Luxury Assisted Living No Longer Worth It?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does her foods and rent cost $6.5k but her monthly expenses are $9k?

The delta is usually care support with activities of daily living (dressing, bathing, assistance to bathroom, medication management, etc). Requires labor / care workers sometime multiple of them. This is what OP’s SIL would be assuming responsibility for. 24 hours a day 7 days a week... until someone dies.

Plus medication management. Where my mom was that cost $900 per month. She needed a lot of different medications and the nursing staff managed all of the prescriptions, refills and made sure she got every medication right on schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies. The assisted living facility is barely one. There is no 'next step' in the facility for when MIL needs extensive additional care.

The $2500 additional monthly expenses are the $25 hourly charge for any additional help which she needs a few times a year for several weeks, dental bills, medical copays, supplies for her 2BD apartment within the facility, prescription copays including full pay at certain times of the year, and she likes to keep some food in her fridge for when the delivered meals are not to her liking.

Yes, it's a bit high I agree. Could revisit those expenses again but don't want my MIL to feel that she is being nickeled and dimed.

Mostly I am super annoyed at my BIL. When my FIL died, he sort of ran over all of us and moved my MIL into this most expensive facility. We felt is was too expensive based on the money/income she had. But BIL is a big shot and SWORE he would cover it if/when it came to that. After several years, he decided he no longer wanted to cover it. DH and I committed to the $2K a month to keep the peace and MIL was happy -- but this was all pre-covid.

In reading everyone's response I think it is better if I just leave it alone. I doubt the sister really wants to be the primary caregiver and moving MIL into a nearby apartment while less expensive is not going to be easy to set up and if MIL's facility does open up a bit more -- we will regret having moved her.

My MIL lives in Palm Desert; my SIL in Beverly Hills; and we (DH and I) live in Colorado.

I like most am worried about money. We did tell the BIL that if my DH loses his job we will no longer be able to pay the monthly $2K.

I agree you need to be very clear with the family about what you can and can’t afford. That is the one thing in this situation that you have some control over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds high? did she NOT own a home when she moved there.

My mom lives in one of these communities but that is way more than she pays.

The $4K should cover it.

Where? In Kansas? Round the clock care for my friend’s grandmother was close to $180,000 a year.

That sounds like skilled nursing care. OP is talking about assisted living where they have their own apartments and just get meals and activities.

[Anonymous]

Why does she need a 2 bedroom. Can you see about downgrading her to a one bedroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies. The assisted living facility is barely one. There is no 'next step' in the facility for when MIL needs extensive additional care.

The $2500 additional monthly expenses are the $25 hourly charge for any additional help which she needs a few times a year for several weeks, dental bills, medical copays, supplies for her 2BD apartment within the facility, prescription copays including full pay at certain times of the year, and she likes to keep some food in her fridge for when the delivered meals are not to her liking.

Yes, it's a bit high I agree. Could revisit those expenses again but don't want my MIL to feel that she is being nickeled and dimed.

Mostly I am super annoyed at my BIL. When my FIL died, he sort of ran over all of us and moved my MIL into this most expensive facility. We felt is was too expensive based on the money/income she had. But BIL is a big shot and SWORE he would cover it if/when it came to that. After several years, he decided he no longer wanted to cover it. DH and I committed to the $2K a month to keep the peace and MIL was happy -- but this was all pre-covid.

In reading everyone's response I think it is better if I just leave it alone. I doubt the sister really wants to be the primary caregiver and moving MIL into a nearby apartment while less expensive is not going to be easy to set up and if MIL's facility does open up a bit more -- we will regret having moved her.

My MIL lives in Palm Desert; my SIL in Beverly Hills; and we (DH and I) live in Colorado.

I like most am worried about money. We did tell the BIL that if my DH loses his job we will no longer be able to pay the monthly $2K.

Look around for options in Colorado and see if you can find a more affordable place near you. Or keep paying the 2K and hope/pray that your BIL continues to pay his share because he sounds like the type of guy who might stop paying. If he stops paying would the assisted living come after you for his share of the payment?

