people have actually been exposed to Western values and luxury beyond Burger King and such. And Chinese phones are preferred over Apple by and large

They don't understand and accept that Ukraine moving to the West and rejecting Russia is a direct result of Russia's continual meddling and corrupting of Ukraine, their invasion in 2014?
They don't understand that it is Russia's own belligerent behavior that is also pushing Finland and Sweden into NATO?

Why did Russia invade in 2014?

In 2014, Ukraine wanted to join the EU. But Putin didn't want this, so he had his corrupt, criminal puppet Yanukovich betray and derail them. Students began protesting, Yanukovich sent Berkut to violently beat them down, this violence made a lot of people upset causing the protests to escalate, ultimately resulting in Yanukovich's ouster. Putin invaded out of revenge for Yanukovich's ouster.

DP. I want $1K and will never get it. These were the chances that Ukraine would join EU any time soon. This is a very superficial explanation of why Russia invaded and what Ukrainian Maidan leaders wanted.

Superficial? I'd suggest some superficiality on your part to casually ignore that the Verkhovna Rada voted on the Ukraine-EU agreement and it passed with a solid majority, before Yanukovich unilaterally scuttled the deal and announced that Ukraine would instead pursue closer ties with Russia.

The EU would not have signed it without significant changes and it was heavily conditioned on a number of things
Honestly I am surprised Russia seemed so upset by it. Europe was trying to lure Ukraine in but it wasn’t going to make it easy
But of course Ukraine shouldn’t have angered the bear without any real chances of getting anything
I don’t believe they didn’t know it was all illusion and they had a long way ahead of them
There must have been something else. Like maybe politicians just using some popular gimmicks to stay in power

Well, that's quite a take. I certainly don't think everyone that was pro-Maidan was as pure as the driven snow, but I also don't think it's a real stretch to believe that the relatively young population of Ukraine wanted something different than to be a Putin puppet state. If anyone overplayed their hand here, it's Putin, time and again.

I don’t blame them, I would rather have American or any of the EU citizenships than Russian, too.
However they needed to be realistic. The West wasn’t going to welcome them with open arms. Russia wasn’t going to let go of what it considered theirs.
This whole illusion of Ukraine being Europe (or worse, a cynical lie by certain politicians) is what brought Ukraine to a sad state it is in now.
Is it fair that it can’t leave Russia’s orbit, at least without major destruction? No! But is it true? Certainly yes.

I don't know that I agree with this. We can quibble about what "open arms" means here, but the fact that the West was rooting for Ukraine to succeed/stand on its own is exactly the issue. Too bad if Putin has a different interpretation of "his" than the rest of the world.

The west didn’t and doesn’t care about Ukraine one bit. I am not talking about gullible Americans but the governments. They care about having a stable predictable neighbor and about not letting Russia or China or anyone for that matter become strong enough to threaten the US and its allies.
This was the whole reason of dangling the EU carrot in front of Ukraine and Georgia. Apparently Georgians were a little smarter to keep their mouths shut about their EU ambitions and also more lucky since they are of less value to Russia than Ukraine. So now Ukraine bears the brunt of the Russian anger.
Again, I am not defending Russia but just explaining the reasoning

The west likes stability, and it likes good trade partners. And I know of a lot of Americans who worked with Ukraine and viewed Ukraine very favorably. Ukraine has a lot of good software developers and other innovators, in addition to its more traditional economy. If they didn't truly care about Ukraine there wouldn't even have been any carrots dangled.

Maybe we just have different definitions of care

Well, we've clearly and repeatedly seen the Russian definition of "care" - it's "do what we tell you to or we will blast your town into rubble and send any survivors that were left to freeze and starve to death in the middle of nowhere." I'll take western care over Russian care, thank you.

I can't tell if you're describing Iraq or Ukraine.

Russia definitely did this to Chechens. And now they are doing it to Ukraine as well. Totally beyond me what your weird insinuatin about "Iraq" is supposed to mean.

Just that your description of Russia's M.O. sounds suspiciously like...oh, every other country making war on another country.

I must have missed the part where the American troops in Iraq rounded up most of the Iraqis and loaded them into cattle cars with no food and water and sent them off to some wasteland in the frozen north. And burned the ones who resisted alive.

Did you miss half a million dead Iraqis too? Or are you only counting the dead who are white?

Are you missing the part where American soldiers didn't kill those Iraqis? Most of them were killed by insurgents, ISIS, sectarian groups et cetera. And how disgusting of you to suggest "only counting the dead who are white."

Gee, that's like saying, I didn't kill that guy, I only put him in a box car with no food or water in subzero temperature. It's like...you want the freedom to fock up countries and total immunity from the bad stuff that happens in a focked-up country.

Ah right, right. It's America's fault because they didn't use their magic Hogwarts CIA Brain Washing Wand. They should have just waved it in the air and solved hundreds of years worth of Muslim sectarian divides, solved ISIS and everything else, like how they brainwashed all of those Ukrainian students into protesting Yanukovich. How foolish that they didn't think of that.

Yes, this is sarcasm. And it's clear where the different lines of bullshit Russian propaganda begin to collide with each other.

