The cruelty and misogyny of forced birth politics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You’re simply close minded. You think you know better than everyone else and have shut your mind to the possibility that the issue is NOT about a woman’s choice at all. It’s about something more fundamental… when does human life begin? But, go ahead and hate all men. That is your prerogative.

As far as the state … they can take peoples lives (death penalty) … they can put people in prison. They do this to a lot more men then women too, so does the state hate men too? No, the state is simply a reflection of the people and the people in some states are very religious and elect and vote upon those lines. It’s not because they hate women, it is because they believe an unborn fetus is a person and thou shalt not kill. Funny enough they also believe in an eye for an eye so they vote for the death penalty. Anyhow, you’ll continue to never convince anyone of your point of view due to your strong hatred of men and insistence that pro lifers are so because they hate women. Just a dumb argument.

This. I often see the argument from liberal pro-choice voters that the pro life crowd hates women. I disagree. I am pro-choice and a moderate but grew up in a very conservative, almost fundamentalist society. My impression is that this group of people thinks you’re killing a baby. If anything, the women are ignored. There isn’t anymore hatred of women than from the left. If anything, they think women should be worshipped and that their job of giving birth is an important one. There seemed to be almost an obsession with having babies and raising a family. I truly don’t think they hate women anymore than any other group hates women. If anything it’s just a strong opinion that the fetus is a baby.

I also don’t think that many liberal pro-choice voters understand how many people don’t support killing babies. My own husband is fairly liberal and after recent ultrasounds has talked about how he could never support a woman getting an abortion. That it’s cruel. Objectively, I support abortion fully but I also recognize and understand why people dislike it.

Yes, the pp who compared having an abortion to stepping on a cockroach or killing a mouse in your home…that’s the people that make me be pro-choice. Total disregard that a life is being taken. In an imperfect world, allowance has to be made for difficult decisions. But comparing a pre-born child ti a bug or rodent is just awful.

How about compared to a dog? Or a whale? How about a black person’s fertilized egg vs. a white person’s? I.e. making you think critically about the randomness of your choices makes you pro-choice? How odd. It sounds like you’re pro “your” choice and not other’s choices. What about the choice of one person to not allow another person to take a third “person’s” life? Is that not a valid choice? Or again, as I keep saying over and over: the only choice is to determine when something is in fact a “person.” Then prior to that time: do what you will with your body. After that time it is no longer just your body and therefore no longer just your choice. Why can’t you people comprehend this logic? I know why, because you’re conditioned to think based upon other’s opinions and culture and societal norms instead of thinking logically, emotionless, for yourselves based on science and fact. You inject BS like religion and men controlling women, and economics, and availability of clinics, and all this noise into a simple question: when is the entity a person and when is it not? To be or not to be, that IS the only question.

Pregnancy is a potentially dangerous and lethal condition. Women are human beings living in this world who should not be forced against their will to go through such a process that will change their body forever even if it doesn’t kill them.

Most pro-choice people are hypocrites. They only believe in a woman’s choice about her right to live / have a certain quality of life when it comes to pregnancy. They don’t really believe women or anyone else should have total control over their bodies and lives.

You're arguing that most pro-choice people are Republicans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You’re simply close minded. You think you know better than everyone else and have shut your mind to the possibility that the issue is NOT about a woman’s choice at all. It’s about something more fundamental… when does human life begin? But, go ahead and hate all men. That is your prerogative.

As far as the state … they can take peoples lives (death penalty) … they can put people in prison. They do this to a lot more men then women too, so does the state hate men too? No, the state is simply a reflection of the people and the people in some states are very religious and elect and vote upon those lines. It’s not because they hate women, it is because they believe an unborn fetus is a person and thou shalt not kill. Funny enough they also believe in an eye for an eye so they vote for the death penalty. Anyhow, you’ll continue to never convince anyone of your point of view due to your strong hatred of men and insistence that pro lifers are so because they hate women. Just a dumb argument.

This. I often see the argument from liberal pro-choice voters that the pro life crowd hates women. I disagree. I am pro-choice and a moderate but grew up in a very conservative, almost fundamentalist society. My impression is that this group of people thinks you’re killing a baby. If anything, the women are ignored. There isn’t anymore hatred of women than from the left. If anything, they think women should be worshipped and that their job of giving birth is an important one. There seemed to be almost an obsession with having babies and raising a family. I truly don’t think they hate women anymore than any other group hates women. If anything it’s just a strong opinion that the fetus is a baby.

