Partner and I can't agree on a surname after marriage and now I'm wondering if marrying him is even worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His reaction, although dramatic is mostly reasonable. Most women still take their husband's name and our society operates during the assumption that families will go by the father's name. This isn't different from women taking offense at men's suggestion to skip the ring. You're entitled to your name but this issue will likely be a tedious uphill battle for you as most men won't be happy with their wives keeping their names.

I got married 25 years ago and my DH’s reaction to my saying I wanted to keep my name was “ok.” A lot of men really do not think it was a big deal. OP, your fiance sounds difficult

[Anonymous]

DCUM is overly liberal on this topic compared with how people actually think day to day. Even a lot of left-leaning people may say out loud that it is no big deal, but internally they still notice and make assumptions.

Fair or not, when a married woman has a different last name from her husband or kids, people may quietly wonder: is she divorced, is this a blended family, is there a professional reason, is she making a political point, is she difficult, or is there some narcissistic reason she could not just take the shared family name? They may never say that out loud, but people absolutely make those judgments internally.

That is why I think the Pew data matters more than hand-picked examples. Even among liberal Democratic married women, only 25% kept their last name. So even in liberal circles, keeping your birth name is still the minority choice.

And if we are talking about liberal women who fully took their husband’s name, not hyphenated or combined, there are still examples: Abigail Davis became Abigail Spanberger, Nicolle Devenish became Nicolle Wallace, Joy-Ann Lomena became Joy Reid, and Mary Sattler became Mary Peltola. It is still very normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really do not think taking your husband's last name needs to be treated like some outdated or anti-woman thing.

The data still shows it is completely normal. Pew found that 79% of women in opposite-sex marriages took their husband's last name, while only 14% kept their own and 5% hyphenated. Even education does not change the overall picture as much as people assume. Among women with postgraduate degrees, only 26% kept their original last name, meaning most still either took their husband's name or combined names.

And this is not just a conservative or old-fashioned thing. Plenty of prominent liberal, educated, accomplished American women have taken or used their husband's last name publicly, including Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Jill Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Gwen Walz, and Gretchen Whitmer. In younger/current culture, you also see examples like Hailey Bieber and Chrissy Teigen.

Obviously, if someone has a strong personal, professional, cultural, or family reason not to change it, that is completely fine. But for most people, sharing one family name is simple, practical, and meaningful. It does not erase anyone's independence, education, politics, or accomplishments. For many families, it is just easier and cleaner to take the name and move on.

No amount of "most women take their husband's name" changes the fact that the practice is sexist and implies the superiority of male identity. We would have just as many men taking their wives' last name if the practice was truly neutral.

[Anonymous]

It’s your name. Don’t change if you don’t want to. Agree with person who said practice verbal communication skills you’ll need so much of in marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him you’re keeping your own name and the kids that come out of your body will also have your name. (This is very normal these days.) He’s welcome to join if he wants consistency.

I already told him that and he didn't like it. He found the proposal offensive.

Red flag. Not someone I would marry.

I kept my name and don't see this a red flag on his part, unless you also consider it a red flag on OP's.

It's one thing for each partner to keep their birth names, it's another for one partner to demand that they use their ln for hypothetical kids or make up a new name. That's an ultimatum, not really a discussion. What would you say if the roles were reversed?

I think the red flag isn't so much people's stances as it is how they communicate. In the grand scheme of partner disagreements, this one really isn't that big of a deal. But how you handle disagreement matters.

This!!

And the fact that op doesn't know his views on gender.

There's no benefit of leaving that as a surprise for after you walk down the aisle. Have ALL the discussions now, or at least as many as you can think of. If you go forward, I highly recommend premarital counseling.

Actually I recommend pre marital counseling to everyone, even the most communicative couples. It was really great to have facilitated conversations and full a box of problem solving tools to use because life gets tricky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really do not think taking your husband's last name needs to be treated like some outdated or anti-woman thing.

The data still shows it is completely normal. Pew found that 79% of women in opposite-sex marriages took their husband's last name, while only 14% kept their own and 5% hyphenated. Even education does not change the overall picture as much as people assume. Among women with postgraduate degrees, only 26% kept their original last name, meaning most still either took their husband's name or combined names.

And this is not just a conservative or old-fashioned thing. Plenty of prominent liberal, educated, accomplished American women have taken or used their husband's last name publicly, including Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Jill Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Gwen Walz, and Gretchen Whitmer. In younger/current culture, you also see examples like Hailey Bieber and Chrissy Teigen.

