13 birthday party drama

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you kind moms for the perspectives. Yes, this is bullying, as I was able to observe on text messages and snapchat. It is the reason I have removed snapchat from DD's phone, even though she's perfectly capable of removing regular messages as well. Still, she does not, perhaps to invite the discussion.

I define bullying by actively organizing to remove this kid from their group, advocating with new members of the group to avoid her, checking in with my child to make sure she does avoid her, using expletives whenever this girl's name is mentioned. I am not sure what they do to her in person, at school.

Removing my child from this group is tough, because they are in the same class at school, so they see each other every day. Things can also turn against my kid (as they had, in the past), and she would not be able to handle that outcome nearly as gracefully as her friend has. This is the one "fun" class DD has in 7th grade, which explains their influence. I talked to the friend's mom and the effects on her kid are profound.

So inviting everyone to great big party seems to be out of the question -- the nastiness is too advanced for that to happen. I also do not want to reward bad behavior by proceeding with the party as planned, without this kid. I'll have a chat with DD and figure out alternative options, as many have pointed out. I have also reached out to the school at this point, because we will need their support in addressing the issue, at least help separating the parties involved and support the girl who is getting bullied.

Thank you again for the sane perspective.

Yeah, this is well beyond just not liking the girl. Organizing the group to make sure she is excluded is not okay--it's fine if they don't like her, but it's way over the line to try to make sure that other people don't spend time with her, either. Absolutely no way would those girls be invited to any party I was hosting.

I would suggest to your daughter that she invite this girl on a fun outing for her birthday, and perhaps include one or two other girls who are not among the bullies.

I'd also be addressing the larger issue, as well, and helping your daughter see the harm she does when she goes along with mean girls rather than stand up for a friend. I'm sure she fears retaliation, but that is precisely the reason she should not be friends with these girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you kind moms for the perspectives. Yes, this is bullying, as I was able to observe on text messages and snapchat. It is the reason I have removed snapchat from DD's phone, even though she's perfectly capable of removing regular messages as well. Still, she does not, perhaps to invite the discussion.

I define bullying by actively organizing to remove this kid from their group, advocating with new members of the group to avoid her, checking in with my child to make sure she does avoid her, using expletives whenever this girl's name is mentioned. I am not sure what they do to her in person, at school.

Removing my child from this group is tough, because they are in the same class at school, so they see each other every day. Things can also turn against my kid (as they had, in the past), and she would not be able to handle that outcome nearly as gracefully as her friend has. This is the one "fun" class DD has in 7th grade, which explains their influence. I talked to the friend's mom and the effects on her kid are profound.

So inviting everyone to great big party seems to be out of the question -- the nastiness is too advanced for that to happen. I also do not want to reward bad behavior by proceeding with the party as planned, without this kid. I'll have a chat with DD and figure out alternative options, as many have pointed out. I have also reached out to the school at this point, because we will need their support in addressing the issue, at least help separating the parties involved and support the girl who is getting bullied.

Thank you again for the sane perspective.

1. You can remove the text function from her phone, shut it off
2. Cancel the party, this sounds like a mess in the making. Do something smaller, family focused this year.

Don't cancel the party. It seems like your DD likes the girl and just doesn't want to upset the other two girls. Don't punish your DD if she hasn't been taking part in the bullying. Talk to her about solutions/alternatives that don't further the bullying.

[Anonymous]

Nothing OP has posted makes it sound like Ops daughter is 100% innocent in this whole scenario. If indeed she is, then don’t invite the bullies. However, if OPs daughter has been involved whether directly or indirectly, party should be canceled. This is a previous PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a severe over use of the word bully on this thread. Not liking another kid is not bullying. 13 year old girls are allowed to not love everyone.

If I was in your situation I'd scrap the party idea entirely. I'd let my DD pick ONE friend to do something special with to celebrate.

+1. My children know they must be polite to anyone they have to interact with regardless of whether or not they like the person, but for voluntary social occasions during their free time they can choose who to invite based on who they enjoy spending time with. I would not get involved in OP's scenario, especially given that it's the kid's birthday party.

If someone was invited and people were unkind, I would put a stop to that, but not being invited to something isn't treating the girl badly.