If only there was an option to do nothing and not invade!

Sure, just leave them alone. Should have let Iraq invade Kuwait. Should stop meddling and let Russia invade and annex Georgia, Ukraine and other countries. Everyone is allowed to invade but the US needs to stay in its corner, shut up, mind its own business and let them. Got it. I guess we should have just let the Nazis take over too. America is just constantly wrong no matter what it does. /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country”with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

LOL give them credit, at least it's full citizenship, and not, like, a Palestinian ID card while your Jewish neighbor has full citizenship upon arrival from Zhmerinka.

Ehhh... I think I recall seeing an article showing that the newly issued passports for the occupied territories have a lot of restrictions, conditions and limitations on them. They are being treated as second class citizens, not full Russian citizens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Russian but have lived in the US for over a decade
I still have family there so I visit regularly and have been going even after the invasion (it’s become much more expensive and cumbersome fyi)
My guess is that Russia will be Iran on steroids. A geriatric regime, extremely conservative and on the brink of dictatorship (but not to the extent of North Korea). The economy will be militarized (the so called mobilization economy), people won’t starve and will be able to move freely (finances permitting). However there will be no innovation and not much vibrancy if you know what I mean. However there is a rich legacy of kitchen cultural life from the soviet times, as well as post soviet cultural renaissance, so it not going to be all doom and gloom.
Yes there will be brain drain but also there will be a sufficient number of technically talented people who are believers and can keep the austere military economy afloat. And there is a certain taste for overcoming difficulties in the “genes” of the population.
As for the war, it will be a slow churn, one step forward and two steps back. I feel bad for the annexed regions and their population. They will suffer no matter the outcome.
Some parts of Russia might be under shelling too (some already are but I mean cities and not just Belgorod).
Basically, there will be life but no one without ties to Russia will want to live a life like that.

Interesting! Does your family have access to information or are they also blinded by the Russian propaganda machine? Do you enlighten them?
Also, do you think that the "overcoming difficulties" gene is still strong, especially after Western exposure and luxuries? Even with the youth? I'd think it'd be waning.

Family: it depends. None of them is totally blinded by the propaganda but they all think that Ukraine went too far in trying to be with the West and rejecting Russia, the Russian language, etc.
They don’t phrase it like that but that’s the essence.
None of them can face the fact that the war, the power struggle was a huge mistake. They think there is “something” to it. Even those who think Putin and his cronies are criminals etc
I tried to share my POV but while they are all respectful they clearly think I have been brainwashed
The “overcoming difficulties” gene is still there in a lot of people. One of the things that surprised me in connection with this war is how few people have actually been exposed to Western values and luxury beyond Burger King and such. And Chinese phones are preferred over Apple by and large

They don't understand and accept that Ukraine moving to the West and rejecting Russia is a direct result of Russia's continual meddling and corrupting of Ukraine, their invasion in 2014?
They don't understand that it is Russia's own belligerent behavior that is also pushing Finland and Sweden into NATO?

Why did Russia invade in 2014?

In 2014, Ukraine wanted to join the EU. But Putin didn't want this, so he had his corrupt, criminal puppet Yanukovich betray and derail them. Students began protesting, Yanukovich sent Berkut to violently beat them down, this violence made a lot of people upset causing the protests to escalate, ultimately resulting in Yanukovich's ouster. Putin invaded out of revenge for Yanukovich's ouster.

DP. I want $1K and will never get it. These were the chances that Ukraine would join EU any time soon. This is a very superficial explanation of why Russia invaded and what Ukrainian Maidan leaders wanted.

Superficial? I'd suggest some superficiality on your part to casually ignore that the Verkhovna Rada voted on the Ukraine-EU agreement and it passed with a solid majority, before Yanukovich unilaterally scuttled the deal and announced that Ukraine would instead pursue closer ties with Russia.

The EU would not have signed it without significant changes and it was heavily conditioned on a number of things
Honestly I am surprised Russia seemed so upset by it. Europe was trying to lure Ukraine in but it wasn’t going to make it easy
But of course Ukraine shouldn’t have angered the bear without any real chances of getting anything
I don’t believe they didn’t know it was all illusion and they had a long way ahead of them
There must have been something else. Like maybe politicians just using some popular gimmicks to stay in power

Well, that's quite a take. I certainly don't think everyone that was pro-Maidan was as pure as the driven snow, but I also don't think it's a real stretch to believe that the relatively young population of Ukraine wanted something different than to be a Putin puppet state. If anyone overplayed their hand here, it's Putin, time and again.

I don’t blame them, I would rather have American or any of the EU citizenships than Russian, too.
However they needed to be realistic. The West wasn’t going to welcome them with open arms. Russia wasn’t going to let go of what it considered theirs.
This whole illusion of Ukraine being Europe (or worse, a cynical lie by certain politicians) is what brought Ukraine to a sad state it is in now.
Is it fair that it can’t leave Russia’s orbit, at least without major destruction? No! But is it true? Certainly yes.

I don't know that I agree with this. We can quibble about what "open arms" means here, but the fact that the West was rooting for Ukraine to succeed/stand on its own is exactly the issue. Too bad if Putin has a different interpretation of "his" than the rest of the world.

