CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case

[Anonymous]

Concrete terms? It's pretty much subjective and there are too many variables.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Concrete terms? It's pretty much subjective and there are too many variables.

How many DA (or DA/ECNL in the case of women) players make D1 schools vs non-DA players? Someone did an analysis of the VA data for last year and on the women's side it was something like 80/20 or greater in favor of DA/ECNL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I'm curious about the bolded. It's certainly the case that most people who love soccer think the MLS style of play is inferior to the top leagues overseas. But are you saying that if your kid was good enough to have a realistic shot at the pro, and no dual citizenship, you wouldn't let him play for an MLS academy? Even if its cheaper than the local premier option that plays in EDP? That seems crazy, given that there are a lot of youth national team kids being recruited by teams in Europe right now who came up through the MSL DA academy system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

You will have more elite players in some cases but even in the DC area, you have quality players on quality non-ECNL/DA teams going to DI schools and beyond. FC Bordeaux 99, Herndon 99, Loudoun 99, Arlington 99, OPSA 99, etc. Those teams played in the top brackets at Jefferson Cup, Bethesda, Disney, etc., and are sending their best to DI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I'm curious about the bolded. It's certainly the case that most people who love soccer think the MLS style of play is inferior to the top leagues overseas. But are you saying that if your kid was good enough to have a realistic shot at the pro, and no dual citizenship, you wouldn't let him play for an MLS academy? Even if its cheaper than the local premier option that plays in EDP? That seems crazy, given that there are a lot of youth national team kids being recruited by teams in Europe right now who came up through the MSL DA academy system.

The local "MLS Academy" is not cheaper then the other local options. Other MLS Academies are cheaper and often free but not with the might DC United.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

You will have more elite players in some cases but even in the DC area, you have quality players on quality non-ECNL/DA teams going to DI schools and beyond. FC Bordeaux 99, Herndon 99, Loudoun 99, Arlington 99, OPSA 99, etc. Those teams played in the top brackets at Jefferson Cup, Bethesda, Disney, etc., and are sending their best to DI

That's why the _on average_ statement is there. Of course, for many reasons very good players decide to forego DA. That doesn't mean they are on average at parity with or better than DA players. There are, very commonly, exceptions to every rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

You will have more elite players in some cases but even in the DC area, you have quality players on quality non-ECNL/DA teams going to DI schools and beyond. FC Bordeaux 99, Herndon 99, Loudoun 99, Arlington 99, OPSA 99, etc. Those teams played in the top brackets at Jefferson Cup, Bethesda, Disney, etc., and are sending their best to DI

Hopefully it should be obvious to all that the majority of players recruited to college don't come from DA (or DA+ECNL for the girls).

The latest estimates I found after a quick search shows that there are 24,986 men and 27,638 women competing in soccer at the D1 level (http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-college-athletics). There are around 80 something DA programs for boys that go all the way through U19, and they have a max roster of 24 on average, so say around 1,920 DA graduates per year x 4 (for each year of college) gets you to less than 8,000. And a lot of DA kids don't end up playing D1 or playing in college at all. For NCAA men, a fair number of the D1 slots will be taken up by international players, but there are still lots of roster spots left. Add to that that our area is very strong for soccer overall, so I'm sure that the DMV is more heavily represented in college than a lot of other regions.

I haven't run the numbers for women, but it's a similar story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

You will have more elite players in some cases but even in the DC area, you have quality players on quality non-ECNL/DA teams going to DI schools and beyond. FC Bordeaux 99, Herndon 99, Loudoun 99, Arlington 99, OPSA 99, etc. Those teams played in the top brackets at Jefferson Cup, Bethesda, Disney, etc., and are sending their best to DI

Hopefully it should be obvious to all that the majority of players recruited to college don't come from DA (or DA+ECNL for the girls).

