Should I tell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You focus on your and the boyfriend's education and looks to demonstrate worth (superiority). WhaWhat if they are looking for someone with kindness, humor, ethics, etc.?

I totally get that they may take issue with race, and that is wrong wrong wrong. But so is judging worth based on looks and education level.

It's OP's parents who made it clear they weren't focused on kindness, humor and ethics. They are concerned he doesn't make enough money.

Not true. They liked the "chronically unemployed white guy." And nothing in the original post indicates that they cared about looks at all.

He doesn't make enough money to make up for the fact that he's Hispanic. The focus on the guy's qualifications is from the parents, not the Op.

OK, accepting that as true, can we agree that looks have no place in the conversation?

From what I understand the looks come from the sister's requirements, which is why they come into play.

Where do you get that? I honestly see nothing about the sister caring about looks.

[Anonymous]

PP here. Now Iee that the OP added something about the sister caring about looks in a later post. This seems odd since unemployed white guy was unattractive by OP's assessment.

[Anonymous]

OP, do you think your husband is good enough for you?

I'm sensing that you want to punish SIL/the family because you have residual issues with their behavior/attitudes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: a related question is should I call them on their behavior/views?

You will, OP. Most definitely you will.

The question is on whose terms. There will come a time when you just lose it and tell them about themselves, harshly. Something will set you off and you will not be able to deal with their bullshit one moment longer. Is that how you want to introduce your thoughts?

I can see the appeal of taking the brother-in-law-to-be aside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure if he asks you why they act they way they do, and you say, 'Take a guess.' That will suffice. Your presence is throwing off his radar.

OP here: I do worry this is the case. This man is banging his head on a brick wall and he takes my presence as a sign that there is hope. SIL just wants someone good looking who will let her stay home to marry and isn't concerned about how this will all turn out for the guy.

You never know. My friend married into a family like this. Her husband said if his parents had issues with her, he had issues with them. He hasn't spoken to them in 5 years. With good reason. They were horrible and toxic (I knew his family before they met). Frankly I'm surprised your Dh wants to keep them in your lives and expose your children to that. Maybe your SIL will be smart and stay with this nice guy and cut her parents off.

OP here: DH adores his parents, but I am actually the one who has wrestled with myself in order to keep them in the picture. They are good parents to DH and are also very loving to their grandchildren. I probably would not be part of the picture in their ideal family photo, but I am a big girl. I can take one for the team so that my husband and kids can have relatives who love them in their lives. They do say a lot of idle, ignorant things and as my kids get older, I know I will need to address this.

The problem with this guy is that he does not have sufficiently "redeeming" traits in their eyes (to make up for his race). So, I suspect they will never come around with him.

And now I question how bad they are. And how nice your DH is (sure he isn't using you for your money?). If my parents didn't like my spouse because of the color of her skin (they still don't like black people they just like money more) there is no way in hell I would expose my mixed race kids to them.

OP here: Yes, I am sure DH is not using me for money. With two children and many years of earnings within our marriage, he could have cashed out a long time ago and taken me for joint custody in order to get both child support and alimony, lol. Anyway, he has stood by me through a lot, so if he is hanging around for the money, I would say he has more than earned it!

I know that sooner or later I am going to have to sit down my in laws regarding their views of people of color. I am not worried about their perceptions of my children because family is very important to them and they adore their grandbabies. Ironically, they love my kids' naturally golden skin and adorable curls without really engaging with the fact that the tan and curl pattern are from my genes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short, when DH and I started dating, his parents were very unhappy with my race. I am black, DH is white. They were mostly polite to my face, but I could tell from the rude, sometimes shocking questions they asked that they had serious reservations and practically expected me to be a gangbanger or something. And then they found out that I am an ivy league educated doctor with a host of accolades and from a family of rich white collar professionals. DH's family is blue collar and DH is only college educated. He does well, but does not make as much as me. I fell in love with his character. After they realized my "pedigree", they warmed up really quickly. I accepted them and we have been mostly close, though I haven't quite forgotten that I basically had to be twice as good as any woman that DH had previously brought home in order for them to respect me.

Fast forward, DH's sister is a short, plump woman of very average looks. She works a low paying deadend job and is waiting to get married so that she can quit working (it's how she was raised). She has been dating a tall, handsome, dark-skinned Hispanic man for 9 months now. He is college educated and polite. DH's family is livid and his parents can't stop talking about how "disappointed" they are. What gets me though is that her ex was a chronically unemployed white guy who was neither handsome nor charming, and they just loved him. They keep talking about how this guy doesn't make enough money and isn't accomplished enough and it just smacks of once again requiring the person of color to be WAY better in order to be half as acceptable. His mother actually said the guy should be a doctor like me in order to be acceptable. Their daughter is neither smart nor attractive nor interesting, and yet she is the equivalent of a very well educated, handsome doctor of color?

