IL's and religious issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, DH has explicitly told me I'm not allowed to mention it. And if I say I won't see them, I'm being "overly sensitive".

If your husband tells you what you're not allowed to do, you have a way, way bigger problem than the remarks your in-laws make. Unless you're into the whole wifely submission thing, which is another kettle of fish and I don't wish to offend your religious ideals discussing that.

As a PP asked, this is literally the only thing he's ever said this about. He thinks I hate Catholics - I do not - and doesn't want me entering into a religious debate with his family. I would never do that, but sometimes he treats me like I'm stupid and don't know how to act in polite company.

So on second though, maybe he does secretly agree with them.

OP, you say this topic is "literally the only thing he's ever" told you to clam up about, but then you say what's in bold above. He might not have told you to keep quiet about other subjects but he sure doesn't sound as if he respects you as an adult with a brain and valid opinions, based on what you write above. That's the greater issue some PPs have been pointing out. The religion problem and his refusal to buffer you from his parents seem to be part of a larger issue of how he regards you and your choices and opinions.

How did he get the idea that you "hate Catholics" if you've never done anything to make him think that -- other than not convert to Catholicism? Does he have other assumptions about you that aren't on the mark?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As a PP asked, this is literally the only thing he's ever said this about. He thinks I hate Catholics - I do not - and doesn't want me entering into a religious debate with his family. I would never do that, but sometimes he treats me like I'm stupid and don't know how to act in polite company.

So on second though, maybe he does secretly agree with them.

OP, you say this topic is "literally the only thing he's ever" told you to clam up about, but then you say what's in bold above. He might not have told you to keep quiet about other subjects but he sure doesn't sound as if he respects you as an adult with a brain and valid opinions, based on what you write above. That's the greater issue some PPs have been pointing out. The religion problem and his refusal to buffer you from his parents seem to be part of a larger issue of how he regards you and your choices and opinions.

How did he get the idea that you "hate Catholics" if you've never done anything to make him think that -- other than not convert to Catholicism? Does he have other assumptions about you that aren't on the mark?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. By sometimes I meant he thinks I'm going to start a theological debate with his parents. It's not an overreaching problem in our marriage.

He thinks I hate Catholics because I won't attend mass with him, even though I've calmly explained my rationale for it. That's a whole other discussion and one I don't want to get into here.

[Anonymous]

So, it sounds like your DH is also a little upset with you for not wanting to be Catholic. This might be the root of the problem.

I think you need to give a little and then expect them to give a little, too. If you're giving off a "I won't go to mass" and "I don't agree with Catholicism" vibe, then they probably feel a bit defensive. You fell in love with your DH, right? He's a good person, right? So, it can't be all horrible.

Even if DH doesn't actively believe in it anymore, it probably was a major formative thing for him, and you should respect that. It's been a part of his life for longer than you have, and you can't just expect it to go away overnight. Respecting it a little might help. Even if he is ready to give it up, he might not want to feel forced to give it up or feel like you are ragging on his upbringing and religion.

Would it hurt you to attend a mass once in a while? Wouldn't it be okay if your kids when to a mass with their grandparents when they are visiting? It sounds like you are Christian, and the teachings aren't THAT different that it would really make a huge difference if your kids went to one or two masses in their lives. I'm not saying you should change your beliefs or encourage anyone to be Catholic but just that it would go a long way if you attempted to understand where they are coming from. They probably feel like you are expecting them to give, give, give and not attempting to give a little in return.

[Anonymous]

OP I am an ex Catholic and no fan of Catholicism. My kids are not baptized. But I ask you, what *IF* you just went ahead and allowed them to be baptized? It would shut up your in-laws.

What if you let the in laws take the kids to Mass? Who cares? You can also let them go to other religious worship services. Give them a taste of everything that is out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a PP asked, this is literally the only thing he's ever said this about. He thinks I hate Catholics - I do not - and doesn't want me entering into a religious debate with his family. I would never do that, but sometimes he treats me like I'm stupid and don't know how to act in polite company.

So on second though, maybe he does secretly agree with them.

OP, you say this topic is "literally the only thing he's ever" told you to clam up about, but then you say what's in bold above. He might not have told you to keep quiet about other subjects but he sure doesn't sound as if he respects you as an adult with a brain and valid opinions, based on what you write above. That's the greater issue some PPs have been pointing out. The religion problem and his refusal to buffer you from his parents seem to be part of a larger issue of how he regards you and your choices and opinions.

How did he get the idea that you "hate Catholics" if you've never done anything to make him think that -- other than not convert to Catholicism? Does he have other assumptions about you that aren't on the mark?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. By sometimes I meant he thinks I'm going to start a theological debate with his parents. It's not an overreaching problem in our marriage.

He thinks I hate Catholics because I won't attend mass with him, even though I've calmly explained my rationale for it. That's a whole other discussion and one I don't want to get into here.