The latest estimates I found after a quick search shows that there are 24,986 men and 27,638 women competing in soccer at the D1 level (http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-college-athletics). There are around 80 something DA programs for boys that go all the way through U19, and they have a max roster of 24 on average, so say around 1,920 DA graduates per year x 4 (for each year of college) gets you to less than 8,000. And a lot of DA kids don't end up playing D1 or playing in college at all. For NCAA men, a fair number of the D1 slots will be taken up by international players, but there are still lots of roster spots left. Add to that that our area is very strong for soccer overall, so I'm sure that the DMV is more heavily represented in college than a lot of other regions.

I haven't run the numbers for women, but it's a similar story.

We are talking the top D1 programs and scholarships. Not every bench player on every D1 or below team. Please run your numbers to include that, because otherwise your data will have very little meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

You will have more elite players in some cases but even in the DC area, you have quality players on quality non-ECNL/DA teams going to DI schools and beyond. FC Bordeaux 99, Herndon 99, Loudoun 99, Arlington 99, OPSA 99, etc. Those teams played in the top brackets at Jefferson Cup, Bethesda, Disney, etc., and are sending their best to DI

Hopefully it should be obvious to all that the majority of players recruited to college don't come from DA (or DA+ECNL for the girls).

The latest estimates I found after a quick search shows that there are 24,986 men and 27,638 women competing in soccer at the D1 level (http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-college-athletics). There are around 80 something DA programs for boys that go all the way through U19, and they have a max roster of 24 on average, so say around 1,920 DA graduates per year x 4 (for each year of college) gets you to less than 8,000. And a lot of DA kids don't end up playing D1 or playing in college at all. For NCAA men, a fair number of the D1 slots will be taken up by international players, but there are still lots of roster spots left. Add to that that our area is very strong for soccer overall, so I'm sure that the DMV is more heavily represented in college than a lot of other regions.

I haven't run the numbers for women, but it's a similar story.

Your logic is wrong. There are not 27,638 slots to be filled by 8000 combined DA players.

There are about 2500 graduating D1 seniors slots to be filled along with slots for players who simply quit the college program. There are about 5000 graduating HS seniors who play both in DA and ECNL fighting for 2500-4000 total openings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I'm curious about the bolded. It's certainly the case that most people who love soccer think the MLS style of play is inferior to the top leagues overseas. But are you saying that if your kid was good enough to have a realistic shot at the pro, and no dual citizenship, you wouldn't let him play for an MLS academy? Even if its cheaper than the local premier option that plays in EDP? That seems crazy, given that there are a lot of youth national team kids being recruited by teams in Europe right now who came up through the MSL DA academy system.

The local "MLS Academy" is not cheaper then the other local options. Other MLS Academies are cheaper and often free but not with the might DC United.

Other MLS DA programs are cheaper, but that's not the relevant comparison unless you plan to move or send your kid away. I'd be very surprised if there are many (or even any) top non-DA high school aged teams in our area that are cheaper than DC United. DC United's Academy website ( https://www.dcunited.com/academy/faq) indicates that the oldest two age groups for DC United play $1,500 per year, which covers "coaches and athletic trainer fees, training and travel gear, transportation, meals and lodging costs for league, regional and national events." They also note that full and partial scholarships are available on an as need basis for any player who applies and provides supporting documents."

This info might be slightly out of date because it refers to U18 as the top age group (it's now U19), but it's consistent with what we've heard from friends who are there now. And those fees include GA Cup, which offers scouting by both college and top professional clubs overseas. Bethesda's DA fees are also reasonable too ($1,200 per year for the older age groups, including uniforms), but they don't cover transportation and lodging fees. You will pay signficantly less to do either program than you will a non-DA program that travels for top showcase tournaments or plays in ECNL, national league, or even many local leagues, and all the DA programs offer good financial aid.