I also don’t think that many liberal pro-choice voters understand how many people don’t support killing babies. My own husband is fairly liberal and after recent ultrasounds has talked about how he could never support a woman getting an abortion. That it’s cruel. Objectively, I support abortion fully but I also recognize and understand why people dislike it.

Yes, the pp who compared having an abortion to stepping on a cockroach or killing a mouse in your home…that’s the people that make me be pro-choice. Total disregard that a life is being taken. In an imperfect world, allowance has to be made for difficult decisions. But comparing a pre-born child ti a bug or rodent is just awful.

How about compared to a dog? Or a whale? How about a black person’s fertilized egg vs. a white person’s? I.e. making you think critically about the randomness of your choices makes you pro-choice? How odd. It sounds like you’re pro “your” choice and not other’s choices. What about the choice of one person to not allow another person to take a third “person’s” life? Is that not a valid choice? Or again, as I keep saying over and over: the only choice is to determine when something is in fact a “person.” Then prior to that time: do what you will with your body. After that time it is no longer just your body and therefore no longer just your choice. Why can’t you people comprehend this logic? I know why, because you’re conditioned to think based upon other’s opinions and culture and societal norms instead of thinking logically, emotionless, for yourselves based on science and fact. You inject BS like religion and men controlling women, and economics, and availability of clinics, and all this noise into a simple question: when is the entity a person and when is it not? To be or not to be, that IS the only question.

Pregnancy is a potentially dangerous and lethal condition. Women are human beings living in this world who should not be forced against their will to go through such a process that will change their body forever even if it doesn’t kill them.

Most pro-choice people are hypocrites. They only believe in a woman’s choice about her right to live / have a certain quality of life when it comes to pregnancy. They don’t really believe women or anyone else should have total control over their bodies and lives.

Dp- You don’t know what you are talking about. I’m embarrassed for you.

I don’t see them clamoring to support self-euthanization as one glaring example.

Where are your statistics that people who support death-with-dignity laws are anti-abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If pregnancy isn’t being forced, birth isn’t being forced.

Pregnancy is being forced.

Sex education is abysmal. Rape kits aren't being tested.

[Anonymous]

If you don’t want to be pregnant, and the state won’t allow you access to needed healthcare, you are being forced to remain pregnant.
Then you will be forced to give birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You’re simply close minded. You think you know better than everyone else and have shut your mind to the possibility that the issue is NOT about a woman’s choice at all. It’s about something more fundamental… when does human life begin? But, go ahead and hate all men. That is your prerogative.

As far as the state … they can take peoples lives (death penalty) … they can put people in prison. They do this to a lot more men then women too, so does the state hate men too? No, the state is simply a reflection of the people and the people in some states are very religious and elect and vote upon those lines. It’s not because they hate women, it is because they believe an unborn fetus is a person and thou shalt not kill. Funny enough they also believe in an eye for an eye so they vote for the death penalty. Anyhow, you’ll continue to never convince anyone of your point of view due to your strong hatred of men and insistence that pro lifers are so because they hate women. Just a dumb argument.

This. I often see the argument from liberal pro-choice voters that the pro life crowd hates women. I disagree. I am pro-choice and a moderate but grew up in a very conservative, almost fundamentalist society. My impression is that this group of people thinks you’re killing a baby. If anything, the women are ignored. There isn’t anymore hatred of women than from the left. If anything, they think women should be worshipped and that their job of giving birth is an important one. There seemed to be almost an obsession with having babies and raising a family. I truly don’t think they hate women anymore than any other group hates women. If anything it’s just a strong opinion that the fetus is a baby.

I also don’t think that many liberal pro-choice voters understand how many people don’t support killing babies. My own husband is fairly liberal and after recent ultrasounds has talked about how he could never support a woman getting an abortion. That it’s cruel. Objectively, I support abortion fully but I also recognize and understand why people dislike it.

Yes, the pp who compared having an abortion to stepping on a cockroach or killing a mouse in your home…that’s the people that make me be pro-choice. Total disregard that a life is being taken. In an imperfect world, allowance has to be made for difficult decisions. But comparing a pre-born child ti a bug or rodent is just awful.

