Annoying Girl Scout Family--what to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been leading my daughter's Girl Scout troop since she was in kindergarten. We've had our ups and downs with various situations in the group but we have come to gel really well as a troop including with almost all of the families. And then there's "Suzie"

Suzie's parents went through a divorce when she was a first grader. It was very chaotic with accusations of assault and alcoholism and God knows what else. During this time they didn't show up to meetings, they didn't respond to anything, and then they'd come out of the woodwork and wonder why nobody told Suzie about the cookie booth or horseback riding, etc. Once the divorce was settled a couple of years later the mom apologized to me for being so flighty saying it was all because of the divorce, etc. She volunteered to come on an overnight trip as a chaperone which I was excited about but she proceeded to get very very drunk and sneak her dog into the hotel.

I should also point out that Suzie is a wreck. She cries at every meeting if she doesn't get her way. She literally cried because I gave her a yellow cup instead of blue (she's 11 years old). She will deliberately hurt herself and then cry hysterically for attention. At least half the meetings I have to call her parents to come get her because she's hurt or sick. They rarely answer so she sits out most of the meeting.

Fast forward a couple more years, the girls are about to go into middle school and are trying to decide if they want to disband the troop. We have decided to spend down all of our savings on a big trip this year and I've sent at least 5 emails about it. One for availability (no reply from this family), one for choice of location and activities (no reply), one confirming date and choice of location (no reply), and one with all of the details of the trip and asking for volunteer chaperones (no reply). I have emailed the family directly TWICE asking them to respond. Nothing.

At this point I have to book a few of the activities before they fill up. I also cannot have this child attend the overnight trip (3 nights) without her mother because I cannot handle the shennanigans. But the mother got so drunk the last time and snuck in the dog. And if I don't book soon I will not be able to get the girls into all of the activities I have planned for them.

So do I go to the council about this? Or should I just give them a deadline (like a week or two from now?) and say if I don't hear from them that Suzie cannot attend? I want to remove her from the troop. I know they say the difficult girls need scouts the most but this kid takes more than half my energy and I don't even think she likes it. HELP.

I would absolutely contact council. It might end up being a non-issue, but if Suzie's mom gets all bent out of shape I think giving them forewarning would be a good idea.

Our troop leader had a somewhat similar issue with a kid with major emotional and behavioral problems. The mom unfortunately seems kind of nuts. When our troop leader told the mom that Larla needed to be accompanied at meetings the mom went ballistic (GS is supposed to be inclusive!) and the troop leader needed council for backup.

Poor Suzie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an aside, who are these women sneaking wine into an event where they are chaperoning children? I am as much as of a social drinker as anyone, but I just cannot imagine doing this, especially after I've been told "no booze". OP, I feel for you!

+1. The moms in our troop joke about it but never do it. I think they would be shocked and disapproving if you did sneak it in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She was not the only one who drank on that trip (I did not and I am a pretty regular drinker...but I just follow that rule very strictly for GS trips). A group of moms went and bought wine from the hotel lobby and drank it. Most of the moms didn't have more than a glass but I think Suzie's mom had been drinking her own supply all evening or is a total lightweight.

We did another trip about a year later and I told all of the moms not to drink (Suzie's mom was not on that trip, nor was Suzie). I know at least one other mom snuck in a bottle of wine. Against the rules but as long as nobody is impaired I'm not going to get tooooo upset about it. I will just remind everyone again...

OP--I'm 13:47 and totally on your team re: Suzie but this post is troubling. Are you NOT having chaperones sign the GS "chaperone guidelines and agreement" document they're supposed to sign before a trip? It says "Adults who have been consuming alcohol cannot be responsible for girls." Not "adults who are impaired" but adults who are consuming, at all, are no longer chaperones. That means if moms have been downing their wine and there's an emergency in the night, you just lost your chaperones and don't have the required number of adult chaperones for the group. Those adult to child ratios really are there for the girls' safety. It's much clearer to use that document and say that no alcohol, even in your own room at night, is allowed. I've had to wake up and get girls out the door of a hotel during a blaring fire alarm, and needed all chaperones on deck immediately to help. Please reconsider the idea that a parent would need to be "impaired" before it's a problem. To GS a chaperone who has had any alcohol can't be a chaperone. And there are real liability issues involved.