I absolutely hate this scenario that you guys are in. Obviously, it would have been better if you had been more involved with your MIL's placement from the get go. Your BIL clearly has champagne tastes on Bud light budget.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like staying in place or moving to the home of the daughter willing to take care of her are the best options. If she's moves to the home, a lot of that money will be needed to prepare the home and pay for caregivers so cost may be about the same for the first couple of months and then go down. MIL would be much happier with social contact with the daughter, than no one else. And I don't think this pandemic is going to end anytime soon, so this is MILs life for the foreseeable future.

And there is no way a frail elderly person would be able to live by themselves in a regular apartment and Uber to see friends who probably won't be allowed to visit her anyhow.

As long as the daughter is willing to take this huge task on, it sounds like a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of the retirement communities have put these measurements in place to protect their vulnerable residents. They have pretty much all suspended social activities, outings, dining room operations, most entertainment.

If your MIL is paying 9K/month for "assisted living" and the only thing that they assist her with is room service then that cost does seem really high. If she's there because she needs help with medication, dressing, bathing, etc then the 9K makes a bit more sense. If she's there because it gives you all piece of mind that she is checked on 3 times a day, that makes sense.

I think that having a vulnerable, elderly person living in your home right now would be especially difficult. I've heard some horror stories about home healthcare workers not showing up or being impossible to find. That probably isn't something that your SIL factored in when she was speaking of your MIL moving in with her. Is she willing to put her life on hold, never go on vacation and provide heavy duty physical assistance to your MIL for potentially years to come?

Personally, I don't think that I could ask a member of my family to make a sacrifice like that nor do I think it would necessarily be in the best interests of the parent. At the same time, I completely understand how paying 2K a month out of your own pocket for your MIL's care (nearly 10K total) when she's really not getting much more than room service would be hard to justify.

Caring for someone at home is really challenging in general, and even more so during this pandemic. Most of these people work other jobs, including inside healthcare facilities, so they are potentially bringing the virus with them. And right now there are many home health workers calling out sick.

My friend is caring for his mother at home. She has Alzheimer's and it has been horrible (even absent the pandemic) to coordinate her care and he has had challenges especially recently with people calling out and also with workers who can't deal with someone with dementia and call him to come home from work daily because of various emergencies.

Also, a lot of the home health workers cannot move someone who is larger by themselves; many of them are smaller women who cannot lift someone without help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies. The assisted living facility is barely one. There is no 'next step' in the facility for when MIL needs extensive additional care.

The $2500 additional monthly expenses are the $25 hourly charge for any additional help which she needs a few times a year for several weeks, dental bills, medical copays, supplies for her 2BD apartment within the facility, prescription copays including full pay at certain times of the year, and she likes to keep some food in her fridge for when the delivered meals are not to her liking.

Yes, it's a bit high I agree. Could revisit those expenses again but don't want my MIL to feel that she is being nickeled and dimed.

Mostly I am super annoyed at my BIL. When my FIL died, he sort of ran over all of us and moved my MIL into this most expensive facility. We felt is was too expensive based on the money/income she had. But BIL is a big shot and SWORE he would cover it if/when it came to that. After several years, he decided he no longer wanted to cover it. DH and I committed to the $2K a month to keep the peace and MIL was happy -- but this was all pre-covid.

In reading everyone's response I think it is better if I just leave it alone. I doubt the sister really wants to be the primary caregiver and moving MIL into a nearby apartment while less expensive is not going to be easy to set up and if MIL's facility does open up a bit more -- we will regret having moved her.

My MIL lives in Palm Desert; my SIL in Beverly Hills; and we (DH and I) live in Colorado.

I like most am worried about money. We did tell the BIL that if my DH loses his job we will no longer be able to pay the monthly $2K.

HI OP,

Thanks for the update. Sometimes with senior care it is best to just coast where you are at.

I read all of the other comments, two I think you should consider.

1. One reader said approach for discount due to job loss. I would definitely try this. Facilities don't want empty units and everything is negotiable. They don't want anyone to move out.
2. Does the facility have a one bedroom or efficiency unit? If so are they available? Prices will be a lot cheaper at a 1 bedroom or efficiency unit. People change units at these places all the time for various reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does she need a 2 bedroom. Can you see about downgrading her to a one bedroom?

She probably had the 2 bedroom in case family members wanted to visit or if she needed to have an outside caregiver stay with her around the clock after a surgery or other acute health issue that would require a temporary higher level of care. The 2 bedrooms are more expensive but not crazily more expensive than the smaller units.

