Anniversary Acknowledgement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sheesh. This guy's wife doesn't even "let" him hug her when he offers. I really can't understand why everyone is jumping on him. She sounds verbally abusive, withholding, and cold. I don't care if he sucks as an earner. Whatever happend to for richer or for poorer? Nobody is promised financial success forever. So he took some risks and she has to work. Big whoop. I have to work, most of us have to work. That's no excuse to be verbally abusive and to withhold even the most basic of physical contact, a hug.

I think this is where we have to acknowledge that we don't know the whole picture, only the portion of it that OP wants to present. If he's been working his ass off the past several years rebuilding his business with good, logical reason to believe he was just about back from the brink, only to face unexpected set-backs, that would be one thing. On the other hand, if this was a business that clearly was not going to be viable again and OP's just been engaging Peter Pan fantasies rather than getting a job, that's a different story. You could come up with different scenarios for just about every aspect of OP's story that favor either him or the wife, and we don't know which are true. All we know that is this is the version OP has chosen to share, which means it's probably the version that spins things as sympathetically as possible toward OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sheesh. This guy's wife doesn't even "let" him hug her when he offers. I really can't understand why everyone is jumping on him. She sounds verbally abusive, withholding, and cold. I don't care if he sucks as an earner. Whatever happend to for richer or for poorer? Nobody is promised financial success forever. So he took some risks and she has to work. Big whoop. I have to work, most of us have to work. That's no excuse to be verbally abusive and to withhold even the most basic of physical contact, a hug.

I think this is where we have to acknowledge that we don't know the whole picture, only the portion of it that OP wants to present. If he's been working his ass off the past several years rebuilding his business with good, logical reason to believe he was just about back from the brink, only to face unexpected set-backs, that would be one thing. On the other hand, if this was a business that clearly was not going to be viable again and OP's just been engaging Peter Pan fantasies rather than getting a job, that's a different story. You could come up with different scenarios for just about every aspect of OP's story that favor either him or the wife, and we don't know which are true. All we know that is this is the version OP has chosen to share, which means it's probably the version that spins things as sympathetically as possible toward OP.

This is true of pretty much every post about a relationship.

When I read them, I try to think about it like this. The OP is upset because he perceives the situation to be as described. Maybe he's glossing over things. Maybe he's favoring himself. Either way, his portrayal of what he believes the situation to be is relevant to his state of mind. If his feeling is that she is unfair, why does he feel that way? Is he misinterpreting her actions? Is he correctly interpreting her actions but refusing to admit that they are justified? Is he right that she is being unfair? It seems like he is ascribing a lot of motivation to a woman who does not communicate well with him. It's possible that even he doesn't know how she actually feels. Counseling would be good, for them both, but it sounds like the OP already decided that his wife wouldn't be into that and discarded it as an idea.

[Anonymous]

Like most two-sided stories, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I feel for the OP because it sounds like he has some very legitimate gripes and it definitely sounds like the wife contributes her fair share to the unhealthy dynamic he describes--no intimacy in 5 years, sharp-tongued condescension--can both wear a person down.

Man here (FWIW, just for context purposes) - one thing that stuck out to me was OP's statement "She has a right to be pissed, but you either believe in your partner or you don't." The first half strikes me as an (cursory) acknowledgement of her "right to be pissed" but definitely doesn't seem very empathetic. In other words, it doesn't sound like OP has made much of an effort to really digest what she's feeling and put himself in her shoes. The latter part of the statement seems problematic because it's so black-and-white--"you either believe in your partner or you don't." It's entirely possible that she believes in OP as a husband, "good person", father etc., but doesn't necessarily believe in him as a business owner at this point. When co-mingled finances are involved, she has the right to that opinion--albeit it sounds like she expresses it in a tough way.

The last statement reminds of Robert Griffin III ("RG3" QB of the Redskins) when he talks about "haters" and "doubters" who don't believe in him. RG3 has said all the right things throughout his career, but his results on the field have been mixed. Now, heading into Year 4, people want him to put up or shut up. He uses the same "you're either with me or against me" logic, and categorizes anyone who questions his abilities as a doubter or hater. People want this kid to succeed, and if he doesn't that doesn't make him a bad person, but Redskins fans aren't going to wait around indefinitely based on his spoken word or potential.

