Can a narcissist ever stay married and be a good enough spouse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading these messages -- I'm terribly sorry for all who are going through this, but I'm also grateful to find that I am not alone. What I am reading mirrors what I am experiencing, and it is hell on earth.

A couple posters have mentioned therapy/therapists. Is there any posters in NOVA who can recommend a good therapist for this, especially in the case of a going-nowhere divorce from a narc?

Thank you.

Wish I had a rec for you.

Unfortunately it seems that many professionals are not only skeptical of the covert narcissist type but even unaware or vulnerable to their tactics. I came out of an attempt to seek help being told that I needed to adapt my expectations and communication style and that I wasn’t being sufficiently accommodating of my STBX’s different learning style. It set me back many years and was in its own way something that compounded the abuse I experienced.

I want to also add that if you anticipate a contentious divorce or custody fight, your spouse can and will use both your own therapy and their therapy against you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was with a covert malignant narcissist for almost 18 months. Mask dropped after about 9 months. It was the triangulation and belittling that I could not continue with. It slowly eroded me and the cognitive dissonance meant my poor system was in flight/flight for too long. I ended up physically sick and I have held down stressful senior jobs across countries so I thought I would be ok. I wasn’t. The physical toll can be high as well as the mental & emotional stress. I left him and I am doing so much better.

Timeline is kinda same for me and the mask dropped of my ex-gf when she didn't see mistake of her 26 year old in showing something inappropriate to my 13 year old daughter and attacked and belittled my daughter because she could not bear the shame. That's when I realized that she is a true narcissist who can't even leave kids alone in proving her point. It's hard to see some people could be so sick and care so much about their image that they would go to any level possible.

Agree.

They throw relationships away to protect their ego & image. It’s disgusting.

Wow, this is crazy PP that a narc would do that and won't even leave kids alone. The pain of bearing the shame is too much for them and that is also the reason for their downfall. I am glad you got out in time and protected your kids too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who was married to a narc for almost 20 years. He was a classic codependent and she was a vampire. She removed him from friends and family and made him stop all the activities that he had once loved. She thrived off making him feel bad about himself and was terribly abusive emotionally. Their marriage "worked" until he saw the light. It took years but he finally broke free. His family was so relieved when he left her.

Sometime, it takes too long and it ended up doing a lot of damage. She probably realized that it is easy to control and manipulate him and continued doing so without even realizing that she is also destroying herself in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these messages -- I'm terribly sorry for all who are going through this, but I'm also grateful to find that I am not alone. What I am reading mirrors what I am experiencing, and it is hell on earth.

A couple posters have mentioned therapy/therapists. Is there any posters in NOVA who can recommend a good therapist for this, especially in the case of a going-nowhere divorce from a narc?

Thank you.

Wish I had a rec for you.

Unfortunately it seems that many professionals are not only skeptical of the covert narcissist type but even unaware or vulnerable to their tactics. I came out of an attempt to seek help being told that I needed to adapt my expectations and communication style and that I wasn’t being sufficiently accommodating of my STBX’s different learning style. It set me back many years and was in its own way something that compounded the abuse I experienced.

I want to also add that if you anticipate a contentious divorce or custody fight, your spouse can and will use both your own therapy and their therapy against you.

Would a narcissist be able to use content from these therapies or just the fact of being in therapy? Are therapists every brought into court to make a statement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these messages -- I'm terribly sorry for all who are going through this, but I'm also grateful to find that I am not alone. What I am reading mirrors what I am experiencing, and it is hell on earth.

A couple posters have mentioned therapy/therapists. Is there any posters in NOVA who can recommend a good therapist for this, especially in the case of a going-nowhere divorce from a narc?

Thank you.

Wish I had a rec for you.

Unfortunately it seems that many professionals are not only skeptical of the covert narcissist type but even unaware or vulnerable to their tactics. I came out of an attempt to seek help being told that I needed to adapt my expectations and communication style and that I wasn’t being sufficiently accommodating of my STBX’s different learning style. It set me back many years and was in its own way something that compounded the abuse I experienced.

I want to also add that if you anticipate a contentious divorce or custody fight, your spouse can and will use both your own therapy and their therapy against you.