DP.. what they sign and what they actually adhere to are two different things.

If they cannot take a signed agreement with a clear list of simple rules seriously, they should not be chaperones.

If they cannot enjoy parent socializing in the evenings without alcohol, they should not be chaperones.

If they think GS rules are silly and don't apply to them, they should not be involved in GS as parents.

True...but what can I do, really? They are the parents I've got for the troop I've got. I've asked them not to drink and it seems like some of them don't want to adhere to that on overnight trips but short of a major confrontation about this I don't know how to force them to stop.

Hold a parents' meeting in advance of the trip (which is often done before events, and can cover everything, not just drinking!). hand out the form and say you're giving them a minute to read it. Then feel free to throw the GS organization under the bus, OP: "Girl Scouts' national organization has emphasized that we have to ensure chaperones don't drink at all, including at night while on an overnight trip. As the form in front of you says, any adult who has consumed alcohol can't be responsible for girls. Lately GS has been cracking down on this and telling troop leaders we should be clear that no alcohol is allowed on trips even 'after hours.' This is a larger GS rule, not just my own, but I agree with it and want the troop to stay in good standing so I'd appreciate it if there's no alcohol at all. Thanks." Then move on.

You...do agree with the rule, don't you, OP? I'm not quite sure. I get that you don't want a confrontation and I don't think one is needed. But they should hear from you, as the person in authority, that the rule is what it is, and you expect them as adults to adhere to it since they're signing off on a form. A form which, by the way, GS could ask you to hand over if anything went really awry on an outing and GS had questions.

You can't police adults every second if they're inside hotel rooms, nor should you, of course! At some point if they're going to break the rule, they're going to break it, but that doesn't mean you should soft-pedal telling them in advance that it does apply to them. I get a sense here of moms who maybe have gotten a bit used to thinking of GS overnight events as chances to catch up--which they are, but with rules attached. I don't mean to sound rigid but there's a reason GS tends to have a lot of forms and rules about safety, ratios and adults. While it can all be a real pain (I know from a dozen years' experience as a leader), it does mean GS has had few issues with adult chaperones overall, as far as I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an aside, who are these women sneaking wine into an event where they are chaperoning children? I am as much as of a social drinker as anyone, but I just cannot imagine doing this, especially after I've been told "no booze". OP, I feel for you!

+1. The moms in our troop joke about it but never do it. I think they would be shocked and disapproving if you did sneak it in.

+2 We joke as well, but we've all been strongly warned that drinking on a GS trip will result in dismissal of our girls.

[Anonymous]

Man, if ever a situation warranted drinking, it’s chaperoning a bunch of Girl Scouts. But I can’t imagine actually doing it. I’ve been a troop leader for 10 years and most of the parents are my good friends and we go out and drink socially, but NO WAY during a scout function. We suck it up and deal.

[Anonymous]

GS is a volunteer organization and there is little the council can or will do.
However we had a troop together for many years. The problem of Susie is beyond your scope as a leader and you expose yourself and other girls to real liability with both her and her irresponsible mother.
It’s time to move away from including Susie and her mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She was not the only one who drank on that trip (I did not and I am a pretty regular drinker...but I just follow that rule very strictly for GS trips). A group of moms went and bought wine from the hotel lobby and drank it. Most of the moms didn't have more than a glass but I think Suzie's mom had been drinking her own supply all evening or is a total lightweight.

We did another trip about a year later and I told all of the moms not to drink (Suzie's mom was not on that trip, nor was Suzie). I know at least one other mom snuck in a bottle of wine. Against the rules but as long as nobody is impaired I'm not going to get tooooo upset about it. I will just remind everyone again...

