Divorce over chores and WOHM

[Anonymous]

Paid cleaning help is cheaper than marriage counseling and much cheaper than divorce.

[Anonymous]

Well, you are a WOHM. Outsource the cleaning, childcare and cooking. You have your own money, right? Isn't that why you work? Why is this an issue? If your DH is also working and you are also working then pay for these services.

Should you divorce? I don't know. He sounds like a douche and you are a doormat with a paycheck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get into couples counseling. This is about way more than what you are framing it as:
“Work all day and spend my free time with extended family and sure, I’m a bit of a pack rat but the kids are young and I am busy!”
“She says she is too busy to get the hoarding under control but she makes plenty of time for social visits with her family. Why doesn’t she care about our family and the stress we all feel in a house that is too cluttered to function?”

+1 OP tthis is exactly the problem. Now what's the solution?

Please note, house is not filthy goat trail but is cluttered. No animals, no food lying around etc. I do all the cooking

Is this you responding OP? Are you seriously a "hoarder"? Because that is a mental illness that needs treatment. If your house is merely cluttered, stop using that term as it is confusing the issue.

The treatment is still couples therapy. If you are a genuine hoarder, you should look for a therapist with experience with the disorder. If you are not, probably any couples therapist will do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get into couples counseling. This is about way more than what you are framing it as:
“Work all day and spend my free time with extended family and sure, I’m a bit of a pack rat but the kids are young and I am busy!”
“She says she is too busy to get the hoarding under control but she makes plenty of time for social visits with her family. Why doesn’t she care about our family and the stress we all feel in a house that is too cluttered to function?”

+1 OP tthis is exactly the problem. Now what's the solution?

Please note, house is not filthy goat trail but is cluttered. No animals, no food lying around etc. I do all the cooking

Is this you responding OP? Are you seriously a "hoarder"? Because that is a mental illness that needs treatment. If your house is merely cluttered, stop using that term as it is confusing the issue.

The treatment is still couples therapy. If you are a genuine hoarder, you should look for a therapist with experience with the disorder. If you are not, probably any couples therapist will do.

And both scenarios do require you to prioritize therapy over social visits.

[Anonymous]

Totally agree that couples' therapy could be helpful here. If the therapist feels that one or both of you has an individual issue (eg: hoarding) that could benefit from personal therapy, s/he will likely suggest that.

[Anonymous]

I would for sure divorce a hoarder. We have one in the family and it only gets worse with time, not better. I’m not living like that nor allowing my kids to live that way.

[Anonymous]

If you admit you have “clutter issues” I can only imagine the actual height of the problem. Team DH here.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but I am confused here.

Who is the hoarder in this situation??

[Anonymous]

I think you have no idea how much your hoarding and clutter affect your DH. If my spouse chose to live like a hoarder I would not be able to deal with it. You can’t properly clean a place that has crap everywhere. It would give me a ton of anxiety.

[Anonymous]

I'm assuming Dh doesn't contribute to cleaning either because (1) it's so messy/hoarder-y that DH can't possibly deal with it; or (2) it's so messy/hoarder-y that a housecleaner can't deal with it, and DH has said "we can't hire a housecleaner until you deal with the hoarding". Those are both totally valid. Assuming one of those is the case, i'm team DH.

[Anonymous]

Hoarder level 1 may not mean actual hoarder. We had a room full of stuff we could not use for a purpose. It comes to mind because we’ve just spent the last of 3 weekends + a few furloughed days clearing it out. And we do have a number or boxes in the basement.

Regardless, let me agree with the majority of this thread - get thee both to therapy. Certainly before you make any rash decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:is it worth it to stay married if the expectations for cleaning the house falls on the wife, who works outside the home 100%? Let's just say WOHM has clutter issues (2 kids (one under 2, lots of toys, tons of clothes) also a hoarder level 1 (can't use room for intended purpose, storing boxes in garage and basement), and DH considers himself a neat nick.

DH said I demonstrate that I don't care about his feelings whenever I go out to visit family instead of taking care of the house. DH considers hiring ng help to be amoral and lazy.