Would a narcissist be able to use content from these therapies or just the fact of being in therapy? Are therapists ever brought into court to make a statement?

This is complicated and probably very specific. Regarding court, we have only been able to subpoena frequency and existence of visits and a psychological diagnosis from other providers.

How my STBX used therapy:

-secretly went to therapy and shared what appears to be a very distorted/edited history of our shared life. Maybe with some kind of manipulative future plans but more likely just to get validation and supply
-used the fact that he went to therapy to show during the custody evaluation that he was in touch with his feelings and “doing the work”
-I refused therapy when he begged for couples counseling the day he filed for divorce; he is trying to use this against me (but I still feel strongly that you do not go to therapy with a person like this)
-used the vocabulary and therapeutic language he picked up from his therapy first to manipulate me during our marriage and then to manipulate psychological testing and conversations with the custody evaluator

Basically someone with this level of disorder is going to use anything in their favor and against the healthy person. You have to remember that they’ve made it through decades of their lives using people and situations to their advantage, and with very little concern for the gap between their made-up version of events vs. the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who was married to a narc for almost 20 years. He was a classic codependent and she was a vampire. She removed him from friends and family and made him stop all the activities that he had once loved. She thrived off making him feel bad about himself and was terribly abusive emotionally. Their marriage "worked" until he saw the light. It took years but he finally broke free. His family was so relieved when he left her.

Sometime, it takes too long and it ended up doing a lot of damage. She probably realized that it is easy to control and manipulate him and continued doing so without even realizing that she is also destroying herself in the process.

Sounds like he was enmeshed with his family and finally got to return to mommy's nest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these messages -- I'm terribly sorry for all who are going through this, but I'm also grateful to find that I am not alone. What I am reading mirrors what I am experiencing, and it is hell on earth.

A couple posters have mentioned therapy/therapists. Is there any posters in NOVA who can recommend a good therapist for this, especially in the case of a going-nowhere divorce from a narc?

Thank you.

Wish I had a rec for you.

Unfortunately it seems that many professionals are not only skeptical of the covert narcissist type but even unaware or vulnerable to their tactics. I came out of an attempt to seek help being told that I needed to adapt my expectations and communication style and that I wasn’t being sufficiently accommodating of my STBX’s different learning style. It set me back many years and was in its own way something that compounded the abuse I experienced.

I want to also add that if you anticipate a contentious divorce or custody fight, your spouse can and will use both your own therapy and their therapy against you.

Would a narcissist be able to use content from these therapies or just the fact of being in therapy? Are therapists ever brought into court to make a statement?

This is complicated and probably very specific. Regarding court, we have only been able to subpoena frequency and existence of visits and a psychological diagnosis from other providers.

How my STBX used therapy:

-secretly went to therapy and shared what appears to be a very distorted/edited history of our shared life. Maybe with some kind of manipulative future plans but more likely just to get validation and supply
-used the fact that he went to therapy to show during the custody evaluation that he was in touch with his feelings and “doing the work”
-I refused therapy when he begged for couples counseling the day he filed for divorce; he is trying to use this against me (but I still feel strongly that you do not go to therapy with a person like this)
-used the vocabulary and therapeutic language he picked up from his therapy first to manipulate me during our marriage and then to manipulate psychological testing and conversations with the custody evaluator

Basically someone with this level of disorder is going to use anything in their favor and against the healthy person. You have to remember that they’ve made it through decades of their lives using people and situations to their advantage, and with very little concern for the gap between their made-up version of events vs. the truth.

This is so similar to what happened to me. In the end it was the constant lying and living in separate realities that made it too damaging to continue trying to interact with him. Everything was my fault. And the only reality that mattered what what he said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these messages -- I'm terribly sorry for all who are going through this, but I'm also grateful to find that I am not alone. What I am reading mirrors what I am experiencing, and it is hell on earth.

A couple posters have mentioned therapy/therapists. Is there any posters in NOVA who can recommend a good therapist for this, especially in the case of a going-nowhere divorce from a narc?

Thank you.

Wish I had a rec for you.