Their discontent with this guy keeps coming up and it is starting to really piss me off. Recently, the guy asked me if I might know why my in laws are so frosty towards him. Should I tell?

What did she actually say? What words did she use?

OP here: She said mid-rant about my SIL's boyfriend, "I am just not sure about my daughter in that kind of culture! It would be better if he was at least a doctor like [insert my name]." And then she trailed off because she realized I was in the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've already posted several times about my distaste for your attitude OP, but I should answer you question. I see no problem with you telling him facts about what they have said about him. But I would not characterise their statements or put your interpretation on them. Based on what you have written, it seems as though you have made a lot of assumptions and judgements based on one thing you think you know about how they view the world. Leave that out.

OP here: I credit myself with enough intelligence to know exactly how my not-so-subtle in laws feel about other races, especially after having them in my life for years now. Thanks anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You focus on your and the boyfriend's education and looks to demonstrate worth (superiority). WhaWhat if they are looking for someone with kindness, humor, ethics, etc.?

I totally get that they may take issue with race, and that is wrong wrong wrong. But so is judging worth based on looks and education level.

It's OP's parents who made it clear they weren't focused on kindness, humor and ethics. They are concerned he doesn't make enough money.

Not true. They liked the "chronically unemployed white guy." And nothing in the original post indicates that they cared about looks at all.

He doesn't make enough money to make up for the fact that he's Hispanic. The focus on the guy's qualifications is from the parents, not the Op.

OK, accepting that as true, can we agree that looks have no place in the conversation?

From what I understand the looks come from the sister's requirements, which is why they come into play.

OP here: Exactly. She broke up with the white guy partly because he was fat, as were all of his relatives, and she didn't want her children getting fat genes from both parents. Her new boyfriend is handsome, sweet, polite, with a good job - basically everything that she wants and a lot more than she is bringing to the table - yet her parents are grieving as if he is an abusive felon or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Long story short, when DH and I started dating, his parents were very unhappy with my race. I am black, DH is white. They were mostly polite to my face, but I could tell from the rude, sometimes shocking questions they asked that they had serious reservations and practically expected me to be a gangbanger or something. And then they found out that I am an ivy league educated doctor with a host of accolades and from a family of rich white collar professionals. DH's family is blue collar and DH is only college educated. He does well, but does not make as much as me. I fell in love with his character. After they realized my "pedigree", they warmed up really quickly. I accepted them and we have been mostly close, though I haven't quite forgotten that I basically had to be twice as good as any woman that DH had previously brought home in order for them to respect me.

Fast forward, DH's sister is a short, plump woman of very average looks. She works a low paying deadend job and is waiting to get married so that she can quit working (it's how she was raised). She has been dating a tall, handsome, dark-skinned Hispanic man for 9 months now. He is college educated and polite. DH's family is livid and his parents can't stop talking about how "disappointed" they are. What gets me though is that her ex was a chronically unemployed white guy who was neither handsome nor charming, and they just loved him. They keep talking about how this guy doesn't make enough money and isn't accomplished enough and it just smacks of once again requiring the person of color to be WAY better in order to be half as acceptable. His mother actually said the guy should be a doctor like me in order to be acceptable. Their daughter is neither smart nor attractive nor interesting, and yet she is the equivalent of a very well educated, handsome doctor of color?

Their discontent with this guy keeps coming up and it is starting to really piss me off. Recently, the guy asked me if I might know why my in laws are so frosty towards him. Should I tell?

Yes, because they are both human beings.

You're showing a shockingly judgemental attitude when you talk about your sister in law. I'm sure she could use some support against the barrage her family is subjecting her to regarding her SO, but I guess that with you she's out of luck.

[Anonymous]

I would be supportive of the boyfriend in front of ILs. If he comes up in conversation, make sure to say that he seems very nice and really seems to take good care of SIL. Talk about how secure his job path is, etc. have your husband do the same. That may help sway your ILs if people they care about feel warmly to boyfriend. Will also make bf feel more comfortable at family gatherings if he sees that at least some family members are on his side

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short, when DH and I started dating, his parents were very unhappy with my race. I am black, DH is white. They were mostly polite to my face, but I could tell from the rude, sometimes shocking questions they asked that they had serious reservations and practically expected me to be a gangbanger or something. And then they found out that I am an ivy league educated doctor with a host of accolades and from a family of rich white collar professionals. DH's family is blue collar and DH is only college educated. He does well, but does not make as much as me. I fell in love with his character. After they realized my "pedigree", they warmed up really quickly. I accepted them and we have been mostly close, though I haven't quite forgotten that I basically had to be twice as good as any woman that DH had previously brought home in order for them to respect me.