An unusable garage is nowhere on the clutter/hoarding scale. What is the other room that cannot be used for intended purpose (if any)?

[Anonymous]

OP here: Regarding question about what other room(s) are not being used. My response is long winded but the clutter and chaos can be pretty bad.

Can park in only one space out of two in garage. The former nursery room is a staging room for next DIY bathroom renovation (finished one year before). Living room has mirrors and paintings leaning in corner with boxes of outgrown baby toys (but I cleaned out this corner on Monday but added two glass-door cabinets for books; DH prefers empty corner). Half of guest room used for toy storage and kids’ clothes. Horizontal surfaces have clutter. The dining room table usually has stacks of paper, work notes, items to return to store, bags of googly eyes and sequins for puppetmaking, etc. I leave the “inert” clutter until the next party or big seasonal cleanup. The house is clean and decorated when we have big parties, but it’s cluttered during the rest of the time. Toys underfoot in master bedroom and den. Clean laundry sits on sofa during the week until I fold it. Hallways are clear of stuff and clutter, which allows robot vac to sweep. Bathrooms are clean but lots of bath toys surrounding kids’ tub. It’s definitely the volume and clutter. Basement is a mini Costco with floor-to-ceiling stuff: paper towels, boxes of diapers, extra hiking boots, place settings and serving sets, and toothpaste; boxes from move not yet unpacked; and next year’s Christmas presents (yes, already).

I thought this was mostly normal messiness (esp. laundry on sofa) for a family with two WOH spouses, little kids, and no cleaning service—but it sounds like many families do better on a daily basis. People in our circle with neater houses have no (young) kids, a SAHM/D, neatnik spouse (WOHM/D) who cleans everything, and/or cleaning service.

Was open about clutter and habits during dating but the means and volume have increased. I am using elfa, shelving and other storage solutions (color-coded bins for holiday decor in the basement) but DH minds the clutter (e.g., two Christmas trees). I love a wall of books from floor to ceiling, but he just sees clutter and visual noise. He likes a mostly empty space...imagine one book or item on each bookshelf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) Even hoarders deserve to get out of the house and have joy

2) Hiw many hours per day do you spend trying to fix the mess? How many hours per weekend? What is reasonable? Set a reasonable goal. Tell your husband, “I will work on the house for X hours on Saturdays. But on Sundays, j get time to relax.”

3) Have you gotten treatment for the hoarding?

4) What does your DH do for the family other than WOG?

5) Can you spend money to work with a hoarding helper to begin to clear the ness?

My mother was a hoarder and lie was hell. I struggle with hoarding tendencies but mostly keep the house presentable, with junk in drawers. But I could not cope without a housekeeper every two weeks. It’s a huge part of our budget but necessary for the wellness of the family. I am not lazy but I am not good at housekeeping and there is only so much I can focus on. Keeping clutter down is as good as I can do. We outsource a deep cleaning twice a month.

You essentially have a disability around housekeeping. It’s not laziness. It’s your brain. Your husband is an asshole to turn it into a character issue. Instead, his poor character is showing. He’s inflexible, stubborn, unhelpful, insensitive, unloving, and controlling.

Your kids deserve a clean house. You need to work in it. You deserve help. And you should probably DtMFA.

+1
+1

OP here: Thanks for your very kind and thoughtful response. It sounds the most realistic to me. I feel like many things you noted ring true.


My mom was a hoarder at the next level. She had long-expired baking mix, reeking bathrooms that you shouldn’t go into, chippedand mismatched plates and cutlery, packed fridge of mystery, non-functional luggage from 1965, etc. She was ashamed and wouldn’t let us have friends over. It was hellish too, so I would go over and chuck her stuff out periodically.