Unfortunately it seems that many professionals are not only skeptical of the covert narcissist type but even unaware or vulnerable to their tactics. I came out of an attempt to seek help being told that I needed to adapt my expectations and communication style and that I wasn’t being sufficiently accommodating of my STBX’s different learning style. It set me back many years and was in its own way something that compounded the abuse I experienced.

I want to also add that if you anticipate a contentious divorce or custody fight, your spouse can and will use both your own therapy and their therapy against you.

Would a narcissist be able to use content from these therapies or just the fact of being in therapy? Are therapists ever brought into court to make a statement?

This is complicated and probably very specific. Regarding court, we have only been able to subpoena frequency and existence of visits and a psychological diagnosis from other providers.

How my STBX used therapy:

-secretly went to therapy and shared what appears to be a very distorted/edited history of our shared life. Maybe with some kind of manipulative future plans but more likely just to get validation and supply
-used the fact that he went to therapy to show during the custody evaluation that he was in touch with his feelings and “doing the work”
-I refused therapy when he begged for couples counseling the day he filed for divorce; he is trying to use this against me (but I still feel strongly that you do not go to therapy with a person like this)
-used the vocabulary and therapeutic language he picked up from his therapy first to manipulate me during our marriage and then to manipulate psychological testing and conversations with the custody evaluator

Basically someone with this level of disorder is going to use anything in their favor and against the healthy person. You have to remember that they’ve made it through decades of their lives using people and situations to their advantage, and with very little concern for the gap between their made-up version of events vs. the truth.

This is so similar to what happened to me. In the end it was the constant lying and living in separate realities that made it too damaging to continue trying to interact with him. Everything was my fault. And the only reality that mattered what what he said.

I think you’ve said something valuable here. Anyone contemplating “can I hold on for a while longer” or “will he change”: the better use of your energy is to build a rock-solid support system, get your finances locked down, make sure you are in geographic proximity to friends and family, and build a really robust life for your kids outside of your home/nuclear family.

It could blow up at any time and your goal should be to do your best to bomb-proof yourself and your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ "Are" there any posters in NOVA who can recommend......

Find a trauma therapist. You are living with Ongoing Trauma Syndrome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these messages -- I'm terribly sorry for all who are going through this, but I'm also grateful to find that I am not alone. What I am reading mirrors what I am experiencing, and it is hell on earth.

A couple posters have mentioned therapy/therapists. Is there any posters in NOVA who can recommend a good therapist for this, especially in the case of a going-nowhere divorce from a narc?

Thank you.

Wish I had a rec for you.

Unfortunately it seems that many professionals are not only skeptical of the covert narcissist type but even unaware or vulnerable to their tactics. I came out of an attempt to seek help being told that I needed to adapt my expectations and communication style and that I wasn’t being sufficiently accommodating of my STBX’s different learning style. It set me back many years and was in its own way something that compounded the abuse I experienced.

I want to also add that if you anticipate a contentious divorce or custody fight, your spouse can and will use both your own therapy and their therapy against you.

Would a narcissist be able to use content from these therapies or just the fact of being in therapy? Are therapists ever brought into court to make a statement?

This is complicated and probably very specific. Regarding court, we have only been able to subpoena frequency and existence of visits and a psychological diagnosis from other providers.

How my STBX used therapy:

-secretly went to therapy and shared what appears to be a very distorted/edited history of our shared life. Maybe with some kind of manipulative future plans but more likely just to get validation and supply
-used the fact that he went to therapy to show during the custody evaluation that he was in touch with his feelings and “doing the work”
-I refused therapy when he begged for couples counseling the day he filed for divorce; he is trying to use this against me (but I still feel strongly that you do not go to therapy with a person like this)
-used the vocabulary and therapeutic language he picked up from his therapy first to manipulate me during our marriage and then to manipulate psychological testing and conversations with the custody evaluator

Basically someone with this level of disorder is going to use anything in their favor and against the healthy person. You have to remember that they’ve made it through decades of their lives using people and situations to their advantage, and with very little concern for the gap between their made-up version of events vs. the truth.

This is so similar to what happened to me. In the end it was the constant lying and living in separate realities that made it too damaging to continue trying to interact with him. Everything was my fault. And the only reality that mattered what what he said.

