women's invisible labor - anyone had luck getting spouse to take on more of the mental work?

[Anonymous]

Nope. We were actually amazing at dividing up the actual physical work. He did yard work, laundry, groceries, split daycare pick-up and drop-off.... I did cooking, shopping, gardening, etc. no issues there ever.

I developed pretty severe hypothyroidism and it took about 6-7 months to figure it out from when the worst of the symptoms started. Like crippling exhaustion, no energy, etc. during that time, we went through birthdays and the holidays. I did what I could, but a lot of it was that "mental burden" of planning, making things special, etc.

Once I got back on my feet again, he pretty much told me that he felt like I had abandoned him, didn't appreciate him, and could NEVER understand how hard it was for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't we already have this conversation...multiple times? He ain't doing jack. Get used to it.

And for poster #2 - many of OP's example require mental labor. Would you rather be sipping margaritas on a lounger by the pool or pouring over a digital calendar trying to see when Kid A is free from soccer camp and you aren't going on a grocery run to see when you can schedule the orthodontist trip you forgot?

One example is called relaxing.

The other is called labor. Which adds up into fatigue and exhaustion.

This is life, a very basic and easy first world life at that.. You have to think. Life is not sitting on a chair drinking yourself or pickled. There is nothing challenging about making a shopping list, finding one of hundreds of pediatricians in the area, or scheduling camp. Hard mental work is performing hand surgery, rewiring your homes electric, searching for fresh water daily for your family, hard is having a tooth ache and no access to a dentist, hard is or rebuilding an engine. Deciding between YMCA or art camp is not a struggle. Unless you are mentally challenged.

It is for me. It's called having enough money to outsource.

But for women as shown above who can't, they are taking on 85% of that labor (zero pay) and their DHs are complaining if asked to do 15%. I mean if that's what you signed up for fine, but don't act like labor, mentally or physically, isn't such. Whether its in a cubicle and you're doing it for a company or at your kitchen table and you're doing it for people who disregard it as in any way worthwhile.

Imagine if it didn't get done.

[Anonymous]

Well I got a divorce and he suddenly had to learn where the kids go to school and what doctor they see. He literally did not know where the kids school was located.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well I got a divorce and he suddenly had to learn where the kids go to school and what doctor they see. He literally did not know where the kids school was located.

I bet this is your wet dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't we already have this conversation...multiple times? He ain't doing jack. Get used to it.

And for poster #2 - many of OP's example require mental labor. Would you rather be sipping margaritas on a lounger by the pool or pouring over a digital calendar trying to see when Kid A is free from soccer camp and you aren't going on a grocery run to see when you can schedule the orthodontist trip you forgot?

One example is called relaxing.

The other is called labor. Which adds up into fatigue and exhaustion.

This is life, a very basic and easy first world life at that.. You have to think. Life is not sitting on a chair drinking yourself or pickled. There is nothing challenging about making a shopping list, finding one of hundreds of pediatricians in the area, or scheduling camp. Hard mental work is performing hand surgery, rewiring your homes electric, searching for fresh water daily for your family, hard is having a tooth ache and no access to a dentist, hard is or rebuilding an engine. Deciding between YMCA or art camp is not a struggle. Unless you are mentally challenged.

It is for me. It's called having enough money to outsource.

But for women as shown above who can't, they are taking on 85% of that labor (zero pay) and their DHs are complaining if asked to do 15%. I mean if that's what you signed up for fine, but don't act like labor, mentally or physically, isn't such. Whether its in a cubicle and you're doing it for a company or at your kitchen table and you're doing it for people who disregard it as in any way worthwhile.

Imagine if it didn't get done.

No, it's called being an addict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope. We were actually amazing at dividing up the actual physical work. He did yard work, laundry, groceries, split daycare pick-up and drop-off.... I did cooking, shopping, gardening, etc. no issues there ever.

I developed pretty severe hypothyroidism and it took about 6-7 months to figure it out from when the worst of the symptoms started. Like crippling exhaustion, no energy, etc. during that time, we went through birthdays and the holidays. I did what I could, but a lot of it was that "mental burden" of planning, making things special, etc.

Once I got back on my feet again, he pretty much told me that he felt like I had abandoned him, didn't appreciate him, and could NEVER understand how hard it was for him.