How about compared to a dog? Or a whale? How about a black person’s fertilized egg vs. a white person’s? I.e. making you think critically about the randomness of your choices makes you pro-choice? How odd. It sounds like you’re pro “your” choice and not other’s choices. What about the choice of one person to not allow another person to take a third “person’s” life? Is that not a valid choice? Or again, as I keep saying over and over: the only choice is to determine when something is in fact a “person.” Then prior to that time: do what you will with your body. After that time it is no longer just your body and therefore no longer just your choice. Why can’t you people comprehend this logic? I know why, because you’re conditioned to think based upon other’s opinions and culture and societal norms instead of thinking logically, emotionless, for yourselves based on science and fact. You inject BS like religion and men controlling women, and economics, and availability of clinics, and all this noise into a simple question: when is the entity a person and when is it not? To be or not to be, that IS the only question.

Pregnancy is a potentially dangerous and lethal condition. Women are human beings living in this world who should not be forced against their will to go through such a process that will change their body forever even if it doesn’t kill them.

Most pro-choice people are hypocrites. They only believe in a woman’s choice about her right to live / have a certain quality of life when it comes to pregnancy. They don’t really believe women or anyone else should have total control over their bodies and lives.

Dp- You don’t know what you are talking about. I’m embarrassed for you.

I don’t see them clamoring to support self-euthanization as one glaring example.

Where are your statistics that people who support death-with-dignity laws are anti-abortion?

+1 The forced birth party is the one that tortured Teri Schiavo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If pregnancy isn’t being forced, birth isn’t being forced.

Pregnancy is being forced.

Sex education is abysmal. Rape kits aren't being tested.

Pregnancy is not being forced. 1% of women report they are seeking abortion because of rape; less than 1% seek abortion because of incest.

The vast vast majority of abortion is sought because of lifestyle choices.

Pregnancy is not being forced. If pregnancy is not being forced, neither is birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If pregnancy isn’t being forced, birth isn’t being forced.

Pregnancy is being forced.

Sex education is abysmal. Rape kits aren't being tested.

Pregnancy is not being forced. 1% of women report they are seeking abortion because of rape; less than 1% seek abortion because of incest.

The vast vast majority of abortion is sought because of lifestyle choices.

Pregnancy is not being forced. If pregnancy is not being forced, neither is birth.

You seem to think that consent to sex is the same as consent to pregnancy and birth. That’s not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[…]

Pregnancy is not being forced. 1% of women report they are seeking abortion because of rape; less than 1% seek abortion because of incest.

The vast vast majority of abortion is sought because of lifestyle choices.

Pregnancy is not being forced. If pregnancy is not being forced, neither is birth.

If the state is preventing women from ending a pregnancy, then a woman is being forced to be pregnant.

And the forced birth party is doing a bang up job of making sure that women can’t afford pregnancies. They support business and the “free market,” they will countenance absolutely no meaningful help that would help lift women out of poverty. They hate any kind of food aid. They’re opposed to birth control, they stopped the Colorado program that gave teenagers IUDs and absolutely tanked the unplanned pregnancy rates (and hence reduced the abortion rates, too). Forced birthers hate sexual education unless it’s “Jesus said never have sex.”

Forced birthers truly just want to punish women for being women, but especially any woman who has sex.

[Anonymous]

It always always always comes down to slut shaming
Every. Single. Time.
It’s forced birth. Call it what it is.
Don’t let them frame the debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If pregnancy isn’t being forced, birth isn’t being forced.

Pregnancy is being forced.

Sex education is abysmal. Rape kits aren't being tested.

Pregnancy is not being forced. 1% of women report they are seeking abortion because of rape; less than 1% seek abortion because of incest.

The vast vast majority of abortion is sought because of lifestyle choices.

Pregnancy is not being forced. If pregnancy is not being forced, neither is birth.

You seem to think that consent to sex is the same as consent to pregnancy and birth. That’s not the case.

Women don’t know sex may result in pregnancy? Next you will say overeating will cause women to be fat, and they didn’t consent to the calories.

Where is the personal responsibility? Pregnancy can be prevented. Quit pretending women are dumb and/or helpless. Termination of pregnancy isn’t healthcare. Health care takes place in a medical clinic or hospital. Abortion clinics don’t provide that; they provide abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[…]

Pregnancy is not being forced. 1% of women report they are seeking abortion because of rape; less than 1% seek abortion because of incest.

The vast vast majority of abortion is sought because of lifestyle choices.

Pregnancy is not being forced. If pregnancy is not being forced, neither is birth.

If the state is preventing women from ending a pregnancy, then a woman is being forced to be pregnant.

