CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are discussing the relevance of CCL with ECNL, DA and EDP as options. EDP is a viable and better option now with the national league.

That's not why the thread was started.

DP here. The original post suggested that both CCL and VPL have outlived their usefulness and suggested that NCSL would be a better option for players/teams especially with promotion/relegation. Some folks responded by suggesting that NCSL is not competitive enough. I think that it is legitimate to suggest that ECNL, DA and EDP are also viable options with a higher level of play if one were to assume that NCSL does not offer high enough level of competition. It is not like this discussion moved to a different topic.

[Anonymous]

NCSL is the equivalent of travel rec. Not sure what you are after, but NCSL in my opinion will offer inconsistent referees, inconsistent fields, lumpy competition and ZERO recruiting possibilities.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know but maybe combine the leagues under u12 and just have the local teams(cut way down on the drive times) play each other. The clubs really do not care about u12 and below.

[Anonymous]

It was only 4 years ago that PWSI had to part ways with CCL because their U13/U14s were going DA...now CCL is getting 'B' teams all over the place due to ECNL and DA. End it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NCSL is the equivalent of travel rec. Not sure what you are after, but NCSL in my opinion will offer inconsistent referees, inconsistent fields, lumpy competition and ZERO recruiting possibilities.

The game is about so much more than recruiting. Get over yourself. We have the most youth players of any 1st world country, and even if they’re not able to, players and teams at the lower levels should have the possibility of ascending through the levels. Your elitist view only serves to satisfy egos.

[Anonymous]

NCSL and CCL have a role but after u14, it is not the ideal place for many players targeting college or higher, whether girl or buy. College coaches and others that recruit know the quality of the league although not everyone has those ambitions so those who want to play at a competitive level without driving up and down the east coast Below u14/15, it makes less sense to do invest the time and resources into DA/ECNL. At those ages, NCSL/CCL is a better option for many parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NCSL is the equivalent of travel rec. Not sure what you are after, but NCSL in my opinion will offer inconsistent referees, inconsistent fields, lumpy competition and ZERO recruiting possibilities.

I'll fix that for you: CCL and NPL are the equivalent of travel rec. Not sure what you are after, but CCL/NPL in my opinion will offer inconsistent referees, inconsistent fields, lumpy competition and ZERO recruiting possibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know but maybe combine the leagues under u12 and just have the local teams(cut way down on the drive times) play each other. The clubs really do not care about u12 and below.

+100

It should be strictly about development and training U12 and below. I actually think U13 and below. This Club BS just gets coaches solely trying to build teams to win and not develop or invest in players. They have to pick the most athletic kids and they resort to tactics in games that are not the best for development just to rack up wins.

There is no reason a kid needs to be in a car for a regular season game in Richmond, VA Beach, Charlottesville, West VA, etc. It is plain stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know but maybe combine the leagues under u12 and just have the local teams(cut way down on the drive times) play each other. The clubs really do not care about u12 and below.

+100

It should be strictly about development and training U12 and below. I actually think U13 and below. This Club BS just gets coaches solely trying to build teams to win and not develop or invest in players. They have to pick the most athletic kids and they resort to tactics in games that are not the best for development just to rack up wins.

There is no reason a kid needs to be in a car for a regular season game in Richmond, VA Beach, Charlottesville, West VA, etc. It is plain stupid.

so I meant--yes, just have local teams playing each other and cut the 'competitive' league bs in the younger years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know but maybe combine the leagues under u12 and just have the local teams(cut way down on the drive times) play each other. The clubs really do not care about u12 and below.

+100

It should be strictly about development and training U12 and below. I actually think U13 and below. This Club BS just gets coaches solely trying to build teams to win and not develop or invest in players. They have to pick the most athletic kids and they resort to tactics in games that are not the best for development just to rack up wins.

There is no reason a kid needs to be in a car for a regular season game in Richmond, VA Beach, Charlottesville, West VA, etc. It is plain stupid.

There are a lot of coaches who try to put together the most athletic teams for the purpose of winning games (even scrimmages) in the short term, and they will do this unless a TD or similar intervenes. Other coaches care more about development and soccer for itself and would never resort to playing ugly soccer for a win. In my experience, these coaches tend to keep to their individual styles regardless of the league or competition structure. I actually do think there are a lot of benefits to kids in the U10-U13 age groups playing competitive games under the direction of a good, soccer-first style coach. I would love to see an improved NCSL as the one primary local league for this reason. I also agree there's no reason for kids to travel as far as CCL currently requires, though I would feel a bit bad for the CCL south teams to have a source of decent competition removed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

Are you responding to my post about Baltimore Celtic? I do not believe, at all, that all players need to be in DA to have good soccer development or have good opportunities to be recruited to college or have pro options down the line. My only point is that Baltimore Celtic is not the best example to support the non-DA point of view because their success is due in part to some factors that can't be replicated in most other cities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

And I was countering that assumption since I know several players that made DA teams that left for Clubs that play in the top Division of EDP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.

Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.

The poster that insists on DA being the only place to have the 'elitist of the elite' is the parent that has a kid in DA or a club with DA.

Most people do not think that Travel Club DA is any better than the top teams in leagues like EDP, etc. Travel Club DA is generally that travel Club's A team, former CCL---but now CCL is no longer for them, etc. So, why drive longer to practice?

MLS DA serves only a niche of families that are willing to drive a long distance. It also serves families that like MLS and see MLS soccer as an option for their kid. There are many people that hate the MLS style and level of play. DCU is the most expensive DA in the entire Country.

The pp is correct that many, many top Universities are still recruiting players outside of DA.

I don't think anyone was making the argument that the "elitist of the elite" are only in the DA. Of course great players and even teams exist outside DA. The point was that _on average_ the quality of player in the DA is higher than that of outside clubs such as those in EDP top divisions, and the net is that _on average_ more D1 prospects will come from DA teams than non DA. I don't know why this is such a lightning rod for some people.

And I was countering that assumption since I know several players that made DA teams that left for Clubs that play in the top Division of EDP.

If you are countering the idea that the average DA player is of higher quality than the average EDP 1st Div player, make the case in concrete terms. An anecdote doesn't cut the mustard.