The west didn’t and doesn’t care about Ukraine one bit. I am not talking about gullible Americans but the governments. They care about having a stable predictable neighbor and about not letting Russia or China or anyone for that matter become strong enough to threaten the US and its allies.
This was the whole reason of dangling the EU carrot in front of Ukraine and Georgia. Apparently Georgians were a little smarter to keep their mouths shut about their EU ambitions and also more lucky since they are of less value to Russia than Ukraine. So now Ukraine bears the brunt of the Russian anger.
Again, I am not defending Russia but just explaining the reasoning

The west likes stability, and it likes good trade partners. And I know of a lot of Americans who worked with Ukraine and viewed Ukraine very favorably. Ukraine has a lot of good software developers and other innovators, in addition to its more traditional economy. If they didn't truly care about Ukraine there wouldn't even have been any carrots dangled.

Maybe we just have different definitions of care

Well, we've clearly and repeatedly seen the Russian definition of "care" - it's "do what we tell you to or we will blast your town into rubble and send any survivors that were left to freeze and starve to death in the middle of nowhere." I'll take western care over Russian care, thank you.

I can't tell if you're describing Iraq or Ukraine.

Russia definitely did this to Chechens. And now they are doing it to Ukraine as well. Totally beyond me what your weird insinuatin about "Iraq" is supposed to mean.

Just that your description of Russia's M.O. sounds suspiciously like...oh, every other country making war on another country.

I must have missed the part where the American troops in Iraq rounded up most of the Iraqis and loaded them into cattle cars with no food and water and sent them off to some wasteland in the frozen north. And burned the ones who resisted alive.

Did you miss half a million dead Iraqis too? Or are you only counting the dead who are white?

Are you missing the part where American soldiers didn't kill those Iraqis? Most of them were killed by insurgents, ISIS, sectarian groups et cetera. And how disgusting of you to suggest "only counting the dead who are white."

Gee, that's like saying, I didn't kill that guy, I only put him in a box car with no food or water in subzero temperature. It's like...you want the freedom to fock up countries and total immunity from the bad stuff that happens in a focked-up country.

Ah right, right. It's America's fault because they didn't use their magic Hogwarts CIA Brain Washing Wand. They should have just waved it in the air and solved hundreds of years worth of Muslim sectarian divides, solved ISIS and everything else, like how they brainwashed all of those Ukrainian students into protesting Yanukovich. How foolish that they didn't think of that.

Yes, this is sarcasm. And it's clear where the different lines of bullshit Russian propaganda begin to collide with each other.

If only there was an option to do nothing and not invade!

Sure, just leave them alone. Should have let Iraq invade Kuwait. Should stop meddling and let Russia invade and annex Georgia, Ukraine and other countries. Everyone is allowed to invade but the US needs to stay in its corner, shut up, mind its own business and let them. Got it. I guess we should have just let the Nazis take over too. America is just constantly wrong no matter what it does. /s

Iraq is so, so much better off now! /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country”with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

LOL give them credit, at least it's full citizenship, and not, like, a Palestinian ID card while your Jewish neighbor has full citizenship upon arrival from Zhmerinka.

Ehhh... I think I recall seeing an article showing that the newly issued passports for the occupied territories have a lot of restrictions, conditions and limitations on them. They are being treated as second class citizens, not full Russian citizens.

The only restrictions I recall is other countries not accepting them. But please post a link if you find it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am Russian but have lived in the US for over a decade
I still have family there so I visit regularly and have been going even after the invasion (it’s become much more expensive and cumbersome fyi)
My guess is that Russia will be Iran on steroids. A geriatric regime, extremely conservative and on the brink of dictatorship (but not to the extent of North Korea). The economy will be militarized (the so called mobilization economy), people won’t starve and will be able to move freely (finances permitting). However there will be no innovation and not much vibrancy if you know what I mean. However there is a rich legacy of kitchen cultural life from the soviet times, as well as post soviet cultural renaissance, so it not going to be all doom and gloom.
Yes there will be brain drain but also there will be a sufficient number of technically talented people who are believers and can keep the austere military economy afloat. And there is a certain taste for overcoming difficulties in the “genes” of the population.
As for the war, it will be a slow churn, one step forward and two steps back. I feel bad for the annexed regions and their population. They will suffer no matter the outcome.
Some parts of Russia might be under shelling too (some already are but I mean cities and not just Belgorod).
Basically, there will be life but no one without ties to Russia will want to live a life like that.

Interesting! Does your family have access to information or are they also blinded by the Russian propaganda machine? Do you enlighten them?
Also, do you think that the "overcoming difficulties" gene is still strong, especially after Western exposure and luxuries? Even with the youth? I'd think it'd be waning.