I hope he learned a valuable lesson. Does he recognize the irony of saying those words to you (assuming you felt that way toward him prior to your illness)?

[Anonymous]

I don't have advice, but maybe I define mental load differently. I think by asking him to do XYZ I am already doing the mental work of thinking about the things that need to get done. Example, last week we went on a trip. I SAH so usually I pack for DH, baby, and me. It takes a lot of planning and thinking. Leading up to our trip I was very busy, so I asked him to take over packing, I had already done about 60% of it. It wasn't as much help as I wanted because I had to tell him exactly all the things we still needed to pack (I had told him what was packed too (sometimes more than once) and also where to find them...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't we already have this conversation...multiple times? He ain't doing jack. Get used to it.

And for poster #2 - many of OP's example require mental labor. Would you rather be sipping margaritas on a lounger by the pool or pouring over a digital calendar trying to see when Kid A is free from soccer camp and you aren't going on a grocery run to see when you can schedule the orthodontist trip you forgot?

One example is called relaxing.

The other is called labor. Which adds up into fatigue and exhaustion.

This is life, a very basic and easy first world life at that.. You have to think. Life is not sitting on a chair drinking yourself or pickled. There is nothing challenging about making a shopping list, finding one of hundreds of pediatricians in the area, or scheduling camp. Hard mental work is performing hand surgery, rewiring your homes electric, searching for fresh water daily for your family, hard is having a tooth ache and no access to a dentist, hard is or rebuilding an engine. Deciding between YMCA or art camp is not a struggle. Unless you are mentally challenged.

It is for me. It's called having enough money to outsource.

But for women as shown above who can't, they are taking on 85% of that labor (zero pay) and their DHs are complaining if asked to do 15%. I mean if that's what you signed up for fine, but don't act like labor, mentally or physically, isn't such. Whether its in a cubicle and you're doing it for a company or at your kitchen table and you're doing it for people who disregard it as in any way worthwhile.

Imagine if it didn't get done.

Sorry, I grocery shop. Signed my kids up for camp (took 2 whole hours), and schedule one physical a year. This is not labor. This is not hard. It is so minimal, that I couldn't imagine outsourcing that.

If you all weren't such martyrs, I guarantee it would get done. Lots and lots of men do these things. They just dont have wives who like to crucify themselves and engage in self flagellation in order to earn whining rights.

[Anonymous]

None of that stuff is really mental work. I’m the dad and I routinely do all that stuff and also plan vacations and work a job. Big deal. It’s called life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't have advice, but maybe I define mental load differently. I think by asking him to do XYZ I am already doing the mental work of thinking about the things that need to get done. Example, last week we went on a trip. I SAH so usually I pack for DH, baby, and me. It takes a lot of planning and thinking. Leading up to our trip I was very busy, so I asked him to take over packing, I had already done about 60% of it. It wasn't as much help as I wanted because I had to tell him exactly all the things we still needed to pack (I had told him what was packed too (sometimes more than once) and also where to find them...

You are not a wife. You are his mommy. This is the problem.

Why are things like packing and grocery shopping so hard for you people? Serious question!

If I'm going away for 10 days I pack for 5 and wash my clothes in the middle of the trip to reduce bags. Just make sure the laundry is clean before you pack. Should not take more than 15min per traveler. What the hell?

The only trip I took that was "hard" to pack for was Jordan because I had to be a bit more conservative during a very hot time of year. Took some (gasp, my head hurts!) Shopping for some new things to bring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm 21:02 with the ADHD spouse.

There are always two kinds of people who respond to these posts - the ones who think nothing of doing all that planning, and the ones for whom it is a burden.

It depends on how good your executive functioning is, frankly. Mine isn't great, so being the general manager is not always easy, which breeds resentment since my spouse can do even less (I mean, nothing).

I've met people who would happily organize their family's lives as well as the entire org at work, the PTA, the swim team and the Scouts their kids are in, not to mention the their church group, book club and choir. I admire them from afar.

Yeah, I'm here. It's awful and very, very hard. My executive functioning is pretty high, but the bar for my spouse is so low it's like, "congrats! You put toilet paper in the holder instead of throwing napkins on the sink." I have taken over. What's the option? Kids activities and education? Pretty form on being the manager of all. And...good guy if that need a to be said.

