Divorce over chores and WOHM

[Anonymous]

OP, given your follow up, it seems like you could use some help.

The kinds of statements you are making sound a lot like someone with hoarding syndrome. Things like the packed basement with stuff “just in case,” having bought Christmas presents for next year...that’s the kind of anxious thinking that cognitive behavioral therapy with a psychologist could help you address.

I say that as someone who has used CBT to address anxiety and to get support when a family member lost his home to hoarding.

Screen for anxiety and also ADHD, which are both often drivers of hoarding behavior.

A regular cleaning service can help, but they can’t clean if there is clutter all over—you have to address the clutter too.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP above, forgot to add: Since your parent suffered from hoarding syndrome, I don't see a solution to your marital issues without therapy. Parents with severe mental illness, like your mother, do a great job of skewing their children's sense of normal--and since you're showing signs of the same syndrome, and, importantly, you can see that you're showing signs of the same syndrome, act now.

Divorce is a lot more expensive then therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP above, forgot to add: Since your parent suffered from hoarding syndrome, I don't see a solution to your marital issues without therapy. Parents with severe mental illness, like your mother, do a great job of skewing their children's sense of normal--and since you're showing signs of the same syndrome, and, importantly, you can see that you're showing signs of the same syndrome, act now.

Divorce is a lot more expensive then therapy.

This. You're only thinking of the most extreme cases of hoarding. And since its not that bad, you think it's okay. Obviously, no one can see into your home but the level of the clutter, you're describing is excessive and possibly on the mild end of the hoarder scale.

So definitely therapy for you, possibly a regular cleaning service, and your dh should definitely also be doing his part. For example, if having laundry sit on the sofa all week really bothers him, he can be responsible for doing the laundry and putting it away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP above, forgot to add: Since your parent suffered from hoarding syndrome, I don't see a solution to your marital issues without therapy. Parents with severe mental illness, like your mother, do a great job of skewing their children's sense of normal--and since you're showing signs of the same syndrome, and, importantly, you can see that you're showing signs of the same syndrome, act now.

Divorce is a lot more expensive then therapy.

This. You're only thinking of the most extreme cases of hoarding. And since its not that bad, you think it's okay. Obviously, no one can see into your home but the level of the clutter, you're describing is excessive and possibly on the mild end of the hoarder scale.

So definitely therapy for you, possibly a regular cleaning service, and your dh should definitely also be doing his part. For example, if having laundry sit on the sofa all week really bothers him, he can be responsible for doing the laundry and putting it away.

In theory, DH could help. But i would find that level of mess overwhelming and wouldn't be able to address it any of it. I think that's why her DH is not helping.

[Anonymous]

You need to grow up and admit that you have a problem, clean the mess you’ve created and stop hiding from it and ignoring it by leaving the house.

Also, stop being a martyr.

[Anonymous]

OP might benefit from a shopping diet. Sounds like you have enough stuff in your house - do not bring more in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP might benefit from a shopping diet. Sounds like you have enough stuff in your house - do not bring more in.

This. It seems like you are buying things faster than you are able to properly incorporate them into your household. If you take a break from acquiring new things, that will free up time and space to deal with what you have.

[Anonymous]

You need Marie Kondo!

And stop buying stuff. Only keep things you use, give you joy and everything else can be donated or tossed.

My parents weren’t reality tv level hoarders but I grew up in a house where nothing was organized and it drove me nuts. Junk in every drawer, overflowing pantry and just too much stuff in general.

I try to live by the motto that every single item in the house should have a home. If it doesn’t have a home then you don’t need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Use YOUR money from YOUR job to pay cleaners etc. Cheaper than a divorce.

OP does not have HER money from HER job. She has THEIR money from HER's and HIS job. It a community property. If she takes money without agreement then she is stealing.

[Anonymous]

Storing boxes in the basement is hoarding now?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]OP here: Regarding question about what other room(s) are not being used. My response is long winded but the clutter and chaos can be pretty bad.

Can park in only one space out of two in garage. [b]The former nursery room is a staging room for next DIY bathroom renovation (finished one year before).[/b] Living room has mirrors and paintings leaning in corner with[b] boxes of outgrown baby toys [/b](but I cleaned out this corner on Monday but added two glass-door cabinets for books; DH prefers empty corner). [b]Half of guest room used for toy storage and kids’ clothes.[/b] Horizontal surfaces have clutter. The dining room table usually has stacks of paper, work notes, items to return to store, bags of googly eyes and sequins for puppetmaking, etc. [b] I leave the “inert” clutter until the next party or big seasonal cleanup.[/b] The house is clean and decorated when we have big parties, but it’s cluttered during the rest of the time. [b] Toys underfoot in master bedroom and den.[/b] Clean laundry sits on sofa during the week until I fold it. Hallways are clear of stuff and clutter, which allows robot vac to sweep. Bathrooms are clean but lots of bath toys surrounding kids’ tub. It’s definitely the volume and clutter. Basement is a mini Costco with [b]floor-to-ceiling stuff: paper towels, boxes of diapers, extra hiking boots, place settings and serving sets, and toothpaste; boxes from move not yet unpacked; and next year’s Christmas presents (yes, already)[/b].

I thought this was mostly normal messiness (esp. laundry on sofa) for a family with two WOH spouses, little kids, and no cleaning service—but it sounds like many families do better on a daily basis. People in our circle with neater houses have no (young) kids, a SAHM/D, neatnik spouse (WOHM/D) who cleans everything, and/or cleaning service.