Family: it depends. None of them is totally blinded by the propaganda but they all think that Ukraine went too far in trying to be with the West and rejecting Russia, the Russian language, etc.
They don’t phrase it like that but that’s the essence.
None of them can face the fact that the war, the power struggle was a huge mistake. They think there is “something” to it. Even those who think Putin and his cronies are criminals etc
I tried to share my POV but while they are all respectful they clearly think I have been brainwashed
The “overcoming difficulties” gene is still there in a lot of people. One of the things that surprised me in connection with this war is how few people have actually been exposed to Western values and luxury beyond Burger King and such. And Chinese phones are preferred over Apple by and large

They don't understand and accept that Ukraine moving to the West and rejecting Russia is a direct result of Russia's continual meddling and corrupting of Ukraine, their invasion in 2014?
They don't understand that it is Russia's own belligerent behavior that is also pushing Finland and Sweden into NATO?

Why did Russia invade in 2014?

In 2014, Ukraine wanted to join the EU. But Putin didn't want this, so he had his corrupt, criminal puppet Yanukovich betray and derail them. Students began protesting, Yanukovich sent Berkut to violently beat them down, this violence made a lot of people upset causing the protests to escalate, ultimately resulting in Yanukovich's ouster. Putin invaded out of revenge for Yanukovich's ouster.

DP. I want $1K and will never get it. These were the chances that Ukraine would join EU any time soon. This is a very superficial explanation of why Russia invaded and what Ukrainian Maidan leaders wanted.

Superficial? I'd suggest some superficiality on your part to casually ignore that the Verkhovna Rada voted on the Ukraine-EU agreement and it passed with a solid majority, before Yanukovich unilaterally scuttled the deal and announced that Ukraine would instead pursue closer ties with Russia.

The EU would not have signed it without significant changes and it was heavily conditioned on a number of things
Honestly I am surprised Russia seemed so upset by it. Europe was trying to lure Ukraine in but it wasn’t going to make it easy
But of course Ukraine shouldn’t have angered the bear without any real chances of getting anything
I don’t believe they didn’t know it was all illusion and they had a long way ahead of them
There must have been something else. Like maybe politicians just using some popular gimmicks to stay in power

Well, that's quite a take. I certainly don't think everyone that was pro-Maidan was as pure as the driven snow, but I also don't think it's a real stretch to believe that the relatively young population of Ukraine wanted something different than to be a Putin puppet state. If anyone overplayed their hand here, it's Putin, time and again.

I don’t blame them, I would rather have American or any of the EU citizenships than Russian, too.
However they needed to be realistic. The West wasn’t going to welcome them with open arms. Russia wasn’t going to let go of what it considered theirs.
This whole illusion of Ukraine being Europe (or worse, a cynical lie by certain politicians) is what brought Ukraine to a sad state it is in now.
Is it fair that it can’t leave Russia’s orbit, at least without major destruction? No! But is it true? Certainly yes.

I don't know that I agree with this. We can quibble about what "open arms" means here, but the fact that the West was rooting for Ukraine to succeed/stand on its own is exactly the issue. Too bad if Putin has a different interpretation of "his" than the rest of the world.

The west didn’t and doesn’t care about Ukraine one bit. I am not talking about gullible Americans but the governments. They care about having a stable predictable neighbor and about not letting Russia or China or anyone for that matter become strong enough to threaten the US and its allies.
This was the whole reason of dangling the EU carrot in front of Ukraine and Georgia. Apparently Georgians were a little smarter to keep their mouths shut about their EU ambitions and also more lucky since they are of less value to Russia than Ukraine. So now Ukraine bears the brunt of the Russian anger.
Again, I am not defending Russia but just explaining the reasoning

The west likes stability, and it likes good trade partners. And I know of a lot of Americans who worked with Ukraine and viewed Ukraine very favorably. Ukraine has a lot of good software developers and other innovators, in addition to its more traditional economy. If they didn't truly care about Ukraine there wouldn't even have been any carrots dangled.

Maybe we just have different definitions of care

Well, we've clearly and repeatedly seen the Russian definition of "care" - it's "do what we tell you to or we will blast your town into rubble and send any survivors that were left to freeze and starve to death in the middle of nowhere." I'll take western care over Russian care, thank you.

I can't tell if you're describing Iraq or Ukraine.

Russia definitely did this to Chechens. And now they are doing it to Ukraine as well. Totally beyond me what your weird insinuatin about "Iraq" is supposed to mean.

Just that your description of Russia's M.O. sounds suspiciously like...oh, every other country making war on another country.

I must have missed the part where the American troops in Iraq rounded up most of the Iraqis and loaded them into cattle cars with no food and water and sent them off to some wasteland in the frozen north. And burned the ones who resisted alive.

Did you miss half a million dead Iraqis too? Or are you only counting the dead who are white?

Are you missing the part where American soldiers didn't kill those Iraqis? Most of them were killed by insurgents, ISIS, sectarian groups et cetera. And how disgusting of you to suggest "only counting the dead who are white."

Gee, that's like saying, I didn't kill that guy, I only put him in a box car with no food or water in subzero temperature. It's like...you want the freedom to fock up countries and total immunity from the bad stuff that happens in a focked-up country.

Ah right, right. It's America's fault because they didn't use their magic Hogwarts CIA Brain Washing Wand. They should have just waved it in the air and solved hundreds of years worth of Muslim sectarian divides, solved ISIS and everything else, like how they brainwashed all of those Ukrainian students into protesting Yanukovich. How foolish that they didn't think of that.