And the forced birth party is doing a bang up job of making sure that women can’t afford pregnancies. They support business and the “free market,” they will countenance absolutely no meaningful help that would help lift women out of poverty. They hate any kind of food aid. They’re opposed to birth control, they stopped the Colorado program that gave teenagers IUDs and absolutely tanked the unplanned pregnancy rates (and hence reduced the abortion rates, too). Forced birthers hate sexual education unless it’s “Jesus said never have sex.”

Forced birthers truly just want to punish women for being women, but especially any woman who has sex.

Women who have sex and then are shocked they are pregnant sound utterly terrible. Have sex all you want, use birth control to prevent pregnancy. Simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It always always always comes down to slut shaming
Every. Single. Time.
It’s forced birth. Call it what it is.
Don’t let them frame the debate.

No, it’s not. It’s the simple fact that women have sex and don’t want to be pregnant, and women have the capacity to be pregnant. It’s not rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[…]

Pregnancy is not being forced. 1% of women report they are seeking abortion because of rape; less than 1% seek abortion because of incest.

The vast vast majority of abortion is sought because of lifestyle choices.

Pregnancy is not being forced. If pregnancy is not being forced, neither is birth.

If the state is preventing women from ending a pregnancy, then a woman is being forced to be pregnant.

And the forced birth party is doing a bang up job of making sure that women can’t afford pregnancies. They support business and the “free market,” they will countenance absolutely no meaningful help that would help lift women out of poverty. They hate any kind of food aid. They’re opposed to birth control, they stopped the Colorado program that gave teenagers IUDs and absolutely tanked the unplanned pregnancy rates (and hence reduced the abortion rates, too). Forced birthers hate sexual education unless it’s “Jesus said never have sex.”

Forced birthers truly just want to punish women for being women, but especially any woman who has sex.

Women who have sex and then are shocked they are pregnant sound utterly terrible. Have sex all you want, use birth control to prevent pregnancy. Simple.

It’s not simple. Also abortion will always be. You can’t stop it. Women have been terminating pregnancies for a millennia. But maybe that’s your goal? Force women into back alleys to bleed out? Is that your plan? They are stupid and deserve it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If pregnancy isn’t being forced, birth isn’t being forced.

Pregnancy is being forced.

Sex education is abysmal. Rape kits aren't being tested.

Pregnancy is not being forced. 1% of women report they are seeking abortion because of rape; less than 1% seek abortion because of incest.

The vast vast majority of abortion is sought because of lifestyle choices.

Pregnancy is not being forced. If pregnancy is not being forced, neither is birth.

You seem to think that consent to sex is the same as consent to pregnancy and birth. That’s not the case.

Women don’t know sex may result in pregnancy? Next you will say overeating will cause women to be fat, and they didn’t consent to the calories.

Where is the personal responsibility? Pregnancy can be prevented. Quit pretending women are dumb and/or helpless. Termination of pregnancy isn’t healthcare. Health care takes place in a medical clinic or hospital. Abortion clinics don’t provide that; they provide abortion.

Pregnancy can be prevented, and not all women are dumb and/or helpless, but the fact is that HALF of the pregnancies that happen in America are unplanned. And having an abortion when you didn’t plan to have a baby IS taking personal responsibility. It’s also healthcare. And clinics which provide abortions also provide other kinds of healthcare, including birth control to help eliminate unplanned pregnancies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[…]

Pregnancy is not being forced. 1% of women report they are seeking abortion because of rape; less than 1% seek abortion because of incest.

The vast vast majority of abortion is sought because of lifestyle choices.

Pregnancy is not being forced. If pregnancy is not being forced, neither is birth.

If the state is preventing women from ending a pregnancy, then a woman is being forced to be pregnant.

And the forced birth party is doing a bang up job of making sure that women can’t afford pregnancies. They support business and the “free market,” they will countenance absolutely no meaningful help that would help lift women out of poverty. They hate any kind of food aid. They’re opposed to birth control, they stopped the Colorado program that gave teenagers IUDs and absolutely tanked the unplanned pregnancy rates (and hence reduced the abortion rates, too). Forced birthers hate sexual education unless it’s “Jesus said never have sex.”

Forced birthers truly just want to punish women for being women, but especially any woman who has sex.

Women who have sex and then are shocked they are pregnant sound utterly terrible. Have sex all you want, use birth control to prevent pregnancy. Simple.

That’s great in a world in which all birth control methods are 100% effective with typical use. This is not that world.