Obviously, if someone has a strong personal, professional, cultural, or family reason not to change it, that is completely fine. But for most people, sharing one family name is simple, practical, and meaningful. It does not erase anyone's independence, education, politics, or accomplishments. For many families, it is just easier and cleaner to take the name and move on.

No amount of "most women take their husband's name" changes the fact that the practice is sexist and implies the superiority of male identity. We would have just as many men taking their wives' last name if the practice was truly neutral.

A practice can come from tradition without every woman who chooses it today being oppressed or endorsing male superiority. Most women are not sitting there thinking, "my husband’s identity is superior to mine." They are thinking, "we are forming one family unit, this is the normal convention, and it is easier for our household and children."

Also, the fact that fewer men take women’s names does not automatically make every woman’s choice sexist. It just means the convention runs one direction. Lots of social conventions are asymmetrical without every person participating in them being morally wrong.

Women are adults. If a woman wants to keep her name, fine. If she wants to take her husband’s name, also fine. But declaring the majority choice of married women "sexist" is not feminist. It is just judging women for making a traditional choice you personally dislike.

[Anonymous]

The hyphens are an abomination. Please don't do it.

[Anonymous]

I’d avoid hyphens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him you’re keeping your own name and the kids that come out of your body will also have your name. (This is very normal these days.) He’s welcome to join if he wants consistency.

I already told him that and he didn't like it. He found the proposal offensive.

Red flag. Not someone I would marry.

I kept my name and don't see this a red flag on his part, unless you also consider it a red flag on OP's.

It's one thing for each partner to keep their birth names, it's another for one partner to demand that they use their ln for hypothetical kids or make up a new name. That's an ultimatum, not really a discussion. What would you say if the roles were reversed?

I think the red flag isn't so much people's stances as it is how they communicate. In the grand scheme of partner disagreements, this one really isn't that big of a deal. But how you handle disagreement matters.

But, OP could have handled it better. You can slow roll your positions. It's one thing to announce you want to keep your name and in the next breath announce that you will not be giving your future kids his name either. It would be hard for anyone to not be offended, especially when you're talking about identity. I didn't feel strongly that my kids have my name, so that wasn't an issue for me. But, I might have put some time between the two announcements, especially if he needed a minute. Now he's much less likely to come around.

Nobody wants an ultimatum. People want a lot of "oohs" and "ahs" when you're delivering news that might disappoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is overly liberal on this topic compared with how people actually think day to day. Even a lot of left-leaning people may say out loud that it is no big deal, but internally they still notice and make assumptions.

Fair or not, when a married woman has a different last name from her husband or kids, people may quietly wonder: is she divorced, is this a blended family, is there a professional reason, is she making a political point, is she difficult, or is there some narcissistic reason she could not just take the shared family name? They may never say that out loud, but people absolutely make those judgments internally.

That is why I think the Pew data matters more than hand-picked examples. Even among liberal Democratic married women, only 25% kept their last name. So even in liberal circles, keeping your birth name is still the minority choice.

And if we are talking about liberal women who fully took their husband’s name, not hyphenated or combined, there are still examples: Abigail Davis became Abigail Spanberger, Nicolle Devenish became Nicolle Wallace, Joy-Ann Lomena became Joy Reid, and Mary Sattler became Mary Peltola. It is still very normal.

Not everyone is insecure enough to make choices about their personal life based on what other people will assume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was surprised by the conversation, his first reaction may not have been the best reaction. Don’t blow this out of proportion.

Double barrel names aren’t common outside of certain cultures and they can be a burden.

This is a good chance to use communication skills that will serve you both well in marriage. Good luck!

Burden how?

Bubbling in all those letters on the SAT, not being able to complete it on written forms (running out of boxes), which can lead to inconsistency across documents, what to do when they themselves get married...
No dog in this fight, but I knew I didnt want to hyphenate for this reason.
Almost all of the moms in my neighborhood kept their names, and most of the kids have dad's last name (one hyphenates but they have short names)

[Anonymous]

A woman who really loves the man she wants to marry is certainly not going to crowd source an issue like this.

OP, the only problem you need to justify your decision to are yourself and your partner.

Enjoy your power trip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really do not think taking your husband's last name needs to be treated like some outdated or anti-woman thing.

The data still shows it is completely normal. Pew found that 79% of women in opposite-sex marriages took their husband's last name, while only 14% kept their own and 5% hyphenated. Even education does not change the overall picture as much as people assume. Among women with postgraduate degrees, only 26% kept their original last name, meaning most still either took their husband's name or combined names.