Reading comprehension. There are lots of signs that this is more than just "not liking" someone.

I read OP's post and follow-up.

So, several girls do not like Larla, and discuss amongst themselves that they do not wish to spend time around Larla. I personally have no problem with that.

Now, using profanity to talk about Larla and calling her rude things is certainly unkind and tasteless, so I would speak to my DD about the variety of reasons it is best to speak politely about others. Again, though, people's own opinions and what kids talk about between themselves is something I regard as their own business. I would only consider it bullying if the kids were calling Larla such things to her face or in a manner that makes it likely she would become aware of what they are saying -- to me, OP's post wasn't clear on that.

It's one thing to tell a group of people (your friends over a morning coffee, for example) how much of a b*tch someone is being at work and how it is making your life unnecessarily difficult. It would be another thing entirely -- and completely inappropriate -- to call said annoying coworker a b*tch to her face or to circulate an email throughout the entire company in which you call her what you happen to think of her. This seems like an analogous situation.

The kids don't like Larla and don't want to spend time around her. Forcing the DD to invite Larla to the party serves very little purpose and is likely to backfire. We're all a bit biased by our own perspectives and past experiences, and based on mine I want my children to understand that while civility towards anyone who isn't dangerous is required it is also acceptable to decide to limit interactions with other people you don't particularly care for. I can think of no circumstance under which I would force any of my kids to invite another person to an occasion with a primarily social purpose, because it just doesn't seem at all sensible.

[Anonymous]

Pp you are the one bringing your own projections here. Op clearly stated that her dd is actually friends with Larla. But she becomes a minion of the man girls in their presence. When one or two girls manage to pick on one kid and get all the other kids inn a group to follow them... That's not normal natural inclinations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. This is a hard one.

I know from experience that not inviting the mean girls will almost certainly means that your kid will start getting bullied by them.

If you try to do separate activities with either your DD and the mean girls or DD and the one friend, it could still lead to bullying. Example, you do something separate with the bullies and they lord it over everyone how much better/special they are to the other girls in the group. Or you take the solo friend and the mean girls find out and just bully her over that.

I’d invite everyone and the email all of the parents a note like, “I’ve heard rumblings of bullying behavior in the group. This behavior will not be tolerated. I’ll have a chat with the girls before the party starts but would appreciate if everyone reminded their kids to not bully.” Or something to that effect.

I've worked with girls this age and have my own daughter and I can tell you

a.) Many moms of bullies will not even consider the fact their own child could be a bully. Denial runs deep.
b.) Relational aggression is often done in such a passive aggressive way it is hard to call someone on it and you could cause a big issue if the kid tells her parents she was falsely accused.

During years our kids are in these kind of sticky groups we just have a family birthday or allow just one friend for a special hang out. Our son also has these situations some years. If our kid chooses the bully for the hangout we decline. My kids can choose their friends, but we do nothing to help support friendships with mean kids and we talk with our kids about what truly matters in life. Life is too short to waste time obsessing over parties where kids could either be bullied or feel ostracized. This isn't about special snowflakes. It's about us not spending money entertaining kids who can't be kind to eachother and not having to police them.

My DD is still a bit younger but I have to say that this sounds like a good way to approach it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a severe over use of the word bully on this thread. Not liking another kid is not bullying. 13 year old girls are allowed to not love everyone.

If I was in your situation I'd scrap the party idea entirely. I'd let my DD pick ONE friend to do something special with to celebrate.

+1. My children know they must be polite to anyone they have to interact with regardless of whether or not they like the person, but for voluntary social occasions during their free time they can choose who to invite based on who they enjoy spending time with. I would not get involved in OP's scenario, especially given that it's the kid's birthday party.

If someone was invited and people were unkind, I would put a stop to that, but not being invited to something isn't treating the girl badly.

Reading comprehension. There are lots of signs that this is more than just "not liking" someone.

I read OP's post and follow-up.

So, several girls do not like Larla, and discuss amongst themselves that they do not wish to spend time around Larla. I personally have no problem with that.