My point is, it sounds like OP has attached a whole lot of time, money, and energy towards his business--with mixed results. His wife is, in part, reacting to this, but OP takes it as a personal slight ("she doesn't believe in me") even though the results impact his wife too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sheesh. This guy's wife doesn't even "let" him hug her when he offers. I really can't understand why everyone is jumping on him. She sounds verbally abusive, withholding, and cold. I don't care if he sucks as an earner. Whatever happend to for richer or for poorer? Nobody is promised financial success forever. So he took some risks and she has to work. Big whoop. I have to work, most of us have to work. That's no excuse to be verbally abusive and to withhold even the most basic of physical contact, a hug.

I think this is where we have to acknowledge that we don't know the whole picture, only the portion of it that OP wants to present. If he's been working his ass off the past several years rebuilding his business with good, logical reason to believe he was just about back from the brink, only to face unexpected set-backs, that would be one thing. On the other hand, if this was a business that clearly was not going to be viable again and OP's just been engaging Peter Pan fantasies rather than getting a job, that's a different story. You could come up with different scenarios for just about every aspect of OP's story that favor either him or the wife, and we don't know which are true. All we know that is this is the version OP has chosen to share, which means it's probably the version that spins things as sympathetically as possible toward OP.

This is true of pretty much every post about a relationship.

When I read them, I try to think about it like this. The OP is upset because he perceives the situation to be as described. Maybe he's glossing over things. Maybe he's favoring himself. Either way, his portrayal of what he believes the situation to be is relevant to his state of mind. If his feeling is that she is unfair, why does he feel that way? Is he misinterpreting her actions? Is he correctly interpreting her actions but refusing to admit that they are justified? Is he right that she is being unfair? It seems like he is ascribing a lot of motivation to a woman who does not communicate well with him. It's possible that even he doesn't know how she actually feels. Counseling would be good, for them both, but it sounds like the OP already decided that his wife wouldn't be into that and discarded it as an idea.

PP you're responding to here, and for the most part I agree with your approach. That's completely different, though, from jumping to the conclusion that this wife is verbally abusive, unreasonable or betraying a marriage vow as the poster I responded to stated, based solely on what OP has provided here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like most two-sided stories, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I feel for the OP because it sounds like he has some very legitimate gripes and it definitely sounds like the wife contributes her fair share to the unhealthy dynamic he describes--no intimacy in 5 years, sharp-tongued condescension--can both wear a person down.

Man here (FWIW, just for context purposes) - one thing that stuck out to me was OP's statement "She has a right to be pissed, but you either believe in your partner or you don't." The first half strikes me as an (cursory) acknowledgement of her "right to be pissed" but definitely doesn't seem very empathetic. In other words, it doesn't sound like OP has made much of an effort to really digest what she's feeling and put himself in her shoes. The latter part of the statement seems problematic because it's so black-and-white--"you either believe in your partner or you don't." It's entirely possible that she believes in OP as a husband, "good person", father etc., but doesn't necessarily believe in him as a business owner at this point. When co-mingled finances are involved, she has the right to that opinion--albeit it sounds like she expresses it in a tough way.

The last statement reminds of Robert Griffin III ("RG3" QB of the Redskins) when he talks about "haters" and "doubters" who don't believe in him. RG3 has said all the right things throughout his career, but his results on the field have been mixed. Now, heading into Year 4, people want him to put up or shut up. He uses the same "you're either with me or against me" logic, and categorizes anyone who questions his abilities as a doubter or hater. People want this kid to succeed, and if he doesn't that doesn't make him a bad person, but Redskins fans aren't going to wait around indefinitely based on his spoken word or potential.

My point is, it sounds like OP has attached a whole lot of time, money, and energy towards his business--with mixed results. His wife is, in part, reacting to this, but OP takes it as a personal slight ("she doesn't believe in me") even though the results impact his wife too.

I hope OP sees this comparison, because I think it's spot-on.

[Anonymous]

So you basically don't talk to each other or have sex? Why don't you try talking to her first?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sheesh. This guy's wife doesn't even "let" him hug her when he offers. I really can't understand why everyone is jumping on him. She sounds verbally abusive, withholding, and cold. I don't care if he sucks as an earner. Whatever happend to for richer or for poorer? Nobody is promised financial success forever. So he took some risks and she has to work. Big whoop. I have to work, most of us have to work. That's no excuse to be verbally abusive and to withhold even the most basic of physical contact, a hug.

