CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All are good points, but I think NCSL is unlikely to regain its former status. I think that EDP is a more likely destination for top programs than NCSL. EDP is an open league, with multiple divisions, promotion/relegation, flexible scheduling and a pathway to national level. NCSL does some of the same things. Just my two cents.

I really like the new EDP structure, but I don't see how it could take the place of NCSL or similar. It seems (https://www.usyouthsoccer.org/us-youth-soccer-announces-new-leagues-structure---the-us-youth-soccer-national-leagues/) that the league takes the place of the old Region 1, and funnels teams to the National league, but it doesn't have a local component.

It is very difficult to make it to the National league so only an handful of local teams would make it. In terms of top divisions (below the National League), they are geographically based so that cuts down on travel. You won't see a Virginia team travelling to New England. Lower divisions are also geographically based, you will see a mix of teams from Maryland and Virginia in those divisions. In terms of travel, it is not that different from NCSL, except at the very top level.

[Anonymous]

There’s so many players, that NCSL definitely has an important place when it comes to development. I think it could slot right behind EDP, but really CCL and NPL are the leagues that seem superfluous. There should be a pyramid and the possibility for a team to start at ODSL and make its way up to EDP at least. If only we could also do that with MLS, USL, PDL, and whatever else we might be better off in the long term as well.

[Anonymous]

As for the “elite” closed leagues making it easier for coaches with multiple teams, we need more good coaches. With all the money that’s made you would think they offer incentives for people to start coaching and become certified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Let's say at the outset -- I have no doubt CCL started with good intentions. And Virginia NPL also served some purpose.

But now we have DA. And ECNL. A lot of the CCL clubs actually have teams in one or the other. (It's worse in Georgia -- on their message board, I referred to the new SCCL as "Southern Clubs' C-teams League," and I'm not really kidding.)

And now we have EDP, which offers one fluid system that includes club vs. club brackets as well as opportunities for teams that may be better than the rest of their clubs. The top tier replaces the old Region I leagues.

So with all of these leagues available, what's the purpose of CCL and Virginia NPL? Does the club vs. club concept make any sense now that you're talking about B teams? Why wall yourself off from other competition? And why not let your teams find the right level in a pro/rel system, either in EDP or NCSL or ODSL?

Good questions. My take:

No, the club v club concept does not make any sense now that you're talking about B teams.

The only purpose of CCL and NPL now is to wall themselves off from other competition. That way they can sell themselves as, if not "elite", at least better than [fill in the blank with some other, supposedly less prestigious league].



The reason they don't want their teams to simply find their right level in a pro/rel system is that then they will be found out. They can't claim to be in an "elite" league if they can't earn it on the field.

Put another way, it's about parent ego more than anything. It makes some feel better to say their kid's team plays in CCL or NPL than in NCSL. Clubs know this and capitalize on it to draw/retain players.

NP. I completely agree! We are in a D2 NCSL team and regularly beat CCL and NPL teams in tournaments and scrimmages. The opposing parents always look so confused leaving the field... Yes, DA and EDP are all the 'elite' needed. Then NCSL for the rest of us. Down to decent rec leagues like SFL and MSI.

I actually agree. We are a strong girls 2nd team in CCL/CCLII - and it is frustrating to play other team's 2nd team when we could beat their top team. One-sided blowouts are not fun when you are restricted to scoring after 5 passes and with your weak foot, if allowed to score more goals at all. It would be nice to play in NCSL where you have to work for it. But I do understand from the coach's POV about not having scheduling conflicts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

good point regarding the club vs club play. Although it's a closed system, in theory the larger clubs should be able to develop/attract better players and coaches along with the better organization of a league it could still be an attractive option for players/families. I'm all for promotion/relegation but I just don't think NCSL is the way to go as the overall level just isn't there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

[Anonymous]

To the point above that CCL clubs send a lot of kids to DA, I don't think that has anything to do with the league. You're pretty much talking about the big clubs in CCL, and they were always the same clubs that had kids in the top divisions of NCSL, Region 1, and National League before CCL too. The powerhouse clubs always have an advantage because they draw from a wider territory. Not to say that there aren't small clubs producing great players too. The beauty of a well-functioning NCSL-type league is that good teams from small clubs can continue to be challenged and rise up the ranks in the pro-rel system. Those teams can't get in CCL and the good teams in CCL are stuck playing a lot of weaker teams. The CCL weaker teams would also have a more enjoyable time competing in an appropriate division in NCSL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

good point regarding the club vs club play. Although it's a closed system, in theory the larger clubs should be able to develop/attract better players and coaches along with the better organization of a league it could still be an attractive option for players/families. I'm all for promotion/relegation but I just don't think NCSL is the way to go as the overall level just isn't there.

The overall level would be there if you didn't have leagues like CCL diluting the talent pool. It was once the destination for all the top kids at the younger age groups, and would be again if you got rid of CCL and NPL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

I like the CCL concept/organization and have seen many talented teams out there and others not so good. I also believe in promotion/relegation. The problem is that it's unlikely that these different leagues such as CCL/EDP/VPL/NCSL/ODSL will ever sit down to determine what is the best for the game in our area outside of DA so we have to make which ever choice is best for DC or even ourselves. In the rest of the world there is a federation that establishes how the game should be run from the professional to youth level. In this country there is no such thing and even the state associations do nothing in their area do enforce the way the youth game should be set-up. They allow all different types of leagues to be created and separate the talent instead of bringing it together. In my opinion for VA there should be multiple regions with as many divisions as necessary within each region to accommodate all teams. Above those regional there would be a state league with x amount of divisions (let's say 3). The bottom x teams in Division 3 of state league drop down to D1 of regional league and the top x teams from regional leagues move up to D3. All with the possibility of reaching the State League D1. The winner of the State League D1 would be the State champion and compete against other states in the Championship Series. Yes it would remove the need for the current State Cup but at least all teams would compete for the opportunity to move or down regardless of what club they belong to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

But those clubs left NCSL. Why? Because NCSL was not meeting their expectations or unwilling to listen to ways to improve and meet the need of those club's top teams.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

good point regarding the club vs club play. Although it's a closed system, in theory the larger clubs should be able to develop/attract better players and coaches along with the better organization of a league it could still be an attractive option for players/families. I'm all for promotion/relegation but I just don't think NCSL is the way to go as the overall level just isn't there.

The overall level would be there if you didn't have leagues like CCL diluting the talent pool. It was once the destination for all the top kids at the younger age groups, and would be again if you got rid of CCL and NPL.

[Anonymous]

I would love for NCSL to encompass all teams. However, right now it seems some of the NCSL teams borrow players by dual rostering from the NPL/CCL groups to help them win in NCSL or in tournaments. Not sure that would be allowed if there was only one league.