Now, using profanity to talk about Larla and calling her rude things is certainly unkind and tasteless, so I would speak to my DD about the variety of reasons it is best to speak politely about others. Again, though, people's own opinions and what kids talk about between themselves is something I regard as their own business. I would only consider it bullying if the kids were calling Larla such things to her face or in a manner that makes it likely she would become aware of what they are saying -- to me, OP's post wasn't clear on that.

It's one thing to tell a group of people (your friends over a morning coffee, for example) how much of a b*tch someone is being at work and how it is making your life unnecessarily difficult. It would be another thing entirely -- and completely inappropriate -- to call said annoying coworker a b*tch to her face or to circulate an email throughout the entire company in which you call her what you happen to think of her. This seems like an analogous situation.

The kids don't like Larla and don't want to spend time around her. Forcing the DD to invite Larla to the party serves very little purpose and is likely to backfire. We're all a bit biased by our own perspectives and past experiences, and based on mine I want my children to understand that while civility towards anyone who isn't dangerous is required it is also acceptable to decide to limit interactions with other people you don't particularly care for. I can think of no circumstance under which I would force any of my kids to invite another person to an occasion with a primarily social purpose, because it just doesn't seem at all sensible.

This mom is the prime example of how queen bee bullying ends up with the victim cutting or killing themselves.

When the mom is on board with mean or bullying behavior, as this mom is, there really isn't anything that can be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. This is a hard one.

I know from experience that not inviting the mean girls will almost certainly means that your kid will start getting bullied by them.

If you try to do separate activities with either your DD and the mean girls or DD and the one friend, it could still lead to bullying. Example, you do something separate with the bullies and they lord it over everyone how much better/special they are to the other girls in the group. Or you take the solo friend and the mean girls find out and just bully her over that.

I’d invite everyone and the email all of the parents a note like, “I’ve heard rumblings of bullying behavior in the group. This behavior will not be tolerated. I’ll have a chat with the girls before the party starts but would appreciate if everyone reminded their kids to not bully.” Or something to that effect.

I've worked with girls this age and have my own daughter and I can tell you

a.) Many moms of bullies will not even consider the fact their own child could be a bully. Denial runs deep.
b.) Relational aggression is often done in such a passive aggressive way it is hard to call someone on it and you could cause a big issue if the kid tells her parents she was falsely accused.

During years our kids are in these kind of sticky groups we just have a family birthday or allow just one friend for a special hang out. Our son also has these situations some years. If our kid chooses the bully for the hangout we decline. My kids can choose their friends, but we do nothing to help support friendships with mean kids and we talk with our kids about what truly matters in life. Life is too short to waste time obsessing over parties where kids could either be bullied or feel ostracized. This isn't about special snowflakes. It's about us not spending money entertaining kids who can't be kind to eachother and not having to police them.

I'm another person who works with kids this age and I want to add on one more to the PP's great points:
c) Relational aggression is a learned trait and most frequently girls who use relational aggression have learned it from their mothers at home. It is highly doubtful that the mothers will even recognize the daughters' behaviors as bullying or mean girl behavior, and it is very likely that the pack will turn on you and your daughter.

So while I appreciate the kindness of your thoughts, I do not thing there is any amount of hovering or pre-messaging that will "protect" the girl being bullied if she is at the party. Unfortunately, I think you will either need make the party very small with two or three best friends, or you should just have a home party with family and maybe one friend.

I think your daughter should seriously consider saying something to her guidance counselor at school so that they can begin to attack the problem. Relational aggression won't fade away. It needs to be addressed.

[Anonymous]

My DD went through this exact thing starting in 7th grade. She had a nice group of friends going into middle school but at some point one of the sweetest girls in her group became the target of the queen bee. A few others began to pile on the sweet girl. As I watched it unfold I realized it was about self preservation - they didn't want to be the one ousted so they pile on the sweet girl to impress the queen bee and save themselves from being the target. I explained to my DD what was happening as it unfolded and discussed doing the right thing no matter what. Warning: It was not easy. Fast forward to the end of 8th grade - my DD and the sweet girl found other nice girls to be friends with and have a nice big group and the 3 mean girls left in her old group are still up to their old tricks and haven't found new "followers". Lesson learned is talk to your daughter about surrounding herself with nice friends and always stick up for the nice kids. By 8th grade other kids start to figure out who the mean girls are and don't want to be associated with them. OP, you don't want your DD stuck on that side of the fence at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Avoid the celebration entirely.

