CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

It really isn't a matter of whether the rest of the world agrees or not. We have promotion/relegation leagues already in the area and they are lousy leagues overall. If promotion/relegation worked in a open market, as we have, then NCSL would be the top league in the region. It isn't.

Everyone shouts out promotion/relegation as some form of silver bullet and it MIGHT be, down the road, but it requires major oversight and the last thing people like is a large organization dictating how soccer should be run. This is why we have the current turf war of DA vs ECNL right now. There are to many pockets of people who want their own autonomy.

So in the few rare instances where promotion/relegation leagues work in the area it simply becomes a bull rush to get on a particular team with a particular coach. Coaches play to win, not to develop because without winning the team doesn't move up, teams don't get in the top brackets at the showcases and then folks abandon ship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

yep this is very accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

yep this is very accurate.

It is accurate to say that not all the top players choose DA. Indeed, that is why conversations like these are important. What system would best serve players who are serious but are not playing DA for whatever reason. But how is it accurate to say that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs? What does that even mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

yep this is very accurate.

It is accurate to say that not all the top players choose DA. Indeed, that is why conversations like these are important. What system would best serve players who are serious but are not playing DA for whatever reason. But how is it accurate to say that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs? What does that even mean?

If they do not want to play in DA or ECNL exactly what special niche do such players need that is currently lacking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

Boy, that earlier comment must have hit your ego where it hurts. You can pat yourself on the back about players leaving to play in DA programs (the same happens to players from non-CCL clubs), but this does not explain the problem of lopsided scores in CCL. It is interesting that all your examples come from leagues, which are based on closed systems and frankly even Patriots do not beat Browns by 12 or 16 TDs. Compare it to La Liga, where Barcelona and Atletico recently had hard fought 1-0 victories over the two newly promoted teams. Of course, these clubs/teams are not on the same level in terms of talent (there are stronger and weaker teams) but the games are competitive. Even weaker teams do not get blown out by double digit scores every week.

[Anonymous]

^^The issue is not kids who have no desire to play high level soccer; it's kids who have the talent and ambition, but not the money or transportation to join an elite league at a young age. Those kids were much better served under the old system, where they could stay on a local team that got good competition in NCSL D1 or D2 without traveling far for games until they were HS age. Same applies for families that for whatever reason don't want to join DA until the older age groups. Why can't they have sensible affordable options prior to that with all the good teams we have here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

Boy, that earlier comment must have hit your ego where it hurts. You can pat yourself on the back about players leaving to play in DA programs (the same happens to players from non-CCL clubs), but this does not explain the problem of lopsided scores in CCL. It is interesting that all your examples come from leagues, which are based on closed systems and frankly even Patriots do not beat Browns by 12 or 16 TDs. Compare it to La Liga, where Barcelona and Atletico recently had hard fought 1-0 victories over the two newly promoted teams. Of course, these clubs/teams are not on the same level in terms of talent (there are stronger and weaker teams) but the games are competitive. Even weaker teams do not get blown out by double digit scores every week.

No professional sports league in the world makes a greater attempt at league wide parity more than the NFL. And even with rules in place to promote competitive balance the league still gets the winless Cleveland Browns.

In La Liga last year Barcelona finished first with a W28-L1-9 record scoring 99 goals and giving up 29

The last place team was Malaga with a record 5-25-5 record 24GF 61GA

The year before Granada finished last with 4-26-8 record with 30GF 80GA

How did promotion/relegation or an open league eliminate those blowouts or poor records. Yes, it seems “open” until you are a scrappy poor little team going up against monsters like Barcelona, Chelsea or Man City.

And those are professional and you somehow think you can avoid blowouts better with 9 and 10 year old kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

Boy, that earlier comment must have hit your ego where it hurts. You can pat yourself on the back about players leaving to play in DA programs (the same happens to players from non-CCL clubs), but this does not explain the problem of lopsided scores in CCL. It is interesting that all your examples come from leagues, which are based on closed systems and frankly even Patriots do not beat Browns by 12 or 16 TDs. Compare it to La Liga, where Barcelona and Atletico recently had hard fought 1-0 victories over the two newly promoted teams. Of course, these clubs/teams are not on the same level in terms of talent (there are stronger and weaker teams) but the games are competitive. Even weaker teams do not get blown out by double digit scores every week.