Yes, this is sarcasm. And it's clear where the different lines of bullshit Russian propaganda begin to collide with each other.

If only there was an option to do nothing and not invade!

Sure, just leave them alone. Should have let Iraq invade Kuwait. Should stop meddling and let Russia invade and annex Georgia, Ukraine and other countries. Everyone is allowed to invade but the US needs to stay in its corner, shut up, mind its own business and let them. Got it. I guess we should have just let the Nazis take over too. America is just constantly wrong no matter what it does. /s

Why would Russia invade Ukraine or Georgia if the U.S. weren’t there meddling with their cookies and the EU prospects? They would have level headed governments happy to peruse Russian subsidies and not talking nonsense about their country being “part of Europe”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country”with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

DP.
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that Russia is kind and democratic and wants the best for their neighbors.
What I am saying (as well as the PP I think) is that the US is not much better and only cares for its own interests. Pot meet kettle

DP. You're a sick person. I think there's still a massive difference between the US and Russia.

"Up to 300 mercenaries from the Wagner Group (a private military company - ed.) have been hospitalised in Yuvileine’s multidisciplinary hospital No.15. Doctors are refusing to treat them because many of the fighters are suffering from HIV/AIDS, syphilis, tuberculosis and pneumonia."
https://news.yahoo.com/doctors-luhansk-oblast-village-refuse-045956270.html

"Russian soldiers raped me and killed my husband"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61071243

"Castration, gang-rape, forced nudity: How Russia’s soldiers terrorise Ukraine with sexual violence"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/how-russian-soldiers-terrorise-ukraine-sexual-violence/

"Rape "happening systematically" in Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine,"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-rape-allegations-russian-occupied-areas/

"in conflict zones only one in every 10 to 20 rapes are reported."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-mission-to-help-russias-rape-victims-in-the-ukraine-war

But its not just Ukrainians suffering. Now Russia is turning on itself. Russia is turning on its own future generations. Don't believe it? Here you go.

"Russia has quietly dropped a rule exempting fathers of three of more children from mobilisation"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11663177/Russia-quietly-drops-rule-exempting-fathers-three-children-mobilisation.html

You do understand what this means, right?

Imagine you're a family of five. Your wife, like a good Russian gal, did her patriotic duty and just gave birth to her new child. Daddy comes home, she's looking for a break from a long day taking care of the kids and boom - he announces he's been called up.

You know how Russia is - you're Russian, right? Is she going to get a lot help from Russian social services for daycare? Money for the formula? Maybe in Moscow or St Petersburg, if she lives in the right neighborhoods she might, but anywhere else?

No, I think Russia has sealed it's own fate, one way or another; if not war then by birthrate. I think the constant wars Russia starts are also why it's birthrate is less than two, it's emigration of young people is in the tens to hundreds of thousands annually, and why the Russian Army will get smaller and smaller every year. There is no great reunification of the Russian peoples as Putin hoped for; just older and older faces in the streets of dying cities. And you can't run a massive sized country with a shrinking population.

At the rate Russian draftees are fleeing the country, fathers of three or more are drafted and Russian males are being killed, I would imagine we'll see Russian birthrate drop by at least a few hundred thousand in the next few years; and the Russian population potentially shrinking by a third. I think this is why the Russian government is also homophobic and Putin wants to "unite" all Russians. Want proof?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1038013/crude-birth-rate-russia-1840-2020/
See the birthrate drop?

https://theodora.com/wfbcurrent/russia/russia_people.html
See the big dip in young men here? Ages 15 - 20? Right now, all productivity, innovation, factories, etc. in Russia is being driven by the 30 to 54 crowd. As those spikes move up towards the top of the graph in age, the spikes below are only about 2/3rds in height. That means that Russia's population would need to increase it's birthrate significantly from the current 1.5 to 3.0 to catch up.

But I also think Putin won't get that chance. I think Russias borders will slowly be absorbed by it's neighbors seeking more leg room as Russia shrinks. This is the reason why I think the crazy Russian oligarchs are pushing for nukes. The nutcases want to tip the scales to achieve their "golden billion". But to do that, they would have to nuke everyone in the World; including China, Africa, South America, Middle East.. but that won't go the way they think. They don't realize just how interconnected Russia still is to the rest of the planet; and yes, Cesium from Russia's own salted nukes will travel in the atmosphere to reach even the most remote regions of Russian territory, bringing misery by causing birth defects and deaths.

So you still think Russia is better? If so, you're just as crazy.

[Anonymous]

PP’s writing style is conspicuously like “everyone thinks Simonyan is Russian but she’s not!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country”with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

DP.
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that Russia is kind and democratic and wants the best for their neighbors.
What I am saying (as well as the PP I think) is that the US is not much better and only cares for its own interests. Pot meet kettle

DP. You're a sick person. I think there's still a massive difference between the US and Russia.