Yup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Avoid the celebration entirely.

Yup.

To elaborate, cancel the group thing. There is just no good way to carry on with that. Have a small family based get together.

Dr is not navigating things well right now. She is taking part in the exclusionary bullying, while trying to avoid the same thing herself.

Cancel and tell her this is not a dynamic you will play a part in. She could tell her "friends" that you simply Don't want to deal with a bunch of teenagers.

Then you need to deal with this whole issue.

Who does she want as friends? What will happen if she distances themselves from the mean girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you kind moms for the perspectives. Yes, this is bullying, as I was able to observe on text messages and snapchat. It is the reason I have removed snapchat from DD's phone, even though she's perfectly capable of removing regular messages as well. Still, she does not, perhaps to invite the discussion.

I define bullying by actively organizing to remove this kid from their group, advocating with new members of the group to avoid her, checking in with my child to make sure she does avoid her, using expletives whenever this girl's name is mentioned. I am not sure what they do to her in person, at school.

Removing my child from this group is tough, because they are in the same class at school, so they see each other every day. Things can also turn against my kid (as they had, in the past), and she would not be able to handle that outcome nearly as gracefully as her friend has. This is the one "fun" class DD has in 7th grade, which explains their influence. I talked to the friend's mom and the effects on her kid are profound.

So inviting everyone to great big party seems to be out of the question -- the nastiness is too advanced for that to happen. I also do not want to reward bad behavior by proceeding with the party as planned, without this kid. I'll have a chat with DD and figure out alternative options, as many have pointed out. I have also reached out to the school at this point, because we will need their support in addressing the issue, at least help separating the parties involved and support the girl who is getting bullied.

Thank you again for the sane perspective.

1. You can remove the text function from her phone, shut it off
2. Cancel the party, this sounds like a mess in the making. Do something smaller, family focused this year.

Don't cancel the party. It seems like your DD likes the girl and just doesn't want to upset the other two girls. Don't punish your DD if she hasn't been taking part in the bullying. Talk to her about solutions/alternatives that don't further the bullying.

I disagree. I think your daughter needs to know that if there is no way to have the party without making her complicit in the bullying, then the party can't happen now. You can find other special things to do to celebrate, but you as a mom should not model an acceptance of bullying by spending money on a day when your daughter is complicit.

Your daughter is complicit, even if she is acting from fear or weakness.

You can always have an "end of school party" if things resolve by then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Avoid the celebration entirely.

Yup.

To elaborate, cancel the group thing. There is just no good way to carry on with that. Have a small family based get together.

Dr is not navigating things well right now. She is taking part in the exclusionary bullying, while trying to avoid the same thing herself.

Cancel and tell her this is not a dynamic you will play a part in. She could tell her "friends" that you simply Don't want to deal with a bunch of teenagers.

Then you need to deal with this whole issue.

Who does she want as friends? What will happen if she distances themselves from the mean girls?

Or you could say "My mom caught me texting when I was supposed to be studying and I'm grounded. I hate her." - take the blame on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Avoid the celebration entirely.

Yup.

To elaborate, cancel the group thing. There is just no good way to carry on with that. Have a small family based get together.

Dr is not navigating things well right now. She is taking part in the exclusionary bullying, while trying to avoid the same thing herself.

Cancel and tell her this is not a dynamic you will play a part in. She could tell her "friends" that you simply Don't want to deal with a bunch of teenagers.

Then you need to deal with this whole issue.

Who does she want as friends? What will happen if she distances themselves from the mean girls?

Or you could say "My mom caught me texting when I was supposed to be studying and I'm grounded. I hate her." - take the blame on you.

Yes That's a good strategy. We let our kids use that when necessary.

"My mom saw the texts and won't let me have the party. She says she won't allow bullying so the party is off."

If only......

[Anonymous]

Anothet option is to organize a large party with fun activities and make sure the targeted girl has a close friend with her. I've found kids tend to behave at large parties that have fun things to do and that are short (like 2 hours).

Or you could go the opposite direction and have one friend over for a sleepover.

What does your daughter want to do? At 13 I found that nowadays most don't have parties.