No professional sports league in the world makes a greater attempt at league wide parity more than the NFL. And even with rules in place to promote competitive balance the league still gets the winless Cleveland Browns.

In La Liga last year Barcelona finished first with a W28-L1-9 record scoring 99 goals and giving up 29

The last place team was Malaga with a record 5-25-5 record 24GF 61GA

The year before Granada finished last with 4-26-8 record with 30GF 80GA

How did promotion/relegation or an open league eliminate those blowouts or poor records. Yes, it seems “open” until you are a scrappy poor little team going up against monsters like Barcelona, Chelsea or Man City.

And those are professional and you somehow think you can avoid blowouts better with 9 and 10 year old kids?

You’re the only one who’s talking about numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

Boy, that earlier comment must have hit your ego where it hurts. You can pat yourself on the back about players leaving to play in DA programs (the same happens to players from non-CCL clubs), but this does not explain the problem of lopsided scores in CCL. It is interesting that all your examples come from leagues, which are based on closed systems and frankly even Patriots do not beat Browns by 12 or 16 TDs. Compare it to La Liga, where Barcelona and Atletico recently had hard fought 1-0 victories over the two newly promoted teams. Of course, these clubs/teams are not on the same level in terms of talent (there are stronger and weaker teams) but the games are competitive. Even weaker teams do not get blown out by double digit scores every week.

Your fascination closed vs open leagues. We were/are a CCL family, you need to give some examples of where you saw these lop sided scores, because I don't see it. My kid's team only beat one club badly, but most were +/- 2 pts. They don't publish the scores, just wins/losses so I'm calling bullshit on your claims. Are you a butt hurt NCSL coach?

[Anonymous]

There’s parity with pro/rel. if you get throttled, down you go. If you do very well, you move up. The only reasons why someone would argue against it are a)complacency b)fear of losing status

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

Boy, that earlier comment must have hit your ego where it hurts. You can pat yourself on the back about players leaving to play in DA programs (the same happens to players from non-CCL clubs), but this does not explain the problem of lopsided scores in CCL. It is interesting that all your examples come from leagues, which are based on closed systems and frankly even Patriots do not beat Browns by 12 or 16 TDs. Compare it to La Liga, where Barcelona and Atletico recently had hard fought 1-0 victories over the two newly promoted teams. Of course, these clubs/teams are not on the same level in terms of talent (there are stronger and weaker teams) but the games are competitive. Even weaker teams do not get blown out by double digit scores every week.

No professional sports league in the world makes a greater attempt at league wide parity more than the NFL. And even with rules in place to promote competitive balance the league still gets the winless Cleveland Browns.

In La Liga last year Barcelona finished first with a W28-L1-9 record scoring 99 goals and giving up 29

The last place team was Malaga with a record 5-25-5 record 24GF 61GA

The year before Granada finished last with 4-26-8 record with 30GF 80GA

How did promotion/relegation or an open league eliminate those blowouts or poor records. Yes, it seems “open” until you are a scrappy poor little team going up against monsters like Barcelona, Chelsea or Man City.

And those are professional and you somehow think you can avoid blowouts better with 9 and 10 year old kids?

You’re the only one who’s talking about numbers.

See bolded

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"6) NPL and CCL both have their faults but NPL is really struggling. Virginia Rush left this past year, NVSC the year before. PWSI, VSA, and both Richmond teams are looking to join CCL. The reality of the situation is that DA and ECNL have made both these leagues 3rd tier. Both can't continue to exist on the same level and NPL is rapidly falling behind. "

Someone posted this on another thread. Any truth to this? I would think it would be the end of VPL if true.