I thought I was actually doing well because nothing was gross in my house. The house can be presentable with notice, so kiddos do have friends over. I captained a LEGO league team for several years and I did clean up twice weekly for the meetings. One solution that I proposed for DH and me was to have more visitors and parties and thereby have a reason to clean. I guess DH wants his discomfiture to be a reason itself. The clutter comprises kids toys, too many clothes, clean laundry, boxes presents, warehouse-store bulk supplies, a basement of boxed or binned items by category (shoes, kitchen, decor, painting canvases), etc., but the toys are underfoot and you can’t always sit on the sofa. I’m beginning to understand it’s stressful too.

Yes, many of the DH qualities you cite is definitely true regarding this issue. DH (not me) wants the divorce if I can’t clean up. I wasn’t clear in my first post. All solutions point to my moving forward by cleaning up the house. Others noted that DH might be stressed over the hoarder mess. I don’t have time or money for therapy and also prefer to stay together as a family. I think I can prioritize the cleaning service—at least I can when employment returns to normal. Do you have any contacts, or would you share how you setup your regime?

General thank you also to everyone who shared a helpful perspective. You’ve given me something to think about that the mess affects DH differently from me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) Even hoarders deserve to get out of the house and have joy

2) Hiw many hours per day do you spend trying to fix the mess? How many hours per weekend? What is reasonable? Set a reasonable goal. Tell your husband, “I will work on the house for X hours on Saturdays. But on Sundays, j get time to relax.”

3) Have you gotten treatment for the hoarding?

4) What does your DH do for the family other than WOG?

5) Can you spend money to work with a hoarding helper to begin to clear the ness?

My mother was a hoarder and lie was hell. I struggle with hoarding tendencies but mostly keep the house presentable, with junk in drawers. But I could not cope without a housekeeper every two weeks. It’s a huge part of our budget but necessary for the wellness of the family. I am not lazy but I am not good at housekeeping and there is only so much I can focus on. Keeping clutter down is as good as I can do. We outsource a deep cleaning twice a month.

You essentially have a disability around housekeeping. It’s not laziness. It’s your brain. Your husband is an asshole to turn it into a character issue. Instead, his poor character is showing. He’s inflexible, stubborn, unhelpful, insensitive, unloving, and controlling.

Your kids deserve a clean house. You need to work in it. You deserve help. And you should probably DtMFA.

+1
+1

OP here: Thanks for your very kind and thoughtful response. It sounds the most realistic to me. I feel like many things you noted ring true.


My mom was a hoarder at the next level. She had long-expired baking mix, reeking bathrooms that you shouldn’t go into, chippedand mismatched plates and cutlery, packed fridge of mystery, non-functional luggage from 1965, etc. She was ashamed and wouldn’t let us have friends over. It was hellish too, so I would go over and chuck her stuff out periodically.

I thought I was actually doing well because nothing was gross in my house. The house can be presentable with notice, so kiddos do have friends over. I captained a LEGO league team for several years and I did clean up twice weekly for the meetings. One solution that I proposed for DH and me was to have more visitors and parties and thereby have a reason to clean. I guess DH wants his discomfiture to be a reason itself. The clutter comprises kids toys, too many clothes, clean laundry, boxes presents, warehouse-store bulk supplies, a basement of boxed or binned items by category (shoes, kitchen, decor, painting canvases), etc., but the toys are underfoot and you can’t always sit on the sofa. I’m beginning to understand it’s stressful too.

Yes, many of the DH qualities you cite is definitely true regarding this issue. DH (not me) wants the divorce if I can’t clean up. I wasn’t clear in my first post. All solutions point to my moving forward by cleaning up the house. Others noted that DH might be stressed over the hoarder mess. I don’t have time or money for therapy and also prefer to stay together as a family. I think I can prioritize the cleaning service—at least I can when employment returns to normal. Do you have any contacts, or would you share how you setup your regime?

General thank you also to everyone who shared a helpful perspective. You’ve given me something to think about that the mess affects DH differently from me.

What part of the house does your DH clean? If it is all on you, and he is wanting a minimalist house without the work of it- then he is delusional.

I agree that couple therapy is due and he needs to step up with 50% of the cleaning OR get over his reluctance to outside paid help. You also need to hire an organizer to help you get rid of all the old kids stuff and organize the rest.