Can a narcissist ever stay married and be a good enough spouse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Yes, the same happened to me and them turning into a stranger is exactly how it feels. And finding out that they’ve always been that person deep down is terrifying and made me question everything I knew about myself and life.

My STBX truly hates me, but when I am rational these days (which is rare- getting divorced from someone like this is extraordinarily taxing physically, mentally and emotionally), I can see that I have nothing to do with his hatred. He hates himself and he hates the shame he feels about his shortcomings, some of which are just the normal imperfections of being human and some of which were nurtured by his family of origin, and he is desperate to put it on anyone else.

Yes! The hatred is directed outwardly at us. It's helped a lot to understand that even though my stbx despises everything about me now (I mean wtf...he was sending loving texts right up to the day before he did an absolute 180....) he hates himself the most. I don't think he'll ever be able to face himself. Sometimes I feel sorry for him that he is so deeply broken. But then he lobs another grenade. Sorry you're going through it, too. Working in therapy to understand why I was drawn to him has helped a lot.

This is sooooo true! 1000%

[Anonymous]

The reason they treat you with such distain when you finally decide and have the confidence to leave it because you have finally held a mirror up to all their flaws and they also know that you’re going out into the world and potentially revealing them. Leaving at the end of 25 years, I posted earlier up thread, turned out to be the worst part of all the time I was ever with him. I’m still dealing with the aftermath, but hoping that with each passing year, I am farther and father away from him and all of the toxic behavior.

[Anonymous]

*disdain

[Anonymous]

I don’t think so.

-child and ex-wife of narcs

[Anonymous]

Wow. PPs, I was also just shocked at how he unleashed. I had no idea he was capable of such cruelty. He lives in a hell of his own making and I do not think he will ever recover. He is a therapist as well. He masked so well until it all fell apart. I also gave him too much too early and did not see red flags. Glad we are all away from these men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The other poster got me wondering…

Anyone out there who is married to a narcissist and doing well?

No.

We live separate lives and ignore each other.

He puts on a show for outsiders. It bewilders even our kids now. At the right age they’ll learn all about narcissism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The mask always drops.

It drops for the wife and kids, and maybe his in laws.

Never for neighbors, his parents, or work colleagues. They only see him in small doses.

Try day 4 of a vacation for unmasking or “disappearing to work.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are several types of narcissism, and I think you can live with people who have the neurotic (shy) kind - the ones who are not grandiose, don't seek drama or attention but are really insecure and feel a serious lack of confidence. It's not typically recognized as narcissism, but it's officially a form of the diagnosis.

I know several people living with that kind, and they're usually not too hard to live with. They need lots of reassurances.

Disagree.
The DARVO, the neglect, the willful ignorance, the sabotage, the lack of care, the lying, the yelling & blaming others, the total lack of responsibilities and accountability.
The one kid will start copying all tha maladaptive $hit to get their way.

Truly immature, underdeveloped communications and zero conflict resolution skills. Any comment or basic question is wrongly perceived as an attack and the DARVO games and stonewalling behind again and again and again. Nothing gets resolved. Unless the healthy partner does it solo. Oooh, and if they mess up, it’s all their fault. Because, after all, the narc didn’t partake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several types of narcissism, and I think you can live with people who have the neurotic (shy) kind - the ones who are not grandiose, don't seek drama or attention but are really insecure and feel a serious lack of confidence. It's not typically recognized as narcissism, but it's officially a form of the diagnosis.

I know several people living with that kind, and they're usually not too hard to live with. They need lots of reassurances.

Actually that is a true form of narcissism and much more dangerous to be in a relationship with than more obvious grandiose types. It’s called covert narcissism. And yes, from the outside they look meek or insecure or innocuous. On the inside it’s terrifying, because the second you take your foot of the gas of building them up and putting them on a pedestal and telling them they’re the best, they will turn on you.