Now that visitors are being restricted from the facilities maybe it's time to downsize. Again, the expensive part of this whole thing is the care that your MIL is paying for, not the actual apartment, so you might not save that much money even if you downsize her to a smaller unit.

I would probably look into another, less luxurious, more affordable place that she could hopefully afford on her own income. Unless you are rich, yourself, you have your own retirement to save for. If you are spending your own money on your MIL's care, then you are likely creating a situation where your kids will have to pay for you. Is that what you want? I know that I sure don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies. The assisted living facility is barely one. There is no 'next step' in the facility for when MIL needs extensive additional care.

The $2500 additional monthly expenses are the $25 hourly charge for any additional help which she needs a few times a year for several weeks, dental bills, medical copays, supplies for her 2BD apartment within the facility, prescription copays including full pay at certain times of the year, and she likes to keep some food in her fridge for when the delivered meals are not to her liking.

Yes, it's a bit high I agree. Could revisit those expenses again but don't want my MIL to feel that she is being nickeled and dimed.

Mostly I am super annoyed at my BIL. When my FIL died, he sort of ran over all of us and moved my MIL into this most expensive facility. We felt is was too expensive based on the money/income she had. But BIL is a big shot and SWORE he would cover it if/when it came to that. After several years, he decided he no longer wanted to cover it. DH and I committed to the $2K a month to keep the peace and MIL was happy -- but this was all pre-covid.

In reading everyone's response I think it is better if I just leave it alone. I doubt the sister really wants to be the primary caregiver and moving MIL into a nearby apartment while less expensive is not going to be easy to set up and if MIL's facility does open up a bit more -- we will regret having moved her.

My MIL lives in Palm Desert; my SIL in Beverly Hills; and we (DH and I) live in Colorado.

I like most am worried about money. We did tell the BIL that if my DH loses his job we will no longer be able to pay the monthly $2K.

HI OP,

Thanks for the update. Sometimes with senior care it is best to just coast where you are at.

I read all of the other comments, two I think you should consider.

1. One reader said approach for discount due to job loss. I would definitely try this. Facilities don't want empty units and everything is negotiable. They don't want anyone to move out.
2. Does the facility have a one bedroom or efficiency unit? If so are they available? Prices will be a lot cheaper at a 1 bedroom or efficiency unit. People change units at these places all the time for various reasons.

+1

Your brother sounds like a PITA control freak, which really makes a tough situation worse. Sorry you are going through this, OP. That is a LOT of money. The issue is, if your mom moves, someone will have to take care of her......

FWIW, my friends mom is at Vinson Hall (McLean) which mostly houses military officers' wives - if you think they are catty, you are probably right. Which is funny, considering. They are not very nice to each other, and you are right, they are basically prisoners in one room, right now. Pre COVID, they had a few activities (pool, dinner, etc.) - but really, most people can get out and do that on their own, unless they are almost infirm. Her life, for the most part, would be better with one of her daughters, to whom she is supposedly close - but they don't want to take her in, apparently.

So, you are not alone.

[Anonymous]

Also adding that your big shot of a BIL sounds like an absolute nightmare. What a jerk!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies. The assisted living facility is barely one. There is no 'next step' in the facility for when MIL needs extensive additional care.

The $2500 additional monthly expenses are the $25 hourly charge for any additional help which she needs a few times a year for several weeks, dental bills, medical copays, supplies for her 2BD apartment within the facility, prescription copays including full pay at certain times of the year, and she likes to keep some food in her fridge for when the delivered meals are not to her liking.

Yes, it's a bit high I agree. Could revisit those expenses again but don't want my MIL to feel that she is being nickeled and dimed.

Mostly I am super annoyed at my BIL. When my FIL died, he sort of ran over all of us and moved my MIL into this most expensive facility. We felt is was too expensive based on the money/income she had. But BIL is a big shot and SWORE he would cover it if/when it came to that. After several years, he decided he no longer wanted to cover it. DH and I committed to the $2K a month to keep the peace and MIL was happy -- but this was all pre-covid.

In reading everyone's response I think it is better if I just leave it alone. I doubt the sister really wants to be the primary caregiver and moving MIL into a nearby apartment while less expensive is not going to be easy to set up and if MIL's facility does open up a bit more -- we will regret having moved her.