PP with the Catholic husband & ILs from page 1 - I totally get what OP is talking about. A simple difference in opinion, or questioning whether Catholicism should be the default, is interpreted as being anti-Catholic. There's a certain story line that conservative Catholics tell themselves to explain why the church isn't perceived more favorably; being persecuted defined Christ's story, so they think of it as a permanent, defining feature of the Church's story, regardless of how successful or how powerful it becomes. It is difficult to challenge that narrative because its so closely tied with the theological tenants of the faith itself, so it provokes a very defensive response.

Anyway, OP I repeat that you should just speak directly and honestly with your ILs. Let it bug your husband, because if you are honest, direct, and compassionate with them - then it's the right thing to do. If your ILs insist on this hell nonsense, tell them that they're putting you in a difficult situation, interfering in their adult child's marriage, and most alarmingly, promoting heresy - all of which have serious consequences that you don't want for them, so implore them to consult with their priest before continuing down this path. Okay, well maybe hold onto that last point, as no one responds well to being called a heretic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, it sounds like your DH is also a little upset with you for not wanting to be Catholic. This might be the root of the problem.

I think you need to give a little and then expect them to give a little, too. If you're giving off a "I won't go to mass" and "I don't agree with Catholicism" vibe, then they probably feel a bit defensive. You fell in love with your DH, right? He's a good person, right? So, it can't be all horrible.

Even if DH doesn't actively believe in it anymore, it probably was a major formative thing for him, and you should respect that. It's been a part of his life for longer than you have, and you can't just expect it to go away overnight. Respecting it a little might help. Even if he is ready to give it up, he might not want to feel forced to give it up or feel like you are ragging on his upbringing and religion.

Would it hurt you to attend a mass once in a while? Wouldn't it be okay if your kids when to a mass with their grandparents when they are visiting? It sounds like you are Christian, and the teachings aren't THAT different that it would really make a huge difference if your kids went to one or two masses in their lives. I'm not saying you should change your beliefs or encourage anyone to be Catholic but just that it would go a long way if you attempted to understand where they are coming from. They probably feel like you are expecting them to give, give, give and not attempting to give a little in return.

This doesn't make sense. What is she expecting them to give give give? She baptised her children according to her church, she and her husband and children attend the church of their choice. They're expecting her to have her child do first communion, that's not "giving a little," that's joining a different church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This isn't an in law problem, this is a husband problem.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I am an ex Catholic and no fan of Catholicism. My kids are not baptized. But I ask you, what *IF* you just went ahead and allowed them to be baptized? It would shut up your in-laws.

What if you let the in laws take the kids to Mass? Who cares? You can also let them go to other religious worship services. Give them a taste of everything that is out there.

Our children were each baptized at 5 weeks old. It has not shut up our inlaws. Nothing will shut them up but religious education, mass every week, first communion, CCD, confirmation, etc.

To answer another PP, no, I don't plan on going to mass. That was the agreement when we got married, and I plan on sticking to it. I have my reasons. I don't really care if the kids go every so often - and they have - but again, that's not what the IL's want. They want Catholic grandchildren.

And the PP that says this is totally correct:
PP with the Catholic husband & ILs from page 1 - I totally get what OP is talking about. A simple difference in opinion, or questioning whether Catholicism should be the default, is interpreted as being anti-Catholic.

This is 100% true and the source of DH's "you hate Catholics" comments. I can't question ANYTHING the Catholic Church does with that accusation - and mind you, I question quite a bit of what my own church does. It's kind of expected among most Christians I know, so it's a little bit of a culture shock to marry a Catholic and find out you aren't allowed to question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anyway, OP I repeat that you should just speak directly and honestly with your ILs. Let it bug your husband, because if you are honest, direct, and compassionate with them - then it's the right thing to do. If your ILs insist on this hell nonsense, tell them that they're putting you in a difficult situation, interfering in their adult child's marriage, and most alarmingly, promoting heresy - all of which have serious consequences that you don't want for them, so implore them to consult with their priest before continuing down this path. Okay, well maybe hold onto that last point, as no one responds well to being called a heretic.

Sorry, I missed this before. I think that's really all I can do. We don't see them that often and I don't want our visits to be full of this for the next however many years.

Funnily enough, they've have thrown the word heretic around, although not to my face. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a PP asked, this is literally the only thing he's ever said this about. He thinks I hate Catholics - I do not - and doesn't want me entering into a religious debate with his family. I would never do that, but sometimes he treats me like I'm stupid and don't know how to act in polite company.

So on second though, maybe he does secretly agree with them.

OP, you say this topic is "literally the only thing he's ever" told you to clam up about, but then you say what's in bold above. He might not have told you to keep quiet about other subjects but he sure doesn't sound as if he respects you as an adult with a brain and valid opinions, based on what you write above. That's the greater issue some PPs have been pointing out. The religion problem and his refusal to buffer you from his parents seem to be part of a larger issue of how he regards you and your choices and opinions.

How did he get the idea that you "hate Catholics" if you've never done anything to make him think that -- other than not convert to Catholicism? Does he have other assumptions about you that aren't on the mark?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. By sometimes I meant he thinks I'm going to start a theological debate with his parents. It's not an overreaching problem in our marriage.