"Up to 300 mercenaries from the Wagner Group (a private military company - ed.) have been hospitalised in Yuvileine’s multidisciplinary hospital No.15. Doctors are refusing to treat them because many of the fighters are suffering from HIV/AIDS, syphilis, tuberculosis and pneumonia."
https://news.yahoo.com/doctors-luhansk-oblast-village-refuse-045956270.html

"Russian soldiers raped me and killed my husband"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61071243

"Castration, gang-rape, forced nudity: How Russia’s soldiers terrorise Ukraine with sexual violence"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/how-russian-soldiers-terrorise-ukraine-sexual-violence/

"Rape "happening systematically" in Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine,"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-rape-allegations-russian-occupied-areas/

"in conflict zones only one in every 10 to 20 rapes are reported."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-mission-to-help-russias-rape-victims-in-the-ukraine-war

But its not just Ukrainians suffering. Now Russia is turning on itself. Russia is turning on its own future generations. Don't believe it? Here you go.

"Russia has quietly dropped a rule exempting fathers of three of more children from mobilisation"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11663177/Russia-quietly-drops-rule-exempting-fathers-three-children-mobilisation.html

You do understand what this means, right?

Imagine you're a family of five. Your wife, like a good Russian gal, did her patriotic duty and just gave birth to her new child. Daddy comes home, she's looking for a break from a long day taking care of the kids and boom - he announces he's been called up.

You know how Russia is - you're Russian, right? Is she going to get a lot help from Russian social services for daycare? Money for the formula? Maybe in Moscow or St Petersburg, if she lives in the right neighborhoods she might, but anywhere else?

No, I think Russia has sealed it's own fate, one way or another; if not war then by birthrate. I think the constant wars Russia starts are also why it's birthrate is less than two, it's emigration of young people is in the tens to hundreds of thousands annually, and why the Russian Army will get smaller and smaller every year. There is no great reunification of the Russian peoples as Putin hoped for; just older and older faces in the streets of dying cities. And you can't run a massive sized country with a shrinking population.

At the rate Russian draftees are fleeing the country, fathers of three or more are drafted and Russian males are being killed, I would imagine we'll see Russian birthrate drop by at least a few hundred thousand in the next few years; and the Russian population potentially shrinking by a third. I think this is why the Russian government is also homophobic and Putin wants to "unite" all Russians. Want proof?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1038013/crude-birth-rate-russia-1840-2020/
See the birthrate drop?

https://theodora.com/wfbcurrent/russia/russia_people.html
See the big dip in young men here? Ages 15 - 20? Right now, all productivity, innovation, factories, etc. in Russia is being driven by the 30 to 54 crowd. As those spikes move up towards the top of the graph in age, the spikes below are only about 2/3rds in height. That means that Russia's population would need to increase it's birthrate significantly from the current 1.5 to 3.0 to catch up.

But I also think Putin won't get that chance. I think Russias borders will slowly be absorbed by it's neighbors seeking more leg room as Russia shrinks. This is the reason why I think the crazy Russian oligarchs are pushing for nukes. The nutcases want to tip the scales to achieve their "golden billion". But to do that, they would have to nuke everyone in the World; including China, Africa, South America, Middle East.. but that won't go the way they think. They don't realize just how interconnected Russia still is to the rest of the planet; and yes, Cesium from Russia's own salted nukes will travel in the atmosphere to reach even the most remote regions of Russian territory, bringing misery by causing birth defects and deaths.

So you still think Russia is better? If so, you're just as crazy.

"US is no different than Russia" is such a lie. Russia has been shooting its own troops if they try to retreat from the front https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11393197/Putin-turns-men-brings-blocking-units-shoot-retreating-soldiers.html - and when did the US last, if ever pull rapists and murderers from prisons and send them to the front lines as Russia has been doing? You can't #bothsides Russia vs US with a straight face.

That, and trying to lump in, equate, and ascribe direct US responsibility to the actions of others, like ISIS terrorists in Iraq blowing up hundreds of Iraqi civilians with Russians directly targeting and killing civilians in apartment buildings, hospitals and schools with heavy artillery and missile strikes. Russians firing tanks directly at convoys of fleeing civilians trying to evacuate. Russians firing directly on ambulances. Beating captives' brains in with sledgehammers. and the leader of their group giving out sledgehammers as gifts to his men. Russians using a whole range of weapons and criminal tactics banned by the Geneva convention. There is NO comparing the grotesque barbarism and savagery the Russians have exhibited with anything the US did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country”with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

DP.
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that Russia is kind and democratic and wants the best for their neighbors.
What I am saying (as well as the PP I think) is that the US is not much better and only cares for its own interests. Pot meet kettle

DP. You're a sick person. I think there's still a massive difference between the US and Russia.

"Up to 300 mercenaries from the Wagner Group (a private military company - ed.) have been hospitalised in Yuvileine’s multidisciplinary hospital No.15. Doctors are refusing to treat them because many of the fighters are suffering from HIV/AIDS, syphilis, tuberculosis and pneumonia."
https://news.yahoo.com/doctors-luhansk-oblast-village-refuse-045956270.html

"Russian soldiers raped me and killed my husband"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61071243

"Castration, gang-rape, forced nudity: How Russia’s soldiers terrorise Ukraine with sexual violence"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/how-russian-soldiers-terrorise-ukraine-sexual-violence/

"Rape "happening systematically" in Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine,"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-rape-allegations-russian-occupied-areas/

"in conflict zones only one in every 10 to 20 rapes are reported."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-mission-to-help-russias-rape-victims-in-the-ukraine-war

But its not just Ukrainians suffering. Now Russia is turning on itself. Russia is turning on its own future generations. Don't believe it? Here you go.