I think you’ve said something valuable here. Anyone contemplating “can I hold on for a while longer” or “will he change”: the better use of your energy is to build a rock-solid support system, get your finances locked down, make sure you are in geographic proximity to friends and family, and build a really robust life for your kids outside of your home/nuclear family.

It could blow up at any time and your goal should be to do your best to bomb-proof yourself and your kids.

Agree

[Anonymous]

If you're divorcing a narc, I'd move out and officially separate and then wait at least a year before you engage in settlement talks with them. Otherwise, you're very likely to agree to settlement terms that you'll regret once you've got some emotional distance from the narc. My sense is that people married to narcs don't realize how much their thinking is clouded by the narc and it takes time to really get a good perspective on the situation. And ideally, do a lump sum payment to the narc so that you aren't required to keep interacting with them for years and years. You need a clean break and that won't happen if they are lurking around for decades collecting your money every month. My friend divorced about two years ago and he can now see that she was controlling him during the divorce negotiations and he allowed himself to be taken advantage of by her. As I see it, he signed those papers when he wasn't in his right mind, but no court will undo it now.

[Anonymous]

No local therapist recs but I would say to check out Dr Ramani and Richard Grannon on You Tube. Both are specialists in narc abuse. Ramani is a qualified psychologist, not sure about Grannon but he has been through the abuse himself. Both have several helpful videos on identifying and healing from narc abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're divorcing a narc, I'd move out and officially separate and then wait at least a year before you engage in settlement talks with them. Otherwise, you're very likely to agree to settlement terms that you'll regret once you've got some emotional distance from the narc. My sense is that people married to narcs don't realize how much their thinking is clouded by the narc and it takes time to really get a good perspective on the situation. And ideally, do a lump sum payment to the narc so that you aren't required to keep interacting with them for years and years. You need a clean break and that won't happen if they are lurking around for decades collecting your money every month. My friend divorced about two years ago and he can now see that she was controlling him during the divorce negotiations and he allowed himself to be taken advantage of by her. As I see it, he signed those papers when he wasn't in his right mind, but no court will undo it now.

Your “friend” sounds like a narcissist who regrets giving their ex the money they deserve from their lifetime together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was with a covert malignant narcissist for almost 18 months. Mask dropped after about 9 months. It was the triangulation and belittling that I could not continue with. It slowly eroded me and the cognitive dissonance meant my poor system was in flight/flight for too long. I ended up physically sick and I have held down stressful senior jobs across countries so I thought I would be ok. I wasn’t. The physical toll can be high as well as the mental & emotional stress. I left him and I am doing so much better.

Timeline is kinda same for me and the mask dropped of my ex-gf when she didn't see mistake of her 26 year old in showing something inappropriate to my 13 year old daughter and attacked and belittled my daughter because she could not bear the shame. That's when I realized that she is a true narcissist who can't even leave kids alone in proving her point. It's hard to see some people could be so sick and care so much about their image that they would go to any level possible.

Agree.

They throw relationships away to protect their ego & image. It’s disgusting.

Wow, this is crazy PP that a narc would do that and won't even leave kids alone. The pain of bearing the shame is too much for them and that is also the reason for their downfall. I am glad you got out in time and protected your kids too.

Their kids, and their marriage, are props for their Good Guy image.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're divorcing a narc, I'd move out and officially separate and then wait at least a year before you engage in settlement talks with them. Otherwise, you're very likely to agree to settlement terms that you'll regret once you've got some emotional distance from the narc. My sense is that people married to narcs don't realize how much their thinking is clouded by the narc and it takes time to really get a good perspective on the situation. And ideally, do a lump sum payment to the narc so that you aren't required to keep interacting with them for years and years. You need a clean break and that won't happen if they are lurking around for decades collecting your money every month. My friend divorced about two years ago and he can now see that she was controlling him during the divorce negotiations and he allowed himself to be taken advantage of by her. As I see it, he signed those papers when he wasn't in his right mind, but no court will undo it now.

Wtf?

Move out and wait a year, but then you’ll have emotional distance and regret something?

Divorce is 50-50 assets and child custody time. Make peace with that. Hope they walk back their time, as they find new targets who like their victim talk.