He thinks I hate Catholics because I won't attend mass with him, even though I've calmly explained my rationale for it. That's a whole other discussion and one I don't want to get into here.

PP with the Catholic husband & ILs from page 1 - I totally get what OP is talking about. A simple difference in opinion, or questioning whether Catholicism should be the default, is interpreted as being anti-Catholic. There's a certain story line that conservative Catholics tell themselves to explain why the church isn't perceived more favorably; being persecuted defined Christ's story, so they think of it as a permanent, defining feature of the Church's story, regardless of how successful or how powerful it becomes. It is difficult to challenge that narrative because its so closely tied with the theological tenants of the faith itself, so it provokes a very defensive response.

Anyway, OP I repeat that you should just speak directly and honestly with your ILs. Let it bug your husband, because if you are honest, direct, and compassionate with them - then it's the right thing to do. If your ILs insist on this hell nonsense, tell them that they're putting you in a difficult situation, interfering in their adult child's marriage, and most alarmingly, promoting heresy - all of which have serious consequences that you don't want for them, so implore them to consult with their priest before continuing down this path. Okay, well maybe hold onto that last point, as no one responds well to being called a heretic.

Totally agree with this. I was raised by very Catholic parents who have recently started embracing this new persecution complex to the point they think the worldwide sex abuse scandal is blown out of proportion. I don't know where they get it from-- their local priests, Catholic discussion groups, or Bill O'Reilly. I can't even mention the sex abuse issue without them getting defensive on behalf of the Catholic church. "We never had a problem with a priest! I was an alter boy and no one ever abused me! I bet a lot of these accusations are false!" Never mind that the Catholic Church is a billion or trillion dollar organization with a copious amount of expensive property and sway over policy in many countries-- it's still a poor victim of the secular world. Sounds to me like a narrative promoted from the pulpit to the faithful. When I listen to how my parents talk it sounds like they're reading from talking points.

[Anonymous]

PP here. I've heard Catholics go as far as saying what is going on now with the Catholic Church was prophesied by the Virgin Mary when she appeared to the children at Fatima:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_F%C3%A1tima

Therefore, everything wrong with the Catholic Church is more or less elevated to the prophesy level-- all already known and understood as part of a grand plan and must happen, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I am an ex Catholic and no fan of Catholicism. My kids are not baptized. But I ask you, what *IF* you just went ahead and allowed them to be baptized? It would shut up your in-laws.

What if you let the in laws take the kids to Mass? Who cares? You can also let them go to other religious worship services. Give them a taste of everything that is out there.

They were baptized. Their baptism is valid in the Catholic Church. In fact, the Catholic Church would not re-baptize them because "we believe in ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sin." There is no such thing as a re-baptism in the Catholic Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, DH has explicitly told me I'm not allowed to mention it. And if I say I won't see them, I'm being "overly sensitive".

Look up gaslighting and see if it pertains toy our DH in other ways too.

This.

And ditto the poster on this being a husband problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This isn't an in law problem, this is a husband problem.

OP, this is about your husband

[Anonymous]

OP, I've found that fundamentalist, or at least very religious people, have a favorite topic: religion. Your husband may be bombarded with this on a daily basis. He's obviously not going to cut mom and dad out of his life. He doesn't hate them. They may have been nice parents and decent people as far as he's concerned.

That said, do you know if your husband has weekly/daily conversations on his own with his parents, ie does he call them during lunch or while running errands? I ask because it sounds like he's not necessarily very close to them, nor would he choose them over you, but he's still under their very powerful religious thumb. He's intimidated by them. Yes, you do have a husband problem here, but try to see him in the light of someone who was raised in a strict religious household, or someone raised in a controlling cult. It takes years, decades, to break away or to just learn to think independently. Do you know if they're calling/emailing/texting him about the need for his kids to be true Catholics and for him and his heretic wife to get with the program already-- or else their kids are going to head down a horrible path? My own uber-Catholic mother tries to remind me outside of my own DH's presence about scheduling a baptism already for the grandkids and "giving them the gifts" of Catholicism and the love of Jesus. She gets offensive or at least very passive aggressive at times, saying my kids will end up being victims of all kinds of things and how people without a strong religious background end up joining cults because they have nothing to begin with.

Again, you may not know what is really going on. They see him as their poor good son being led astray but this pushy woman who rejects Catholicism. And with rejecting Catholicism, you're rejecting THEM and what they stand for. Overly religious people have their identities wrapped up in their religion. Would be funny to ask them what they consider themselves first and foremost: Americans, Irish/German/Spanish/whatever-Americans, Democrats, Republicans, or Catholics. I know my parents would say Catholic first if push came to shove.

Your husband can try all he wants to push you around verbally. He does it because he can't push them around. They've got a hold on him and he's frustrated. It's their last stand with their boy. He left, he went off to school, found work and independence and got married. He's out of their clutches, and now, they have one final thing to influence him on and that's religion. You never know, they may have suggested that they'd cut him out of their will if he doesn't get with the Catholic program and give his kids the gift of the One True Church. They sound desperate enough.