I think this is where we have to acknowledge that we don't know the whole picture, only the portion of it that OP wants to present. If he's been working his ass off the past several years rebuilding his business with good, logical reason to believe he was just about back from the brink, only to face unexpected set-backs, that would be one thing. On the other hand, if this was a business that clearly was not going to be viable again and OP's just been engaging Peter Pan fantasies rather than getting a job, that's a different story. You could come up with different scenarios for just about every aspect of OP's story that favor either him or the wife, and we don't know which are true. All we know that is this is the version OP has chosen to share, which means it's probably the version that spins things as sympathetically as possible toward OP.

This is true of pretty much every post about a relationship.

When I read them, I try to think about it like this. The OP is upset because he perceives the situation to be as described. Maybe he's glossing over things. Maybe he's favoring himself. Either way, his portrayal of what he believes the situation to be is relevant to his state of mind. If his feeling is that she is unfair, why does he feel that way? Is he misinterpreting her actions? Is he correctly interpreting her actions but refusing to admit that they are justified? Is he right that she is being unfair? It seems like he is ascribing a lot of motivation to a woman who does not communicate well with him. It's possible that even he doesn't know how she actually feels. Counseling would be good, for them both, but it sounds like the OP already decided that his wife wouldn't be into that and discarded it as an idea.

PP you're responding to here, and for the most part I agree with your approach. That's completely different, though, from jumping to the conclusion that this wife is verbally abusive, unreasonable or betraying a marriage vow as the poster I responded to stated, based solely on what OP has provided here.

PP you're responding to. I completely agree, and would say that clearly, that other PP is responding to something from his or her own life that makes them see the situation this way and jump to those conclusions. Just like the OP

[Anonymous]

Have you tried writing to her?

I would sit down with a notebook and write out what you want to happen (counseling, discovering whether your marriage can be good and trusting again).

Then go through your letter and remove everything that blames her or justifies your behavior. Everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, at this point, you guys are in an untenable situation. It sounds like she is trying on some levels - working super hard while you're trying to rebuild, even though she doesn't want to, wishing you a happy anniversary even though it doesn't sound like you are happily married. It also seems like those are maybe not the ways you'd like her to try.

Your hurt feelings and resentments are completely legit. So are hers. The reality is that you will both have to face hard truths about your contributions to the current state of affairs. You will both have to decide if you are invested in repairing your marriage. That's not something that you can do on your own.

Thank you for taking the time to author a thoughtful response. I have suggested counseling therapy but she is very stoic. I think we will need that type of forum where we can have hard, yet constructive, and frank conversations. It is not in her ways to be communicative. And this is not about putting it on her. We have good times and now we have had bad. While not making light of it, I try to explain that perhaps the hard times will give us gratitude. DW was SAHM and living very well. And frankly I benefited from her SAHM because it allowed me to focus my efforts elsewhere. But, SAHM evolved into a mindset that she would never work again which did not sit well with me. Part of her resentment is that she lost a very nice lifestyle. Who wouldn't want to stay home with the kids in school all day and go shopping with their mother. Part of my resentment is that she began to have unrealistic expectations regarding how folks live; I worked hard to secure us a lifestyle. So, I should have more empathy but why is it ok for me to shoulder the full burden, and you stay home and its a problem when I need you step up and help us out. And if I am successful she will be the first one with her hand out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your wife wished you a Happy Anniversary, and you basically blew her off. She's supposed to want to sex with you later anyway? How does that work?

Its definitely a chicken/egg dynamic. But being married to a low drive spouse- its tough to make an effort every day and do the little things with very little reciprocity.

That being said- OP's timing sucked. He should have said Happy Anniversary back and talked about counseling another time. Total dick move.

I didn't talk about counseling. I didn't say much at all. Just quietly acknowledged it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, at this point, you guys are in an untenable situation. It sounds like she is trying on some levels - working super hard while you're trying to rebuild, even though she doesn't want to, wishing you a happy anniversary even though it doesn't sound like you are happily married. It also seems like those are maybe not the ways you'd like her to try.