With DA/ECNL being the elite, the biggest/established clubs in the region would have their top teams in CCL and some (those w DA/ECNL) their second. Besides EDP D1 having some really good teams because their clubs are not big enough or not interested in being in a regional league I think CCL could become the 2nd tier after DA/ECNL. Not sure EDP is ready to be that besides for a few teams. NCSL is too disorganized, stuck in their old ways, to lure any of these club's top teams back into their league. As of last year they still required scores to be emailed to a volunteer which is pretty archaic at this point. Eventually the D1 teams in NCSL will leave for EDP which will lower the level of the league even more.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. CCL isn't really a regional league in its current form, despite the way they bill themselves. It's a local league that covers a different territory than NCSL, and doesn't seem to be particularly effective in developing kids or popular among parents. You really need a pro-rel league like NCSL or a new improved version of NCSL to give decent opportunities to players in our area, and that league would feed players to EDP. I'm sure that clubs' top teams would be perfectly happy to play there if CCL goes away and the clubs that are in CCL now stop promoting it as if it's some great option.

In terms of NCSL being poorly run, it has been a while since my kids play there, but I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with its lack of flexibility in the old days. I recently read that the league hired a new executive director (https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/ncsl-hires-ryan-rich-as-leagues-first-ever-executive-director/) who seems to have a good resume. Maybe he could work on improving the problems that have caused dissatisfaction.

Ranting Soccer Dad, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you've met the new NCSL executive director. I would love to hear what he thinks about the needlessly fragmented state of our local landscape, and whether he has any ideas for improving the situation.

What if CCL with the addition of some of the other clubs from VPL created a promotion relegation D1/D2? That would create a new level of competition within the league. As for not developing players I see many players going into DA teams that come from CCL clubs. Not exclusively from CCL but many do and their teams do well in State Cup (I understand no DA) which includes all teams outside of the "elite".

Even VPL and CCL merged, it still does not solve the problem of the closed system. Even promotion and relegation in a closed system does not fully solve the problem of stagnation within a closed system. Additionally, if a club has a team in one age group that gets relegated and another team in another age group stays in the top division, the club will have different age groups play against different clubs. So the whole concept of club vs club games goes out of the window.

Promotion/relegation is only good for team and coaches not players.

The rest of the world disagrees.

+1, I don't think that players benefit from lopsided scores and mismatched competition that the closed system offers. There are plenty of weak team is both CCL and VPL that get crushed by big scores. These leagues are not elite, they are elitist.

You know nothing about sports. There is no such thing as a league of any sport where everyone team is on the same level. Patriots vs Browns, Golden State vs Orlando, list goes on and on. If you new anything, you would know that the area's top DA teams are built on a lot of CCL programs and not all the top players choose DA.

yep this is very accurate.

No, it's actually not accurate at all. The area's top DA teams are Bethesda & DCU. Neither contains very many former CCL players.

To say that not all the top players choose DA is technically accurate, but it is a fact that by U14 and up, the vast majority of the areas top players have gravitated to the DAs. There are a few players out there who are good enough to make a DA team but chose to stay with their club, and there are probably a great many more whose parents think they are good enough to make a DA team and think they are choosing not to, but they haven't actually tried out so they don't really know how competitive it is. Every bench warmer on a DA roster was considered a "top player" at his former club, and would be again if he chose to leave and go back to play for an EDP/CCL/NPL/NCSL team.

[Anonymous]

It seems that there is at least one poster whose kid plays in CCL upthread. Anyone else? Or any NPL families? What would your reaction be if your club announced that for the coming season, CCL (or NPL) was folding, and that all teams below the DA or ECNL level (if applicable) would move to NCSL? Would it be any different if the club said all former CCL (or NPL) teams would henceforth play in EDP?

[Anonymous]

The Travel Club DA teams are essentially the former A teams of those Clubs—especially at the pre-DA age groups U12-U14.

I think that’s what a pp meant, but it wasn’t expressed clearly.

DCU and Bethesda are different.