My MIL lives in Palm Desert; my SIL in Beverly Hills; and we (DH and I) live in Colorado.

I like most am worried about money. We did tell the BIL that if my DH loses his job we will no longer be able to pay the monthly $2K.

HI OP,

Thanks for the update. Sometimes with senior care it is best to just coast where you are at.

I read all of the other comments, two I think you should consider.

1. One reader said approach for discount due to job loss. I would definitely try this. Facilities don't want empty units and everything is negotiable. They don't want anyone to move out.
2. Does the facility have a one bedroom or efficiency unit? If so are they available? Prices will be a lot cheaper at a 1 bedroom or efficiency unit. People change units at these places all the time for various reasons.

+1

Your brother sounds like a PITA control freak, which really makes a tough situation worse. Sorry you are going through this, OP. That is a LOT of money. The issue is, if your mom moves, someone will have to take care of her......

FWIW, my friends mom is at Vinson Hall (McLean) which mostly houses military officers' wives - if you think they are catty, you are probably right. Which is funny, considering. They are not very nice to each other, and you are right, they are basically prisoners in one room, right now. Pre COVID, they had a few activities (pool, dinner, etc.) - but really, most people can get out and do that on their own, unless they are almost infirm. Her life, for the most part, would be better with one of her daughters, to whom she is supposedly close - but they don't want to take her in, apparently.

So, you are not alone.

Lol. You should take her in. Do it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps y’all could find a less high-end facility that would work for her in the same area?

Keep this in mind for the future. I suspect facilities in Palm Desert are cheaper than Beverly Hills. She could easily live another 10 years. Many do in care facilities.
For long term moving her to a facility closer to you or closer to DD in Beverly Hills makes sense over the 2 hour drive that DD currently has.

I saw your update about you think you are going to let things rest for now. Sometimes that is the best when it comes to seniors. If they are doing okay sometimes coast where you are at makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the retirement communities have put these measurements in place to protect their vulnerable residents. They have pretty much all suspended social activities, outings, dining room operations, most entertainment.

If your MIL is paying 9K/month for "assisted living" and the only thing that they assist her with is room service then that cost does seem really high. If she's there because she needs help with medication, dressing, bathing, etc then the 9K makes a bit more sense. If she's there because it gives you all piece of mind that she is checked on 3 times a day, that makes sense.

I think that having a vulnerable, elderly person living in your home right now would be especially difficult. I've heard some horror stories about home healthcare workers not showing up or being impossible to find. That probably isn't something that your SIL factored in when she was speaking of your MIL moving in with her. Is she willing to put her life on hold, never go on vacation and provide heavy duty physical assistance to your MIL for potentially years to come?

Personally, I don't think that I could ask a member of my family to make a sacrifice like that nor do I think it would necessarily be in the best interests of the parent. At the same time, I completely understand how paying 2K a month out of your own pocket for your MIL's care (nearly 10K total) when she's really not getting much more than room service would be hard to justify.

Caring for someone at home is really challenging in general, and even more so during this pandemic. Most of these people work other jobs, including inside healthcare facilities, so they are potentially bringing the virus with them. And right now there are many home health workers calling out sick.

My friend is caring for his mother at home. She has Alzheimer's and it has been horrible (even absent the pandemic) to coordinate her care and he has had challenges especially recently with people calling out and also with workers who can't deal with someone with dementia and call him to come home from work daily because of various emergencies.

Also, a lot of the home health workers cannot move someone who is larger by themselves; many of them are smaller women who cannot lift someone without help.

Probably when he moved her in it seemed doable but as the disease progressed it became an absolute nightmare. She's probably keeping him up all night and he's worried about her getting out of the house. I've even heard of Alzheimer's patients who haven't driven in years suddenly getting a hold of car keys and driving off....usually that does not end well.

Some of the caregivers are elderly themselves and not in the best of health. It's sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds high? did she NOT own a home when she moved there.

My mom lives in one of these communities but that is way more than she pays.

The $4K should cover it.

Where? In Kansas? Round the clock care for my friend’s grandmother was close to $180,000 a year.

NP. Hah! My grandma actually is in one in Kansas and it is 9k. They looked at keeping her at home, but round the clock care would mean 2-3 people x 40k a year and it wasn't going to save them any money.