Your hurt feelings and resentments are completely legit. So are hers. The reality is that you will both have to face hard truths about your contributions to the current state of affairs. You will both have to decide if you are invested in repairing your marriage. That's not something that you can do on your own.

Thank you for taking the time to author a thoughtful response. I have suggested counseling therapy but she is very stoic. I think we will need that type of forum where we can have hard, yet constructive, and frank conversations. It is not in her ways to be communicative. And this is not about putting it on her. We have good times and now we have had bad. While not making light of it, I try to explain that perhaps the hard times will give us gratitude. DW was SAHM and living very well. And frankly I benefited from her SAHM because it allowed me to focus my efforts elsewhere. But, SAHM evolved into a mindset that she would never work again which did not sit well with me. Part of her resentment is that she lost a very nice lifestyle. Who wouldn't want to stay home with the kids in school all day and go shopping with their mother. Part of my resentment is that she began to have unrealistic expectations regarding how folks live; I worked hard to secure us a lifestyle. So, I should have more empathy but why is it ok for me to shoulder the full burden, and you stay home and its a problem when I need you step up and help us out. And if I am successful she will be the first one with her hand out.

It sounds like you really dislike her, so why don't you just divorce her? You'd both be better off free from a marriage that's making you both unhappy, and it would probably be better for kids too (because they are well aware of the state of things, no matter how well you think you're hiding it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your wife had to start somewhere. Why not go give her a hug and go out for a nice dinner or do something fun together? Also, if she's supporting the family, then you don't have a business, you have a hobby. Call it what it is.

You are right about her starting somewhere. And that is my regret - in that I didn't acknowledge that in kind. My wife does not let me hug her. It's a business with revenue and earnings - it is just not where it needs to be.

OP, you could mention this to your wife - "I'm really sorry that I did not acknowledge our anniversary in kind. I would like to make it up to you. What can I do for you?" If she's not into hugging, then she's not into hugging. Maybe she'd be willing to tell you something she IS into.

I usually am not overly sympathetic to people who cry "sexist marriage" and "alienation of affection" but 5 years is a very long time for one spouse to not even allow basic physical affection like a hug. Are you considering leaving the marriage at this time?

I told her earlier today that once I got a signed contract for one of the jobs I am working on that I would like to take us out for a nice meal, with or without the kids her call. I suspect when she sees the signed contract she will breath a little easier and I am grateful for that. I think the long term challenge will be how to we come back. I saw a lot about her personality when I was struggling that I really didn't like; in terms of the goodness in her heart. Very acerbic, very manipulative with money. Very belittling in front of our children. She definitely has a right to be pissed. But she also could have said I met you when you had no money - none. You were a millionaire by thirty and have done well by the family. So we will downsize, weather the storm and I know you are smart enough and tenacious to succeed. I didn't get a middle ground. I was told I was an idiot, a world class schmuck. And while I made all the money she told me that as it was legally half hers that I lost her money. So, when your partner that you met in your teens tells you what she is legally entitled to, it opens your eyes. So its sad but its a struggle to keep a sense of love alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, was your wife a SAHM who resents having to go back to work? Was she already working and resents being the breadwinner?

She was SAHM and fully caught up in it. As things were going very well she planned on never working again. Shit hit the fan and after about 10 years of SAHM she had to go back to work. I think part of it is that at first she was embarrassed that she had to work as she was probably the first in her circle to have to go back (others had to as the recession wore on). Alot of SuperMoms and trust fund MILFs so it was not socially acceptable to her to have to go back to work. And while I can sympathize, her perceptions definitely got warped for awhile as we are not of that upbringing.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, it has clearly been a rough road for your whole family but your DW sounds incredibly selfish and entitled. I admire you for staying. Is there anything about her personality or character that you actually like? And what's with the no sex for 5 years thing?? How is that sustainable? Are either (both?) of you getting some on the side?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, it has clearly been a rough road for your whole family but your DW sounds incredibly selfish and entitled. I admire you for staying. Is there anything about her personality or character that you actually like? And what's with the no sex for 5 years thing?? How is that sustainable? Are either (both?) of you getting some on the side?

Wow, he's playing you well.