Why no business major at (most of) the Ivies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My SLAC didn't/doesn't offer it, either . . . I don't think that many do. It's not part of a classic curriculum that focuses on theory and critical thinking skills, versus practical and technical skills (that most graduates from elite schools will pick up on the job).

Companies now a days want people who can hit the ground running, and that often means already having the practical/technical skills on the job. That's why internships are so important.

FWIW, I'm not arguing that elite schools should not (or should) offer a business major. I was just answering OP's question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No business major offered at Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Columbia. Cornell the "land grant Ivy" is an exception, and even Penn's Wharton School grants the BS in economics presumably because they don't want to embarrass their graduates with a lowly business degree. Why don't most of the Ivies offer a business major?

Business is vocational. Like a trade.

Then I guess Harvard and the like graduate school of BUSINESS must be trade schools.

Yes, they are. I'm not sure why people can't understand that the approach to education as a means to an end (getting a high paying job) is not what instiutitons of higher education were meant for traditionally. Thinking of a college education this way is low brow. That might offend you, but it's true.

[Anonymous]

When I was a business major eons ago living in CA, no UC schools had a degree in "business". It was just econ. So, I ended up at a CSU. The program did include econ classes, but mostly it was practical classes like accounting, marketing, management, and even MIS.

Now, 30 years later, almost all the UCs have some kind of business degree program. These schools have listened to what business leaders are looking for in graduates.

[Anonymous]

MIT has ug business majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No business major offered at Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Columbia. Cornell the "land grant Ivy" is an exception, and even Penn's Wharton School grants the BS in economics presumably because they don't want to embarrass their graduates with a lowly business degree. Why don't most of the Ivies offer a business major?

Business is vocational. Like a trade.

Then I guess Harvard and the like graduate school of BUSINESS must be trade schools.

Yes, they are. I'm not sure why people can't understand that the approach to education as a means to an end (getting a high paying job) is not what instiutitons of higher education were meant for traditionally. Thinking of a college education this way is low brow. That might offend you, but it's true.

You are living 60+ years ago. Today, higher ed is more than a traditional liberal arts education, as we can see based on the direction of even elite colleges.

I'd rather think "low brow" and be practical than be an elite snob. You may actually not be offended by that because perhaps you are en elite snob, holding onto old antiquated traditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MIT has ug business majors.

Yep, and it's not an ivy. It's better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No business major offered at Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Columbia. Cornell the "land grant Ivy" is an exception, and even Penn's Wharton School grants the BS in economics presumably because they don't want to embarrass their graduates with a lowly business degree. Why don't most of the Ivies offer a business major?

Business is vocational. Like a trade.

Then I guess Harvard and the like graduate school of BUSINESS must be trade schools.

Yes, they are. I'm not sure why people can't understand that the approach to education as a means to an end (getting a high paying job) is not what instiutitons of higher education were meant for traditionally. Thinking of a college education this way is low brow. That might offend you, but it's true.

I agree but Ivy+ college admits are those who mostly care about job placements in tech, finance, and consulting. Most do not come from multigenerational wealth and are very practical and job focused. They are not intellectuals.

[Anonymous]

To throw a little (completely serious) practicality into this, most econ majors could use a semester of accounting. Just saying, a little context goes a long way when you are an intern listening in to conversations.

[Anonymous]

As pointed out most Ivies banked their large endowments based on their aristocratuc WASP alums. Most of those grads worked in the family business or made a phone call to a friend at the local Exclusive country club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My SLAC didn't/doesn't offer it, either . . . I don't think that many do. It's not part of a classic curriculum that focuses on theory and critical thinking skills, versus practical and technical skills (that most graduates from elite schools will pick up on the job).

I have a liberal arts undergrad degree (Phi Beta Kappa) and an MBA. I believe that business programs can offer classes that stretch exactly the same skills as liberal arts classes. Whenever smart people are completing graded work, they are honing their critical thinking skills. The business world's focus on being succinct matches better with how our computerized digital culture actually works today.

Finance classes are just a form of math class. There are definitely theoretical aspects of advanced Finance. Operations Management is very similar.

Accounting has theoretical and research applications as well. It evolves in response to other social phenomena and uses interpretive skills like law does. Law is arguably an older discipline with a tighter connection to the liberal arts.

Business Communications and Marketing have a lot in common with the skills developed in English Writing classes and other classes that focus on rhetoric, argumentation, etc.

International Business classes can be like "Area Studies" classes. Focusing on how to recognize the impact of economic and cultural differences, etc.

Organizational Behavior ties to psychology and sociology.

If you are in a business school with intellectual peers, you will be developing similar intellectual skills as a liberal arts major. I think it's true that you will likely be reading less and will not be spending a lot of time with great masterworks of cultural production. However, the modern university originally started out as education for ecclesiastical types. And for the elite, for whom a liberal arts education is a form of conspicuous leisure. These goals are less relevant today. Which is why liberal arts (humanities) majors are in decline. Kids want jobs. Majoring in business conveys that clearly. It's good branding and marketing strategy, lol.

I could have been a business major but I wanted to take a lot more esoteric classes that interested me. I haven't really used any of the knowledge gained from those classes, although I am considered knowledgeable about a wider range of subjects than a lot of my peers. This kind of background is mainly used to signal affluence (one of the original goals of a university education).

[Anonymous]

google investment banking targets before you get to fixated on "business degrees".

Goldman knows they can train employees. They prefer it to some extent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the reason Ivies are getting outpaced and outranked for integral STEM subjects like Engineering and Tech. They also know now they can't compete with these other schools so to them what's the point at this stage.

+1 ivies are still only really great because they are leaning on their historical elitism and white/wealthy legacies. It's also still better for liberal arts than anything practical like business or STEM fields.

Schools like MIT are much better for STEM. Even for undergrad in business, schools like NYU and USC are better; there are no real ivies in the top undergrad business schools.

Like MIT? Nah...there are more than that better than Ivies for STEM. Cornell is at least trying to have good Engineering and STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:google investment banking targets before you get to fixated on "business degrees".

Goldman knows they can train employees. They prefer it to some extent.

Sigh...here you go again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No business major offered at Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Columbia. Cornell the "land grant Ivy" is an exception, and even Penn's Wharton School grants the BS in economics presumably because they don't want to embarrass their graduates with a lowly business degree. Why don't most of the Ivies offer a business major?

Business is vocational. Like a trade.

Then I guess Harvard and the like graduate school of BUSINESS must be trade schools.

They are...well known ones but still...
Graduate school is a different beast, honey.

[Anonymous]

Business degrees are for athletes that go into sales for insurance, automobiles, etc.