"Russia has quietly dropped a rule exempting fathers of three of more children from mobilisation"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11663177/Russia-quietly-drops-rule-exempting-fathers-three-children-mobilisation.html

You do understand what this means, right?

Imagine you're a family of five. Your wife, like a good Russian gal, did her patriotic duty and just gave birth to her new child. Daddy comes home, she's looking for a break from a long day taking care of the kids and boom - he announces he's been called up.

You know how Russia is - you're Russian, right? Is she going to get a lot help from Russian social services for daycare? Money for the formula? Maybe in Moscow or St Petersburg, if she lives in the right neighborhoods she might, but anywhere else?

No, I think Russia has sealed it's own fate, one way or another; if not war then by birthrate. I think the constant wars Russia starts are also why it's birthrate is less than two, it's emigration of young people is in the tens to hundreds of thousands annually, and why the Russian Army will get smaller and smaller every year. There is no great reunification of the Russian peoples as Putin hoped for; just older and older faces in the streets of dying cities. And you can't run a massive sized country with a shrinking population.

At the rate Russian draftees are fleeing the country, fathers of three or more are drafted and Russian males are being killed, I would imagine we'll see Russian birthrate drop by at least a few hundred thousand in the next few years; and the Russian population potentially shrinking by a third. I think this is why the Russian government is also homophobic and Putin wants to "unite" all Russians. Want proof?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1038013/crude-birth-rate-russia-1840-2020/
See the birthrate drop?

https://theodora.com/wfbcurrent/russia/russia_people.html
See the big dip in young men here? Ages 15 - 20? Right now, all productivity, innovation, factories, etc. in Russia is being driven by the 30 to 54 crowd. As those spikes move up towards the top of the graph in age, the spikes below are only about 2/3rds in height. That means that Russia's population would need to increase it's birthrate significantly from the current 1.5 to 3.0 to catch up.

But I also think Putin won't get that chance. I think Russias borders will slowly be absorbed by it's neighbors seeking more leg room as Russia shrinks. This is the reason why I think the crazy Russian oligarchs are pushing for nukes. The nutcases want to tip the scales to achieve their "golden billion". But to do that, they would have to nuke everyone in the World; including China, Africa, South America, Middle East.. but that won't go the way they think. They don't realize just how interconnected Russia still is to the rest of the planet; and yes, Cesium from Russia's own salted nukes will travel in the atmosphere to reach even the most remote regions of Russian territory, bringing misery by causing birth defects and deaths.

So you still think Russia is better? If so, you're just as crazy.

"US is no different than Russia" is such a lie. Russia has been shooting its own troops if they try to retreat from the front https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11393197/Putin-turns-men-brings-blocking-units-shoot-retreating-soldiers.html - and when did the US last, if ever pull rapists and murderers from prisons and send them to the front lines as Russia has been doing? You can't #bothsides Russia vs US with a straight face.

That, and trying to lump in, equate, and ascribe direct US responsibility to the actions of others, like ISIS terrorists in Iraq blowing up hundreds of Iraqi civilians with Russians directly targeting and killing civilians in apartment buildings, hospitals and schools with heavy artillery and missile strikes. Russians firing tanks directly at convoys of fleeing civilians trying to evacuate. Russians firing directly on ambulances. Beating captives' brains in with sledgehammers. and the leader of their group giving out sledgehammers as gifts to his men. Russians using a whole range of weapons and criminal tactics banned by the Geneva convention. There is NO comparing the grotesque barbarism and savagery the Russians have exhibited with anything the US did.

But don't you realize, that the ends justify the means for Russia? When Russians kill, torture, rape, pillage, subjugate, it's because the other people are just inferior. They are either like Chechens who are obviously barbaric and terrorists by their genetics, Ukrainians who are of course Nazis, or Georgians, Estonians or anyone else who are obviously fake nations set up by the CIA. /SARCASM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clueless Russian, after having invaded, oppressed, suppressed and repeatedly genocided Chechens for the last 250 years:

"Gee, I just don't get why these Chechens are so angry. They're just bad people, that's all."

They are bad to each other, too.

For instance, it wasn't Russians who made Chechens give custody exclusively to fathers in case of divorce, and bar access to mothers. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens the blood vendetta. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that women who marry out must be excommunicated or killed. It wasn't Russians who taught Chechens that a dead son is preferred to a gay son. That's self taught.

Even if it were all true, Russians could have just left them alone.

And Russians can be homophobic too, and plenty of Russian men beat their wives, are alcoholics, gangsters and thugs. At least Chechens don’t drink. The difference is one group wants to impose their way of life and political influence over others. The other just wanted to be left alone.

What do you mean? It IS all true.