[Anonymous]

Hi, I'm the OP here. Like another poster said...to some people, planning and organizing come easily. They don't come easily to my husband, and they are challenging to me because of the volume and constant nature of this work. To all of you who find these tasks to be easy, congratulations.

I can do planning/organizing tasks very well at my full-time job, but in the off hours, I'd like the planning and organizing tasks to be more evenly divided so I am not the household manager, delegating tasks and making sure the tasks are completed. It puts me on the computer many hours a day, which is not healthy and gives me little time to relax. And I want to avoid the dynamic of one person frequently reminding the other spouse and children to do tasks.

I'd like my husband to take care of a complete domain such as arranging childcare or handling everything to do with medical appointments/health insurance. Has anyone been in a similar position within their marriage and found a way to more evenly balance the planning/organizing/household management tasks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had luck getting their DH to take on more of the household tasks such as updating shopping lists, arranging camps for children, finding a pediatrician, planning a party or meals for the week -- things that require research and planning?

For those who do not know what I'm talking about, it's called women's invisible labor, and it's been widely discussed in the news media -- for example, http://time.com/money/4561314/women-work-home-gender-gap/

When I discuss with DH, he gets defensive. He points out that he does more than most men, and he points out all the things he does, as if I'm attacking him. I just need him to take on a greater load of executive functioning tasks. I've bowed out of certain areas, and then nothing happens in those areas (and they are important tasks related to school, home maintenance, and our family relations.) We both work full-time, and I'm tired.

Has anyone found a good way to get a man to take on more of the mental workload required to run a home and a family? I am interested in very practical approaches. I am not asking my DH to do things perfectly. I'm OK with stepping back and letting him do things his way. I just can't continue to be the one who has to remember and delegate and remind. Thank you!

Don’t plan parties and don’t do shopping lists/trips. Offer up for DH to plan a party if he’s like. You have to continue coordinating summer camps for childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi, I'm the OP here. Like another poster said...to some people, planning and organizing come easily. They don't come easily to my husband, and they are challenging to me because of the volume and constant nature of this work. To all of you who find these tasks to be easy, congratulations.

I can do planning/organizing tasks very well at my full-time job, but in the off hours, I'd like the planning and organizing tasks to be more evenly divided so I am not the household manager, delegating tasks and making sure the tasks are completed. It puts me on the computer many hours a day, which is not healthy and gives me little time to relax. And I want to avoid the dynamic of one person frequently reminding the other spouse and children to do tasks.

I'd like my husband to take care of a complete domain such as arranging childcare or handling everything to do with medical appointments/health insurance. Has anyone been in a similar position within their marriage and found a way to more evenly balance the planning/organizing/household management tasks?

I haven’t decided if men are truly unable to plan things or if they just use incompetence as an excuse. Maybe a little of both.

The best way to handle this is to assign him something, not discuss it at great length and then remove yourself from it. Tell him when he’s listening that he’s in charge of birthday parties going forward. That this means the invitations, cake, food etc. then don’t mention it again. This means you don’t provide reminders, don’t micro manage, don’t pick it the cake, NOTHING. See what happens. You may be surprised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have advice, but maybe I define mental load differently. I think by asking him to do XYZ I am already doing the mental work of thinking about the things that need to get done. Example, last week we went on a trip. I SAH so usually I pack for DH, baby, and me. It takes a lot of planning and thinking. Leading up to our trip I was very busy, so I asked him to take over packing, I had already done about 60% of it. It wasn't as much help as I wanted because I had to tell him exactly all the things we still needed to pack (I had told him what was packed too (sometimes more than once) and also where to find them...

You are not a wife. You are his mommy. This is the problem.

Why are things like packing and grocery shopping so hard for you people? Serious question!

If I'm going away for 10 days I pack for 5 and wash my clothes in the middle of the trip to reduce bags. Just make sure the laundry is clean before you pack. Should not take more than 15min per traveler. What the hell?

The only trip I took that was "hard" to pack for was Jordan because I had to be a bit more conservative during a very hot time of year. Took some (gasp, my head hurts!) Shopping for some new things to bring.

Yeah wtf. Why are you packing for your husband????