OP--I'm 13:47 and totally on your team re: Suzie but this post is troubling. Are you NOT having chaperones sign the GS "chaperone guidelines and agreement" document they're supposed to sign before a trip? It says "Adults who have been consuming alcohol cannot be responsible for girls." Not "adults who are impaired" but adults who are consuming, at all, are no longer chaperones. That means if moms have been downing their wine and there's an emergency in the night, you just lost your chaperones and don't have the required number of adult chaperones for the group. Those adult to child ratios really are there for the girls' safety. It's much clearer to use that document and say that no alcohol, even in your own room at night, is allowed. I've had to wake up and get girls out the door of a hotel during a blaring fire alarm, and needed all chaperones on deck immediately to help. Please reconsider the idea that a parent would need to be "impaired" before it's a problem. To GS a chaperone who has had any alcohol can't be a chaperone. And there are real liability issues involved.

DP.. what they sign and what they actually adhere to are two different things.

If they cannot take a signed agreement with a clear list of simple rules seriously, they should not be chaperones.

If they cannot enjoy parent socializing in the evenings without alcohol, they should not be chaperones.

If they think GS rules are silly and don't apply to them, they should not be involved in GS as parents.

True...but what can I do, really? They are the parents I've got for the troop I've got. I've asked them not to drink and it seems like some of them don't want to adhere to that on overnight trips but short of a major confrontation about this I don't know how to force them to stop.

Hold a parents' meeting in advance of the trip (which is often done before events, and can cover everything, not just drinking!). hand out the form and say you're giving them a minute to read it. Then feel free to throw the GS organization under the bus, OP: "Girl Scouts' national organization has emphasized that we have to ensure chaperones don't drink at all, including at night while on an overnight trip. As the form in front of you says, any adult who has consumed alcohol can't be responsible for girls. Lately GS has been cracking down on this and telling troop leaders we should be clear that no alcohol is allowed on trips even 'after hours.' This is a larger GS rule, not just my own, but I agree with it and want the troop to stay in good standing so I'd appreciate it if there's no alcohol at all. Thanks." Then move on.

You...do agree with the rule, don't you, OP? I'm not quite sure. I get that you don't want a confrontation and I don't think one is needed. But they should hear from you, as the person in authority, that the rule is what it is, and you expect them as adults to adhere to it since they're signing off on a form. A form which, by the way, GS could ask you to hand over if anything went really awry on an outing and GS had questions.

You can't police adults every second if they're inside hotel rooms, nor should you, of course! At some point if they're going to break the rule, they're going to break it, but that doesn't mean you should soft-pedal telling them in advance that it does apply to them. I get a sense here of moms who maybe have gotten a bit used to thinking of GS overnight events as chances to catch up--which they are, but with rules attached. I don't mean to sound rigid but there's a reason GS tends to have a lot of forms and rules about safety, ratios and adults. While it can all be a real pain (I know from a dozen years' experience as a leader), it does mean GS has had few issues with adult chaperones overall, as far as I know.

A parent meeting with wording like you suggest is a great idea, I will do that.

I absolutely agree with the rule and want the moms to follow it and if anyone drinks in front of me I will tell them to stop immediately. And since that first overnight when we DID have a little wine with my prior knowledge (every girl had her mom with her on that one, btw) I have reiterated that it is against the rules in my communications about the event (in writing).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an aside, who are these women sneaking wine into an event where they are chaperoning children? I am as much as of a social drinker as anyone, but I just cannot imagine doing this, especially after I've been told "no booze". OP, I feel for you!

+1

Oh boy did I ever wish I had wine when supervising an overnight camping trip for a dozen 10 year old girl scouts. The bugs and hills and girl issues (girls crying in the bathroom, girls trying to have secret meetings in the cabins overnight, girls leaving other girls out of their games, ohhh the whining and crying) were unrelenting. We didn't bring it, but hoo boy did I ever want a whole body analgesic from the inside out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an aside, who are these women sneaking wine into an event where they are chaperoning children? I am as much as of a social drinker as anyone, but I just cannot imagine doing this, especially after I've been told "no booze". OP, I feel for you!

+1

Oh boy did I ever wish I had wine when supervising an overnight camping trip for a dozen 10 year old girl scouts. The bugs and hills and girl issues (girls crying in the bathroom, girls trying to have secret meetings in the cabins overnight, girls leaving other girls out of their games, ohhh the whining and crying) were unrelenting. We didn't bring it, but hoo boy did I ever want a whole body analgesic from the inside out.