Here’s a quick description:

“ A covert narcissist (also known as vulnerable narcissist) falls into a narcissistic personality disorder subtype that combines traits like self-centeredness and manipulative behavior with an introverted demeanor. Because covert narcissists seem so reserved or even modest, it can be easy to overlook their more problematic traits.”

https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/covert-narcissism

PP you replied to. I guess none of the people I know have that severe a form. None of them have "turned" on anyone.

Do you know them or the people in the relationship with them?

They are very motivated to keep up appearances to “outsiders.” Those in intimate relationships with them can be the ones who are being emotionally abused and controlled or the ones who are working overtime to prop them up. If you find yourself in acquaintance or friend or professional relationships with these kinds of people, beware, it is likely that you’re a highly empathic person who they’ve subconsciously or intentionally chosen to align themselves with. Beware of things like the silent treatment, sulking, withholding information, or deflecting blame, especially in a professional environment.

Yeah, don’t be their flying monkey and do their bully bidding for them. Nothing satisfies a narcissist more than converting others for their secret vendetta against someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No.

I'm starting to push back though because my life is a dumpster fire how much worse can it get? I mean at this point I've given up caring if we make it or not. I've totally given up.

I was planning to gray divorce but then one kid started behaving the same way and I divorced.

They truly don’t care about undermining their own kids, to hurt you.

She’s now obese from overeating krap during his custody time, lies about her bad grades, and wants to quit everything to stay home on screens. Which he gladly provides. And unlimited online shopping. They are becoming co-dependent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Yes, the same happened to me and them turning into a stranger is exactly how it feels. And finding out that they’ve always been that person deep down is terrifying and made me question everything I knew about myself and life.

My STBX truly hates me, but when I am rational these days (which is rare- getting divorced from someone like this is extraordinarily taxing physically, mentally and emotionally), I can see that I have nothing to do with his hatred. He hates himself and he hates the shame he feels about his shortcomings, some of which are just the normal imperfections of being human and some of which were nurtured by his family of origin, and he is desperate to put it on anyone else.

Very similar situation here.

It’s not that he hates me, it’s that he never loved me or the kids or is capable of loving or caring for someone. He only cares about himself, his ego, his image.

I don’t buy that “shame” angle therapists try pitch, to make you feel better. Narcissistic as don’t feel shame. They feel nothing or anger.

They are developmentally immature, hence the temper tantrums and lashing out or stonewalling. That’s all driven by their self centeredness and inability to regulate themselves once unmasked or in private. It’s not shame. They have no shame. If they did they wouldn’t be able to look at themselves in the mirror.

Instead, they’ll call you crazy. Instead of look in the mirror or hear about their very own behavior. They cannot handle hearing about their very own behavior. Not from you, not from their 10 yo. They will fly off the handle in a rage. Then sleep like a baby and wake up the next morning like nothing happened.

Truly psychotic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Yes, the same happened to me and them turning into a stranger is exactly how it feels. And finding out that they’ve always been that person deep down is terrifying and made me question everything I knew about myself and life.

My STBX truly hates me, but when I am rational these days (which is rare- getting divorced from someone like this is extraordinarily taxing physically, mentally and emotionally), I can see that I have nothing to do with his hatred. He hates himself and he hates the shame he feels about his shortcomings, some of which are just the normal imperfections of being human and some of which were nurtured by his family of origin, and he is desperate to put it on anyone else.

Yes! The hatred is directed outwardly at us. It's helped a lot to understand that even though my stbx despises everything about me now (I mean wtf...he was sending loving texts right up to the day before he did an absolute 180....) he hates himself the most. I don't think he'll ever be able to face himself. Sometimes I feel sorry for him that he is so deeply broken. But then he lobs another grenade. Sorry you're going through it, too. Working in therapy to understand why I was drawn to him has helped a lot.

Curious why your therapist thinks you were drawn to him?


Mine said because I’m an empath, give the benefit of the doubt too long, and am high functioning type A.