Fast forward, DH's sister is a short, plump woman of very average looks. She works a low paying deadend job and is waiting to get married so that she can quit working (it's how she was raised). She has been dating a tall, handsome, dark-skinned Hispanic man for 9 months now. He is college educated and polite. DH's family is livid and his parents can't stop talking about how "disappointed" they are. What gets me though is that her ex was a chronically unemployed white guy who was neither handsome nor charming, and they just loved him. They keep talking about how this guy doesn't make enough money and isn't accomplished enough and it just smacks of once again requiring the person of color to be WAY better in order to be half as acceptable. His mother actually said the guy should be a doctor like me in order to be acceptable. Their daughter is neither smart nor attractive nor interesting, and yet she is the equivalent of a very well educated, handsome doctor of color?

Their discontent with this guy keeps coming up and it is starting to really piss me off. Recently, the guy asked me if I might know why my in laws are so frosty towards him. Should I tell?

Yes, because they are both human beings.

You're showing a shockingly judgemental attitude when you talk about your sister in law. I'm sure she could use some support against the barrage her family is subjecting her to regarding her SO, but I guess that with you she's out of luck.

OP here: Let me be clear, I do not evaluate people according to their finances and jobs. My in laws do, however. They have a very clear class-based hierarchy in their minds of what people deserve and should expect. They would never think that their daughter should land a white doctor. A doctor of color, however, is somehow diminished by his race in their eyes, so to them, that makes him just barely the equivalent of a white person with much less education. My post is written from that standpoint: Evaluating her within their hierarchy, their expectations of a person of color dating her make no sense if not for their racist views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've already posted several times about my distaste for your attitude OP, but I should answer you question. I see no problem with you telling him facts about what they have said about him. But I would not characterise their statements or put your interpretation on them. Based on what you have written, it seems as though you have made a lot of assumptions and judgements based on one thing you think you know about how they view the world. Leave that out.

OP here: I credit myself with enough intelligence to know exactly how my not-so-subtle in laws feel about other races, especially after having them in my life for years now. Thanks anyway.

So you do not want to take my suggestion that it would be OK to tell the boyfriend the facts about what they have said, rand leave out assumptions? OK then. Seems to me that is solid advice in almost all delicate social situations, but if you disagree....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you think your husband is good enough for you?

I'm sensing that you want to punish SIL/the family because you have residual issues with their behavior/attitudes.

OP here: My husband is the love of my life. If I was the type to evaluate people according to degrees and earnings, I wouldn't be married to him, would I? I dated wealthy men before meeting him. When I say I fell in love with his character, I mean that as the highest praise. He has a beautiful heart and is of better character than 99% of people in the world. Apart from their racist views, his parents are nice people. Racism is a big character flaw, but they are a product of their blue collar, all white background, so I try to have patience and see them in their entirety. I do not mean to punish the family, but I feel hurt for SIL's boyfriend. The man is trying so hard and they can't look past his race. I have kept my distance, but now that he is approaching me for moral support and encouragement, I feel almost as if I will be responsible too if I let him keep wasting his time like this.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe the OP is real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've already posted several times about my distaste for your attitude OP, but I should answer you question. I see no problem with you telling him facts about what they have said about him. But I would not characterise their statements or put your interpretation on them. Based on what you have written, it seems as though you have made a lot of assumptions and judgements based on one thing you think you know about how they view the world. Leave that out.

OP here: I credit myself with enough intelligence to know exactly how my not-so-subtle in laws feel about other races, especially after having them in my life for years now. Thanks anyway.

So you do not want to take my suggestion that it would be OK to tell the boyfriend the facts about what they have said, rand leave out assumptions? OK then. Seems to me that is solid advice in almost all delicate social situations, but if you disagree....

OP here: If I tell him, I will take a factual approach simply because my in laws are family, as annoying as their views can be. I don't bash family (except anonymously on a forum, lol). I feel very torn because I do feel loyalty to them as my children's grandparents and husband's parents. So, I don't want to make them look bad. At the same time, I find their treatment of this man offensive both as a person of color and just as a decent person in general.