I pretty much chug a big glass of wine after each meeting. We are planning a camping trip this summer and everyone in the troop will be invited but it won't be an official GS trip (not using troop funds,etc.) so if parents want to have a beer by the campfire...so be it.

[Anonymous]

Our troop leaders provide RSVP dates for all events, it sounds like you should do that.

[Anonymous]

It might also help if you note that, if you break the GS rules, then there's at least some possibility that the GS insurance provided by Council will not cover the adults involved. And, as a result, if anything happens and they were drinking, there's some chance they could be personally liable.
The insurance thing is one reason we raise why parents need to register and, where necessary, be trained for trips. You don't want to be carrying the liability on your own insurance policy -- let the GS policy be primary.

But, again, I am shocked by the number of posters who think it's a big deal to give up alcohol in this context. I'm from a big Irish catholic family -- teetotalers were are not. But I've been a GS leader for 6 years now, and have never felt like I needed a drink to get through, or come down from, a meeting. A cup of coffee, yes. A hot shower, followed by bingeing of some mindless TV, yes. But not a glass of wine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been leading my daughter's Girl Scout troop since she was in kindergarten. We've had our ups and downs with various situations in the group but we have come to gel really well as a troop including with almost all of the families. And then there's "Suzie"

Suzie's parents went through a divorce when she was a first grader. It was very chaotic with accusations of assault and alcoholism and God knows what else. During this time they didn't show up to meetings, they didn't respond to anything, and then they'd come out of the woodwork and wonder why nobody told Suzie about the cookie booth or horseback riding, etc. Once the divorce was settled a couple of years later the mom apologized to me for being so flighty saying it was all because of the divorce, etc. She volunteered to come on an overnight trip as a chaperone which I was excited about but she proceeded to get very very drunk and sneak her dog into the hotel.

I should also point out that Suzie is a wreck. She cries at every meeting if she doesn't get her way. She literally cried because I gave her a yellow cup instead of blue (she's 11 years old). She will deliberately hurt herself and then cry hysterically for attention. At least half the meetings I have to call her parents to come get her because she's hurt or sick. They rarely answer so she sits out most of the meeting.

Fast forward a couple more years, the girls are about to go into middle school and are trying to decide if they want to disband the troop. We have decided to spend down all of our savings on a big trip this year and I've sent at least 5 emails about it. One for availability (no reply from this family), one for choice of location and activities (no reply), one confirming date and choice of location (no reply), and one with all of the details of the trip and asking for volunteer chaperones (no reply). I have emailed the family directly TWICE asking them to respond. Nothing.

At this point I have to book a few of the activities before they fill up. I also cannot have this child attend the overnight trip (3 nights) without her mother because I cannot handle the shennanigans. But the mother got so drunk the last time and snuck in the dog. And if I don't book soon I will not be able to get the girls into all of the activities I have planned for them.

So do I go to the council about this? Or should I just give them a deadline (like a week or two from now?) and say if I don't hear from them that Suzie cannot attend? I want to remove her from the troop. I know they say the difficult girls need scouts the most but this kid takes more than half my energy and I don't even think she likes it. HELP.

I would absolutely contact council. It might end up being a non-issue, but if Suzie's mom gets all bent out of shape I think giving them forewarning would be a good idea.

Our troop leader had a somewhat similar issue with a kid with major emotional and behavioral problems. The mom unfortunately seems kind of nuts. When our troop leader told the mom that Larla needed to be accompanied at meetings the mom went ballistic (GS is supposed to be inclusive!) and the troop leader needed council for backup.

Poor Suzie.

The problem about not including Suzy and citing THAT ONE TIME is that multiple other moms were also involved THAT ONE TIME and no one is talking about not including them.

[Anonymous]

All scout families are annoying. Sorry, but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All scout families are annoying. Sorry, but true.

Maybe drinking wine would make them less annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All scout families are annoying. Sorry, but true.

Maybe drinking wine would make them less annoying.

Excellent point.