In my case the narc is asd and bipolar II and it was his maladaptive coping walls that made him a narc.
His mother also allowed him to be “stubborn” (understatement!) and do whatever he wanted, or else he’d be difficult and mean. He continues that behavior. She raised a monster. Throws a fit to get what he wants, easier on other person to be silent. While walking on eggshells BS. He loves for you to shut up and take it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several types of narcissism, and I think you can live with people who have the neurotic (shy) kind - the ones who are not grandiose, don't seek drama or attention but are really insecure and feel a serious lack of confidence. It's not typically recognized as narcissism, but it's officially a form of the diagnosis.

I know several people living with that kind, and they're usually not too hard to live with. They need lots of reassurances.

Actually that is a true form of narcissism and much more dangerous to be in a relationship with than more obvious grandiose types. It’s called covert narcissism. And yes, from the outside they look meek or insecure or innocuous. On the inside it’s terrifying, because the second you take your foot of the gas of building them up and putting them on a pedestal and telling them they’re the best, they will turn on you.

Here’s a quick description:

“ A covert narcissist (also known as vulnerable narcissist) falls into a narcissistic personality disorder subtype that combines traits like self-centeredness and manipulative behavior with an introverted demeanor. Because covert narcissists seem so reserved or even modest, it can be easy to overlook their more problematic traits.”

https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/covert-narcissism

God. This x 1000000. When I confronted my mild-mannered, quiet husband about his affair, I could not have imagined the hell that he then unleashed. It was terrifying and absolutely rattled me until a psychiatric nurse, friend of a friend, heard my story and suggested I read about covert narcissism. Putting a name to the behavior and personality traits has been really helpful in trying to navigate this divorce. As has therapy with someone who understands this kind of NPD. Once he was unmasked he decided he was out for blood. I'm still fielding questions from people who knew him who know how he has behaved since he initiated the divorce because they don't understand how such a "good guy" could have become so unhinged. I don't feel I owe anyone an explanation but he has strewn wreckage far and wide. All those years he was just sitting quietly in the corner, taking notes, seething. I ignored the red flags. That's on me. But in hindsight OMG they were there.

Sorry. What were the red flags

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Yes, the same happened to me and them turning into a stranger is exactly how it feels. And finding out that they’ve always been that person deep down is terrifying and made me question everything I knew about myself and life.

My STBX truly hates me, but when I am rational these days (which is rare- getting divorced from someone like this is extraordinarily taxing physically, mentally and emotionally), I can see that I have nothing to do with his hatred. He hates himself and he hates the shame he feels about his shortcomings, some of which are just the normal imperfections of being human and some of which were nurtured by his family of origin, and he is desperate to put it on anyone else.

Very similar situation here.

It’s not that he hates me, it’s that he never loved me or the kids or is capable of loving or caring for someone. He only cares about himself, his ego, his image.

I don’t buy that “shame” angle therapists try pitch, to make you feel better. Narcissistic as don’t feel shame. They feel nothing or anger.

They are developmentally immature, hence the temper tantrums and lashing out or stonewalling. That’s all driven by their self centeredness and inability to regulate themselves once unmasked or in private. It’s not shame. They have no shame. If they did they wouldn’t be able to look at themselves in the mirror.

Instead, they’ll call you crazy. Instead of look in the mirror or hear about their very own behavior. They cannot handle hearing about their very own behavior. Not from you, not from their 10 yo. They will fly off the handle in a rage. Then sleep like a baby and wake up the next morning like nothing happened.

Truly psychotic.

How did you two meet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mask always drops.

It drops for the wife and kids, and maybe his in laws.

Never for neighbors, his parents, or work colleagues. They only see him in small doses.

Try day 4 of a vacation for unmasking or “disappearing to work.”

Day 4 of a vacation isn’t bad! My kids used to keep bets on “when daddy would have to take a work call”, which we all knew was just him tapping out to go play on his phone or watch soccer while sitting near his laptop.

His record was 9 am on a playground in Asia after landing at 2 am that morning.

It wasn’t a vacation unless he’d yell at all of us in the hotel room and then snap into Dad of the Year mode by the time the elevator hit the lobby.