And this is not just a conservative or old-fashioned thing. Plenty of prominent liberal, educated, accomplished American women have taken or used their husband's last name publicly, including Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Jill Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Gwen Walz, and Gretchen Whitmer. In younger/current culture, you also see examples like Hailey Bieber and Chrissy Teigen.

Obviously, if someone has a strong personal, professional, cultural, or family reason not to change it, that is completely fine. But for most people, sharing one family name is simple, practical, and meaningful. It does not erase anyone's independence, education, politics, or accomplishments. For many families, it is just easier and cleaner to take the name and move on.

No amount of "most women take their husband's name" changes the fact that the practice is sexist and implies the superiority of male identity. We would have just as many men taking their wives' last name if the practice was truly neutral.

A practice can come from tradition without every woman who chooses it today being oppressed or endorsing male superiority. Most women are not sitting there thinking, "my husband’s identity is superior to mine." They are thinking, "we are forming one family unit, this is the normal convention, and it is easier for our household and children."

Also, the fact that fewer men take women’s names does not automatically make every woman’s choice sexist. It just means the convention runs one direction. Lots of social conventions are asymmetrical without every person participating in them being morally wrong.

Women are adults. If a woman wants to keep her name, fine. If she wants to take her husband’s name, also fine. But declaring the majority choice of married women "sexist" is not feminist. It is just judging women for making a traditional choice you personally dislike.

Sorry, no. The practice is sexist. Agree with first poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is overly liberal on this topic compared with how people actually think day to day. Even a lot of left-leaning people may say out loud that it is no big deal, but internally they still notice and make assumptions.

Fair or not, when a married woman has a different last name from her husband or kids, people may quietly wonder: is she divorced, is this a blended family, is there a professional reason, is she making a political point, is she difficult, or is there some narcissistic reason she could not just take the shared family name? They may never say that out loud, but people absolutely make those judgments internally.

That is why I think the Pew data matters more than hand-picked examples. Even among liberal Democratic married women, only 25% kept their last name. So even in liberal circles, keeping your birth name is still the minority choice.

And if we are talking about liberal women who fully took their husband’s name, not hyphenated or combined, there are still examples: Abigail Davis became Abigail Spanberger, Nicolle Devenish became Nicolle Wallace, Joy-Ann Lomena became Joy Reid, and Mary Sattler became Mary Peltola. It is still very normal.

It takes a special kind of narcissist to insist that only his name is acceptable as a family name. If having the same name for everyone is the goal, take your wife's name.

There is nothing wrong with taking your husband's name if you wish, and there certainly isn't anything wrong with keeping your name either. Secure, emotionally intelligent, highly evolved men know this. Men liek you, not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really do not think taking your husband's last name needs to be treated like some outdated or anti-woman thing.

The data still shows it is completely normal. Pew found that 79% of women in opposite-sex marriages took their husband's last name, while only 14% kept their own and 5% hyphenated. Even education does not change the overall picture as much as people assume. Among women with postgraduate degrees, only 26% kept their original last name, meaning most still either took their husband's name or combined names.

And this is not just a conservative or old-fashioned thing. Plenty of prominent liberal, educated, accomplished American women have taken or used their husband's last name publicly, including Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Jill Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Gwen Walz, and Gretchen Whitmer. In younger/current culture, you also see examples like Hailey Bieber and Chrissy Teigen.

Obviously, if someone has a strong personal, professional, cultural, or family reason not to change it, that is completely fine. But for most people, sharing one family name is simple, practical, and meaningful. It does not erase anyone's independence, education, politics, or accomplishments. For many families, it is just easier and cleaner to take the name and move on.

No amount of "most women take their husband's name" changes the fact that the practice is sexist and implies the superiority of male identity. We would have just as many men taking their wives' last name if the practice was truly neutral.

A practice can come from tradition without every woman who chooses it today being oppressed or endorsing male superiority. Most women are not sitting there thinking, "my husband’s identity is superior to mine." They are thinking, "we are forming one family unit, this is the normal convention, and it is easier for our household and children."

Also, the fact that fewer men take women’s names does not automatically make every woman’s choice sexist. It just means the convention runs one direction. Lots of social conventions are asymmetrical without every person participating in them being morally wrong.

Women are adults. If a woman wants to keep her name, fine. If she wants to take her husband’s name, also fine. But declaring the majority choice of married women "sexist" is not feminist. It is just judging women for making a traditional choice you personally dislike.

How is it easier.

What problem does this solve? Tell us the problem this solves.