Was open about clutter and habits during dating but the means and volume have increased. I am using elfa, shelving and other storage solutions (color-coded bins for holiday decor in the basement) but DH minds the clutter (e.g., two Christmas trees). I love a wall of books from floor to ceiling, but he just sees clutter and visual noise. He likes a mostly empty space...imagine one book or item on each bookshelf.


[/quote]

OP, this is too much. If your kids have so many clothes and toys that they cannot be put away in their rooms and toy boxes, get rid of some of it! Honestly, I am with your DH and I think you are seriously misrepresenting this as a "husband expects me to clean and won't help" issue. You have a problem.

[Anonymous]

OP states that she WOH full time and also is 100% in charge of the cooking (which we know also means grocery/meal prep/dishes/kicthen cleanup)


What does your DH do at home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Use YOUR money from YOUR job to pay cleaners etc. Cheaper than a divorce.

Yes and start throwing his crap out little by little. He won't miss it if you do it over a period of time.

[Anonymous]

I am the neatnick spouse of a boarder-line hoarder who was raised by hoarders. I know what you are facing and trying to do is HARD. Good for you.

I just wanted to give you a little insight into how your husband may experience clutter. To you, clutter is comfortable. To me, clutter is suffocating. It walk into a room where there are things where they shouldn't be makes me feel like I walked into a room without air. Its funny, because I feel that way in my own house, but really I couldn't care less about anyone else's house. I can have dinner over at a friend's house with clutter everywhere and it doesn't bother me in the slightest - but I don't want to live there. In my own house, I cannot feel relaxed and comfortable until things are tidy. Coming home to laundry on the couch would break me - I want to sit on the couch, and not be reminded of chores! Your husband must feel constantly suffocated and stressed if he is anything like me.

What we've done in my house is be very minimal about what comes in. We don't shop in big box stores, and for things like clothes and toys the rule is that if the new thing doesn't fit in existing storage, something must go so the new thing fits. There may be no piles, no stacks, no things with no homes. Since my husband would hoard if left to himself, that means we have quarterly cleaning parties. I pull all his clothes out of the dresser and closet and pile them on the bed, and I hold each thing up one by one and make him decide. I push him if he refuses to give things up, but usually he does. Then we fold together and everything gets put away. I do the same with his books. My son and I both throw things away easily, so we both just get rid of things on a regular basis.

We split housework pretty evenly, but we do it in ways that play to our strengths - I cook and clean. He does all laundry, grocery shopping, kid pickup and dropoff, and finances. We both work full time.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]OP here: Regarding question about what other room(s) are not being used. My response is long winded but the clutter and chaos can be pretty bad.

Can park in only one space out of two in garage. The former nursery room is a staging room for next DIY bathroom renovation (finished one year before). Living room has mirrors and paintings leaning in corner with boxes of outgrown baby toys (but I cleaned out this corner on Monday but added two glass-door cabinets for books; DH prefers empty corner). Half of guest room used for toy storage and kids’ clothes. Horizontal surfaces have clutter. The dining room table usually has stacks of paper, work notes, items to return to store, bags of googly eyes and sequins for puppetmaking, etc. I leave the “inert” clutter until the next party or big seasonal cleanup. The house is clean and decorated when we have big parties, but it’s cluttered during the rest of the time. Toys underfoot in master bedroom and den. Clean laundry sits on sofa during the week until I fold it. Hallways are clear of stuff and clutter, which allows robot vac to sweep. Bathrooms are clean but lots of bath toys surrounding kids’ tub. It’s definitely the volume and clutter. Basement is a mini Costco with floor-to-ceiling stuff: paper towels, boxes of diapers, extra hiking boots, place settings and serving sets, and toothpaste; boxes from move not yet unpacked; and next year’s Christmas presents (yes, already).

I thought this was mostly normal messiness (esp. laundry on sofa) for a family with two WOH spouses, little kids, and no cleaning service—but it sounds like many families do better on a daily basis. People in our circle with neater houses have no (young) kids, a SAHM/D, neatnik spouse (WOHM/D) who cleans everything, and/or cleaning service.

Was open about clutter and habits during dating but the means and volume have increased. I am using elfa, shelving and other storage solutions (color-coded bins for holiday decor in the basement) but DH minds the clutter (e.g., two Christmas trees). I love a wall of books from floor to ceiling, but he just sees clutter and visual noise. He likes a mostly empty space...imagine one book or item on each bookshelf.


[/quote]

Well, we are two WOH spouses with little kids. Cleaner comes every two weeks. In between tidying is on mom. This doesn't sound like a "no cleaner" issue. You have too much stuff and it's not organized. It sounds like you shop and stockpile to fill an emotional need, honestly. I have seen couples where one half is like this and it's usually grounds for divorce for the other one, not vice versa.

In general, I also think having fewer and better curated toys has been shown to help your kids develop their innate creativity and sense of order. We have two kids under 5 and the only "bath toy" we've had for years is a set of stacking cups with holes in it.

Have you ever thought of hiring a personal organizer to help you get control of the space and come up with a system that works for you? It sounds like part of what's happening is that you like to visually SEE all your stuff and he doesn't. This is a useful quiz for talking about organizing personalities and the kinds of systems that can work for each:

http://clutterbug.me/what-clutterbug-are-you-test

I think it would be fine if, say, the guestroom was your little clutter space and possibly even half the basement. But the common areas in the house shouldn't be covered with stuff all the time, that must be kind of frustrating for him.