[Anonymous]

The same applies to the men's side with the added complication of international players and a less robust ECNL or National league program as exits on the girls side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

You will have more elite players in some cases but even in the DC area, you have quality players on quality non-ECNL/DA teams going to DI schools and beyond. FC Bordeaux 99, Herndon 99, Loudoun 99, Arlington 99, OPSA 99, etc. Those teams played in the top brackets at Jefferson Cup, Bethesda, Disney, etc., and are sending their best to DI

Hopefully it should be obvious to all that the majority of players recruited to college don't come from DA (or DA+ECNL for the girls).

The latest estimates I found after a quick search shows that there are 24,986 men and 27,638 women competing in soccer at the D1 level (http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-college-athletics). There are around 80 something DA programs for boys that go all the way through U19, and they have a max roster of 24 on average, so say around 1,920 DA graduates per year x 4 (for each year of college) gets you to less than 8,000. And a lot of DA kids don't end up playing D1 or playing in college at all. For NCAA men, a fair number of the D1 slots will be taken up by international players, but there are still lots of roster spots left. Add to that that our area is very strong for soccer overall, so I'm sure that the DMV is more heavily represented in college than a lot of other regions.

I haven't run the numbers for women, but it's a similar story.

Your logic is wrong. There are not 27,638 slots to be filled by 8000 combined DA players.

There are about 2500 graduating D1 seniors slots to be filled along with slots for players who simply quit the college program. There are about 5000 graduating HS seniors who play both in DA and ECNL fighting for 2500-4000 total openings.

Very good point. It seems that some have some stake in trying to prove that playing on an EDP team is just as good as DA (or DA/ECNL) for women with respect to being recruited for D1 play, or even playing D1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

You will have more elite players in some cases but even in the DC area, you have quality players on quality non-ECNL/DA teams going to DI schools and beyond. FC Bordeaux 99, Herndon 99, Loudoun 99, Arlington 99, OPSA 99, etc. Those teams played in the top brackets at Jefferson Cup, Bethesda, Disney, etc., and are sending their best to DI

Hopefully it should be obvious to all that the majority of players recruited to college don't come from DA (or DA+ECNL for the girls).

The latest estimates I found after a quick search shows that there are 24,986 men and 27,638 women competing in soccer at the D1 level (http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-college-athletics). There are around 80 something DA programs for boys that go all the way through U19, and they have a max roster of 24 on average, so say around 1,920 DA graduates per year x 4 (for each year of college) gets you to less than 8,000. And a lot of DA kids don't end up playing D1 or playing in college at all. For NCAA men, a fair number of the D1 slots will be taken up by international players, but there are still lots of roster spots left. Add to that that our area is very strong for soccer overall, so I'm sure that the DMV is more heavily represented in college than a lot of other regions.

I haven't run the numbers for women, but it's a similar story.

We are talking the top D1 programs and scholarships. Not every bench player on every D1 or below team. Please run your numbers to include that, because otherwise your data will have very little meaning.

What's a "top D1 program" in your view? How would I or any other member of the public know what scholarship amount particular players received?

[Anonymous]

Or you are trying to justify your buying your kid's way onto a DI squad.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:So my cynicism seems to be well-founded.

Do you have the same cynicism about MLS, another closed system with no competition? It all starts at the top and then trickles down to youth levels, doesn't it?

Not really. Totally different forces in play.

So what are these different forces? USSF/SUM/MLS? The rest of the world has open system in pretty much every professional league with real pressure on the clubs to perform well. It is the norm in virtually every country in the world. It seem to me that if a closed system is bad for youth soccer, it can't be healthy for professional soccer.

Can you please start a different thread for this conversation? I don't want to see a good discussion about the local leagues get side-tracked. Thanks.

Back on topic, is there anyone on here who sees a good reason for the continuation of CCL and VA NPL? Who would be hurt if they were phased out?

This was a question to RSD, who originated this thread. I am just trying to understand a media member's prospective. You can relax and continue discussing whatever makes you happy.

Feel free to continue that discussion here: https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Now back to catching up on seven pages of this thread, with considerable trepidation. CCL Guy's triumphant return?

It has actually been a pretty good discussion on balance, though we've gotten off track at the end.