The world saw what happened in Chechnya when it was kinda sorta left alone. It was not pretty. There is no viable path to independence for them, and no one wants a salafi funded failed state next door. So, no. I find it curious that you think any part of Russia that wants to be "left alone" needs to immediately be set free, but god forbid a part of Azerbaijan wants to be independent, or a part of Ukraine, too. Then you all are like, "territorial integrity!" That's apparently only for some countries and not for others. Good to know! Just like civil rights.

You are really trying to tell me that the “separatist” republics in Eastern Ukraine are actual freedom fighters that want self governance and Russia is just backing the little guy? Haha. Why is Russia trying to annex them?

Like you really think we believe that in 2008 Russia suddenly cared for the liberation of the Abkhaz people? And South Ossetia, a “country”with the same population as Silver Spring, Maryland? Give me a BREAK. Why do they all have Russian passports now?
What other conclusion can we draw other than Russia wanting to rebuild an empire?

But the damn Chechens in the early 90s just got too uppity.

I’m as critical of US foreign policy (and domestic policy, for that matter) as the next person. I myself lean left. One thing holds true though. People for various reasons WANT to come to America and become Americans. Whereas people become Russians (россияне) by force and violence.

DP.
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that Russia is kind and democratic and wants the best for their neighbors.
What I am saying (as well as the PP I think) is that the US is not much better and only cares for its own interests. Pot meet kettle

DP. You're a sick person. I think there's still a massive difference between the US and Russia.

"Up to 300 mercenaries from the Wagner Group (a private military company - ed.) have been hospitalised in Yuvileine’s multidisciplinary hospital No.15. Doctors are refusing to treat them because many of the fighters are suffering from HIV/AIDS, syphilis, tuberculosis and pneumonia."
https://news.yahoo.com/doctors-luhansk-oblast-village-refuse-045956270.html

"Russian soldiers raped me and killed my husband"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61071243

"Castration, gang-rape, forced nudity: How Russia’s soldiers terrorise Ukraine with sexual violence"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/how-russian-soldiers-terrorise-ukraine-sexual-violence/

"Rape "happening systematically" in Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine,"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-rape-allegations-russian-occupied-areas/

"in conflict zones only one in every 10 to 20 rapes are reported."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-mission-to-help-russias-rape-victims-in-the-ukraine-war

But its not just Ukrainians suffering. Now Russia is turning on itself. Russia is turning on its own future generations. Don't believe it? Here you go.

"Russia has quietly dropped a rule exempting fathers of three of more children from mobilisation"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11663177/Russia-quietly-drops-rule-exempting-fathers-three-children-mobilisation.html

You do understand what this means, right?

Imagine you're a family of five. Your wife, like a good Russian gal, did her patriotic duty and just gave birth to her new child. Daddy comes home, she's looking for a break from a long day taking care of the kids and boom - he announces he's been called up.

You know how Russia is - you're Russian, right? Is she going to get a lot help from Russian social services for daycare? Money for the formula? Maybe in Moscow or St Petersburg, if she lives in the right neighborhoods she might, but anywhere else?

No, I think Russia has sealed it's own fate, one way or another; if not war then by birthrate. I think the constant wars Russia starts are also why it's birthrate is less than two, it's emigration of young people is in the tens to hundreds of thousands annually, and why the Russian Army will get smaller and smaller every year. There is no great reunification of the Russian peoples as Putin hoped for; just older and older faces in the streets of dying cities. And you can't run a massive sized country with a shrinking population.

At the rate Russian draftees are fleeing the country, fathers of three or more are drafted and Russian males are being killed, I would imagine we'll see Russian birthrate drop by at least a few hundred thousand in the next few years; and the Russian population potentially shrinking by a third. I think this is why the Russian government is also homophobic and Putin wants to "unite" all Russians. Want proof?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1038013/crude-birth-rate-russia-1840-2020/
See the birthrate drop?

https://theodora.com/wfbcurrent/russia/russia_people.html
See the big dip in young men here? Ages 15 - 20? Right now, all productivity, innovation, factories, etc. in Russia is being driven by the 30 to 54 crowd. As those spikes move up towards the top of the graph in age, the spikes below are only about 2/3rds in height. That means that Russia's population would need to increase it's birthrate significantly from the current 1.5 to 3.0 to catch up.

But I also think Putin won't get that chance. I think Russias borders will slowly be absorbed by it's neighbors seeking more leg room as Russia shrinks. This is the reason why I think the crazy Russian oligarchs are pushing for nukes. The nutcases want to tip the scales to achieve their "golden billion". But to do that, they would have to nuke everyone in the World; including China, Africa, South America, Middle East.. but that won't go the way they think. They don't realize just how interconnected Russia still is to the rest of the planet; and yes, Cesium from Russia's own salted nukes will travel in the atmosphere to reach even the most remote regions of Russian territory, bringing misery by causing birth defects and deaths.

So you still think Russia is better? If so, you're just as crazy.

When did I say Russia was better? I am only saying that the well being of Ukrainians or anyone really is the least of the US’s concerns. It is the same for each and every country in the world. Some of them are better controlled by their own citizens (and yes the US Is a denocracy) so they keep their actions in better check. if i were a small country of course i would serve the US. but it doesnt mean the US has my best interests at heart. its just a better boss but its still a boss, a class enemy so to speak